X:Rebirth

Denaut

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I have been following this game for a couple years, they finally put out a release date, Nov. 15th! The new videos they released look downright amazing. X is a empire building space sim, I've poured hundreds of hours into the X3 games and Rebirth looks massively superior in every way. Really can't wait.


 

Furry

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X games are fun. Strangely, I like to play them while playing eve. That said, when they're new they're typically buggy turds. Hoping all the delays were to make this relatively stable, but dont consider my breath held.
 

bytes

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A definite pre-order for me, even though i'm still skeptical about the one, upgradeable ship deal. But who knows if that's going to be the case forever, the X games have a very robust modding community.
 

Furry

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A definite pre-order for me, even though i'm still skeptical about the one, upgradeable ship deal. But who knows if that's going to be the case forever, the X games have a very robust modding community.
one ship? Thats a huge departure.
 

bytes

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Yes, that is going to be one of the biggest changes in the game. You can't switch over to another ship whenever you like, instead you have your "mothership" and you can upgrade and expand it over the course of the game. I think you're still able to own additional ships, but can't pilot them directly.

However, in one of the videos they show the player taking control of one of his drones, so i hope the underlying mechanics that will allow you to switch ships are there. And who knows, maybe it's going to be alot of fun either way.
 

Denaut

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I actually like what they did with the "1 ship" approach, it is honestly what I would have done if I were in their position. If I might indulge a bit I will explain what I think their reasoning was.

Roughly speaking, in X3 (Reunion, TC, and AP), there were 3 general classes of ships; fighters, corvettes, and capitals. The problem was that even though these types of ships should serve incredibly different roles, due to either design or tech limitations, even the smallest fighter and the largest capital were basically the same. The only thing that really changed were models and stats (or stats on the equipment). What they did in rebirth was really separate these out as unique entities much better suited for their specific purpose.

Capitals are no longer pilot-able because now they are true capitals, huge lumbering behemoths that are very customizable and bristling with surface elements. The problem with capitals from X3 is that they were too much like normal ships due to the constraints placed upon them to keep them at least semi-usable as a player ship. By removing this Egosoft was able to take capitals in a new and much more distinct direction, one that is much, much better and fills a previously unoccupied place in the universe (something between a station and a player ship).

Fighters were changed for essentially the same reason only on the other end of the spectrum. They became drones which are small, unmanned, specialized, and semi-disposable. That is kind of how fighters are in X3 which is why players don't usually tool around in them for the whole game. BUT, piloting fighters is actually quite fun, so player's retain the ability to personally control one via VR, which has the added bonus of providing far more tactical flexibility. Player's are now able to "spend" fighters (they personally fly) to accomplish goals instead of the binary choice of a loading screen.

Ultimately they kept the "Corvette" type in the realm of player ship. This makes sense as players usually selected a corvette as their player ship anyway as they are a nice balance of speed, power, and defense. Somewhat unfortunately you only get one for X:R but it comes with a lot more options. I always ended up flying the same ship for most of the game anyway so I'd much rather have an awesome customizable ship.

I actually really hated flying most ships. People talk about how awesome being able to fly every ship was but honestly out of hundreds of ships you really only flew a handful anyway, usually whatever was "best" at a particular attribute. For example, there are many scout ships, but most people just used a Kestrel because it was the fastest. For me keeping track of and maintaining my handful of "player" ships (the main one and then the handful I used to perform specific tasks) was a giant pain and I am glad to see it go.

Hopefully, in the future, I wouldn't mind a small selection of really awesome, really customizable player ships instead of JUST one, but in this case more isn't better; better is better.
 

Helldiver

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Capitals are no longer pilot-able because now they are true capitals, huge lumbering behemoths that are very customizable and bristling with surface elements. The problem with capitals from X3 is that they were too much like normal ships due to the constraints placed upon them to keep them at least semi-usable as a player ship. By removing this Egosoft was able to take capitals in a new and much more distinct direction, one that is much, much better and fills a previously unoccupied place in the universe (something between a station and a player ship).
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And that's the deal breaker for me, I'll pass.

I want a goddamned game (MMO, Sandbox, Single player, what ever) where I get to fly a frigate that looks like this:

Vaygr_Assault_Frigate.jpg


Note the distinct con tower. Without that, ships just don't have personality for me. One reason why I never got into Eve, all the ships pretty much look like flying turds. Fuck asymmetrical random ship designs. I just can't understand how people can like that sort of design.

I mean look at this thing

eve-8kship-epl-708.jpg


Looks like what I left in the toilet yesterday.
 

Furry

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what? Sure eve has its terrible ships. That said, theres some awesome ships in eve too. Phantasm, SOCT battlecruiser, hyperion, Hel.

