X-Men: Apocalypse (2016)

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Lanx

Lanx

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I'm pretty sure it's either this or the story b4 with the shitty Cassandra Nova, is where the Xavier bashing starts, i mean if you think he's being painted as evil by killing his twin in hi mommas womb.

Then i think after them painting him as the evil for Danger Room, they did Deadly Genesis where they retconned that when the OG xmen lost to Krakatoa and Xavier took Morias students, mind wrecked them into a DBZ style time chamber to learned months of training in a few hours, send them off to Krakatoa, loose have them all die(seemingly), then send in the second Xmen team (w/ wolverine, storm), mind wipe everyones memories of these new students and wiping Scotts memories of having a second brother.

This is also where Scott, is so disgusted w/ Xavier he kicks him out of the X-mansion.
 
j00t

j00t

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yeah, i mean granted, i don't like the retcon angle of, "new evidence shows that mother theresa WAS ACTUALLY THE ANTI-CHRIST!" it IS lazy writing. that being said, there was precedence before all that stuff that checks and balances are in place for a reason and that there were a few decisions charles made that were seemingly against his teachings but were a means to an end. i mean, like, nothing overt, but for a long time hints were dropped very subtly that charles might need to dial it down a little.
 
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a_skeleton_02

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The best part of Xavier dying was my boy Red Skull graverobbing his memorial and stealing his brain grafting it to his own then using it to take over the world so he can concentration camp some mutants
 
Void

Void

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I'm with Gavin on this one. The problem is that *nothing* in comics is hinted at for years, let alone decades. The moment a new writer/team takes over, you might as well forget about whatever path they might have been leading the characters toward. Not to mention, if they really did have this awesome idea to slowly make Xavier into a bad guy, you can bet that someone would have skipped all this build-up and just done it in some super-duper crossover event that very year they thought of it. You can say that it was hinted at (Xavier being a dick that is), but that's just hindsight coloring your view. They could have just as easily taken an entirely different path with Xavier and it would have "fit" with what we knew of the past too.

Now granted, I haven't really read a comic since the early '90s, so I'm not up with anything at all recent, but prior to that Xavier was exactly as Gavin described, the "Captain America" of mutants. I realize Wolverine still got away with killing fools, but who was the one trying to get him to change the most? Xavier. If he didn't really give a fuck, why reign Wolverine in? Anyway, none of that really matters, because as pointed out, ALL of this evidence is just being retconned in. If there was a panel from 40 years ago with the Danger Room speaking that was then just ignored, I'd be blown the fuck away, but there isn't. Any one of us could concoct a story similar to that one which doesn't require any prior evidence. We could just as easily concoct one that keeps Xavier as the moral compass of the X-Men too. They just chose not to, and whether that is to "kill" the franchise or just to stir up sales, I certainly don't know. But it is terrible writing all the same.

I'm of the opinion that you can't truly have the X-Men without Xavier. A good-intentioned Xavier, at that. Sure you can have some detours where Magneto or someone else takes over for awhile, but Xavier deserves to be the heart and soul of the team. Fuck them for changing that.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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I'm ok with Xavier making a mistake and having it backfire horribly like the plot of Xmen 3. Which was a decent idea stuck in a terrible story with terrible execution. But yeah, the idea that Xavier came across a fantastically powerful mutant, and the only way to help them control their power was with psychic blocks in their head, but it was a delicate procedure that he didn't do quite right that led to a split personality forming and eventually getting out and going nuts. Or him suppressing his own negativity so thoroughly that the split personality thing happens to him which led to the formation of Onslaught. I think they did the Xavier's dark side escaping plot in Xmen TAS. There was also an episode in Wolverine and the X-Men where the only way to deal with a mutant who couldn't control his incredibly destructive powers was to give him back to the MRD, and while it wasn't Xavier who made that decision, it would have been interesting to see what decision he made in that situation.

But yeah, just to repeat it for the umpteenth time, retconning Xavier to have been a jackass all along is trash.
 
Lanx

Lanx

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Vvoid_sl said:
Now granted, I haven't really read a comic since the early '90s, so I'm not up with anything at all recent,

I'm of the opinion that you can't truly have the X-Men without Xavier. A good-intentioned Xavier, at that. Sure you can have some detours where Magneto or someone else takes over for awhile, but Xavier deserves to be the heart and soul of the team. Fuck them for changing that.
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Xavier hasn't been in the comics (except to bash him and his legacy) for a good 10 years. Theres been a major shift and focus on Magneto, turned good/savior, Mentor to Scott, the one that saves the world.

Fuck there's a Magneto series that leads all the way to Secret War.

Probably the most screen time he's gotten was Onslaught, after that... seems like they're content w/ painting him as an Elitist douche w/ values mirroring more Magneto than Ghandi, he was just repressing it for better PR.
 
Izo

Izo

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rrr_img_104187.jpg

Huhuhuhu
 
Dyvim

Dyvim

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Gavinmad_sl said:
Xavier was every bit as much of the moral backbone of the X-men side of the Marvel Universe as Captain America was for the Avenger side. Having him start mind wiping bad guys is about as realistic as Cap condoning waterboarding.
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Well hes America after all

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filandiel

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So imdb has an article that says the blob is in the new movie, and casually states that storm, magneto, angel and psylocke are the horsemen of apocalypse...this reduces my excitement for this movie, angel works if they do a fight where his wings get broken, but magneto never had a use for apocalypse, and certainly wouldn't be an underling.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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We've known that those 4 are the horsemen for months now. It seems pretty obvious that Magneto gets involved with Apocalypse because he thinks they share an ideology, but then once he finds out more he'll realize Apocalypse cares as little about mutants as he does about humans and he'll turn on him.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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There's also about 0 chance they'd win without him if they come up with some way to nullify Quicksilver. Which they'll have to do because they made him so goddamn absurd.

Also, are the horsemen in the comics generally willing partners or does Apoc just fuck with their minds?
 
bixxby

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He puts his evil inside of them. or something. I'm reading Uncanny X-force someone recommended earlier and that's what he did to Angel/Archangel.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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That's what he always does but my guess is for the movie it will be subtler. Like he'll be influencing them, but they won't be full on slaves, which will inevitably allow them all to turn on him. Probably Magneto last as he stubbornly refuses to see the truth about Apocalypse until it's thrown right into his face.
 
j00t

j00t

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Historically, the horsemen have been willing. But wherever the story calls for a known character to become a horseman, they are manipulated/controlled. I think sentry admitted to being a willing horseman? But I don't know the backstory on that.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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I admit most of my experience with his horsemen comes from the cartoon where they're always brainwashed slaves
 
Lanx

Lanx

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Uncanny xmen revealed apoc uses something called the death seed or apocalypse seed, it's made out of celestial tech, and the purpose of it is to like help ascend a human race or something, basically its what kinda makes apocalypse (since he made that deal w/ the celestials) and what he uses to make horsemen.
 
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HUH_sl

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They'll probably just have Apocalypse kill Quicksilver. It makes Apoc seem badass, it removes a OP as hell character that just causes story problems, and it gives Magneto a turning point to switch sides.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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Quicksilver dies pushing Stan Lee out of the way of a slow moving steam roller.

Stan then pees on the flattened streak of guts.
 
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