You use homeworld as an example for what a ship should look like, and I'll admit the taidan empire has some mighty sexy ships. But lets not forget how fucking ugly the kushani ships were. Eve ships also have plenty of love and detail in them to make them distinct. The fighters even have a little man inside them flying it. But what I really fail to grasp is how this argument has anything to do with x-rebirth. My personal beef is even if they are limiting what ships you can fly to make capitals more meaningful, why does that stop you from switching ships? I could live with flying just the smaller to medium sized ships, but not being able to fly anything but one ship really kinda hurts the immersion. I really hope a modder fixes it (Im sure itll be #1 on the to do list.)
 

Denaut

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My personal beef is even if they are limiting what ships you can fly to make capitals more meaningful, why does that stop you from switching ships?
Cost, basically. The player ships are more than just NPC ships you can manually control, upping the cost of them quite dramatically.
 

Tuco

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startedplaying X3:Albion last night. Not sure about it yet. I felt pretty inconsequential in the only big fight I was in so I tried making money in the stock market. 12mill later I wanted to set up some sector/universal traders. So I fly to PTNI HQ and go to buy a transport ship so I can give it the Mk3 Trading module and I can't because I don't have the faction with them. Fuck.

The game is so slow, so tedious, so unintuitive and I'm not sure where the payoff is. I guess like any sandbox game I have to decide what I want to do and then figure out how to get there. If I had to pick I'd want to amass a huge armada and then go conquer sectors ala Mount and Blade.. But I don't even know if I can do that in this game?
 

bytes

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You can do that, absolutely. If you want to, you can field a bunch of capitals, some carriers for example with a couple of dozen M3s on board, all of which you can outfit/fly yourself if you want to. There really is no limit, you can recreate every single factory, combine them to massive complexes and produce ships, missiles or tradegoods.

The game's extremley hard to get into though, you need some time and even effort maybe to get a grasp on it. Really, it's pretty much Dwarf Fortress in space, in terms of accessibility. And about you feeling inconsequential, that is no surprise. Albion pits some of the biggest factions against each other in a full scale war, there are a lot more ships engaged in combat at all times then in the previous games.

Honestly, i would wait for Rebirth at this point, if you haven't played the X games before. It seems they're really trying to make it easier to get into it, the UI alone is a big turn-off for most people in the current games.

In regards to the single ship thing, i'm willing to give Egosoft the benefit of the doubt. These guys seem pretty passionate about what they're doing and they know it's a niche product, i don't think they would risk to alienate all their longterm fans with something that ultimately feels unsatisfying.
 

Brikker

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I had to watch a bunch of youtube tutorials before I started playing X3 a few years ago (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=297924). Once I watched those, I had a pretty decent grasp on the game and was then able to mod it a ton (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216690). This was for the Terran Conflict iteration of the game. Once I had some good mods and had learned the game (which is a decently steep curve, I'll admit), it was a ton of fun.

I will definitely be playing this new one.
 

Dashivax

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The game is so slow, so tedious, so unintuitive and I'm not sure where the payoff is. I guess like any sandbox game I have to decide what I want to do and then figure out how to get there. If I had to pick I'd want to amass a huge armada and then go conquer sectors ala Mount and Blade.. But I don't even know if I can do that in this game?
Last time I played you need mods to truly capture systems and make them yours.

You are right the game is tedious. I usually try to make a huge sector conquering fleet too. You need two things really, a fuckload of money and the right production capabilities to outfit all of your ships. The problem I always run into is, the best way to make money in X is setup a bunch of universe traders and let them go at it, but to make it faster you run the game at 10x speed and go afk, and if that is what I am going to do then why not just cheat and give myself a ton of money. So I usually end up cheating and just buying the ships and that gets old fast, but the alternative seems like cheating anyway so I dunno. I'm hoping they take the 10x speed mechanic out of the game or make it not necessary to actually make money while playing the game.
 

Azziane_sl

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I've logged a few dozen hours in Reunion and TC. I always start by trading because it reminds me of Elite. I do that until I'm outfitted with some of the critical systems (trading MK III and such). Then I capture pirate ships. That part is quite fun and it takes some getting used to (don't want to say skill since it's mostly about controlling your damage). Once I have 4-5 wingmen I start to hunt down the one ship I want to pilot, cap it, and that's usually where I get bored. The whole station building is not fun to me. Way too grindy.

Also I need to be able to land on freakin planets. Instead of new gfx engines or other gimmicks I wish they would work on making the universe truly seamless.
 

Denaut

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Also I need to be able to land on freakin planets. Instead of new gfx engines or other gimmicks I wish they would work on making the universe truly seamless.
I would think this is very out of scope for something like X, at least right now with the team size they have. Luckily their new engine scales incredibly into the future by requiring a 64-Bit OS and a multi-core CPU. Most games are very limited by being capped at a single core and running a 32-Bit binary.
 

Sludig

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So I have never played x. Got all 3 of the X3's on steam sale. Problem is sounds like each one would be a huge time sink? (I played countless hours on Escape Velocity and similiar old sandbox space games) I don't have the most time anymore.

Due to their age, should I perhaps only play the newest x3, or would it be worthwhile to try and find the time to go through all 3 of them?