X:Rebirth

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Wrathcaster

Was going to post something about the console references in the files, but seems it's been covered. I was never one of the X3 fanbois- mainly because I had no idea wtf X3 was other than some obscure space sim. Really sorry I missed this series when it was ongoing, am really confused as to how I missed it. I was very interested in it when I started reading about Rebirth through gaming mags, but I've been burned too much lately to buy something on release so I waited for this one. So glad I did, especially after all I've read about what's been done to the game. I was, however, a bit skeptical since I knew these games were part of an extreme niche that maybe just because it wasn't impossibly difficult and complex the diehard fans hated it, so I pirated the shit just to see how it was. Jesus christ. The bugs are horrible, and even if I could chock that up to a pirate release, the design decisions are absolutely atrocious, even coming from someone who hasn't had real experience with the previous games.

I decided after that to try out X3, first pirated, then after I found it interesting I bought a copy to show the company which of their products were worth anything and am completely fascinated by what I've been playing. I know that I don't understand the half of the lack of complexity and the uttery bullshittery of what's been done, especially as it would be from the viewpoint of a longtime fan, but even I can tell how incredibly Egosoft fucked this up. I have no idea how they could possibly think translating this game to consoles would ever work... It's absolutely mindblowing. This is the goddamned farthest thing from a console title possible, and as I understand it now Rebirth was intended to be something largely unrelated? Or even part of a whole different and new title series? It fails spectacularly either way. If this was an arcade space shooter with trading elements on a console, I would consider it interesting, but absolutely atrocious from a gameplay standpoint. Having played even a bit of the last title, I realize how much a travesty of a shit abortion this filth is.

On another note, I am absolutely digging X3, despite the massively byzantine learning curve I am actually doing pretty well after 40 or so hours. I know it's been around forever and I also understand that the mod community basically has kept the series alive for ages so I was wondering if there's any veteran players who can advise on some decent mods to really improve the experience. I started as humble trader and largely have the hang of the economy and issuing remote orders, but the remote best buying/selling is not working at all for me, and it seems that unless I use my trade ships as miners or issue all their trade-related orders manually, I can't make a profit. Also, I haven't involved myself in the command aspect of combat hardly at all, and the thing I look forward to the most is assembling a respectable fleet and setting up some cool battles, but I can already see from the way orders are issued and how you deal with ships you're not piloting that there's going to be major issues with getting the AI to behave properly.

I'm sure there's some X3 vets here who can advise, are there some must have mods for the things I've mentioned above, or is there something I'm missing entirely? I know there's gobs of material on the forums and throughout the interwebs on this shit, but a ton of the google results are 2+ years old and I'm not really sure what applies, or what's even feasible after all the patches that have been released.

I'd really appreciate any help on this stuff. As it is, I'm still having a blast with the game that they should have sequel'd, rather than the half-breed console abomination that they sold some of the most die hard dedicated fans, it seems, in all of gamerdom.
 
W

Wrathcaster

It isbasicallythe same game... just at the moment very broken, unbalanced, and many of the UI elements need lots of work.

I actually quite like the controller support and find the game overall much easier to play with a controller than X3 was with a M/K.

Now I wouldn't recommend anyone buy it right now, and in fact told every one of my friend's that asked me about it to wait, but I find myself still playing the game when I come home and look at my steam list, even with the XCOM expansion sitting there waiting for me. I'm a little crazy though.
Sorry to double post but I can't let this go. You like the controller support despite the fact that the menu and interface system is completely unintuitive (or in other words clusterfuck) solely because of it? You know that huge numbers of joystick users are reporting not being able to use their hardware at all... In a space sim where you spend vast amounts of time flying around in a space ship? You like that all the menus in game are abbreviated for the convenience of an xbox controller, even though it's a PC exclusive title and the majority of people playing it use mouse/keyboard, since, you know, it's a PC only game?

Xbox controller support, and controller-oriented design decisions are a huge part of what made this game the fucking wreck it is UI wise, which is monumental in a game where the UI has such a huge impact on quality of gameplay and overall flow. To be fair, console controller support isn't really apt to describe this title. This is a console controller game with mouse/keyboard support, and a good portion of the horribleness emanating from this doesn't just concern the overall gameplay, but the shit-poor way they integrate it with the UI and control scheme.
 

Gorestabb

Bronze Knight of the Realm
376
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I'd really appreciate any help on this stuff.
I've got about 200 hours clocked up on X3 so far, and have quite a sizeable empire.

The thing that really jump started my earning was getting a 1MW shield factory. So long as you set it to sell at a reasonable price NPCs will flock from systems far and wide to buy your stuff. So I'd say a good goal is get yourself a 1MW shield factory, then set about making it completely automated. Buy yourself haulers to get the components for you, keeping an eye on how many jumps they take to buy them (cost vs aquisition time).

Then depending on component availability set about building the component factories yourself, or create further 1MW shield factories. At the moment I think I've got 5 shield factories, all churning out 1MW shields, and I'm still no where near meeting demand.

The nice thing about that too is that you'll earn a good amount of money, with little input from you, while you're out exploring the universe.
 

Furry

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Yea, im about as rabid fanboi as they get with x3. I took this game straight up the butt.

As for x3 mods, at first, I really wouldn't say theres any ~must have~ mods. That said, theres some really good ones. The rebalance mod makes the generic game better in most ways. Im also a fan of the trade scripts. No idea which is best atm, but theres a bunch, and let you set up additional trader ships a lot better/more efficiently. Its a huge must to avoid tons of micro when you get into the 100+ ships range.

After that, the only mods I go for are the total conversion type mods. star wars/homeworld ect ect conversion mods.
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
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Sorry to double post but I can't let this go. You like the controller support despite the fact that the menu and interface system is completely unintuitive (or in other words clusterfuck) solely because of it? You know that huge numbers of joystick users are reporting not being able to use their hardware at all... In a space sim where you spend vast amounts of time flying around in a space ship? You like that all the menus in game are abbreviated for the convenience of an xbox controller, even though it's a PC exclusive title and the majority of people playing it use mouse/keyboard, since, you know, it's a PC only game?

Xbox controller support, and controller-oriented design decisions are a huge part of what made this game the fucking wreck it is UI wise, which is monumental in a game where the UI has such a huge impact on quality of gameplay and overall flow. To be fair, console controller support isn't really apt to describe this title. This is a console controller game with mouse/keyboard support, and a good portion of the horribleness emanating from this doesn't just concern the overall gameplay, but the shit-poor way they integrate it with the UI and control scheme.
The problem is probably haven't spent enough time playing to see what is going on (I certainly don't blame you for that). The UI is a clusterfuck because it hasn't been designed to use anything well, controller included, and is just thrown together. Different parts of the UI work better with different input methods with no consistency across which is which.

The trade menu absolutely requires a mouse to use efficiently. You cannot sort the trade menu or use the filter tabs with the controller, as those features are simply inaccessible to it. And scrolling through everything constantly with the controller is absolutely tedious once you've scanned most of the stations.

Opening menu screens is faster or slower depending on how far they got into the keybindings. For example, I use the keyboard to open the maps and trade menu because it is faster than the controller.

And then I play the main game with the controller because it is more comfortable than a mouse and don't own a joystick (which apparently support sucks for anyway).

I actually use all 3 devices when I play, controller, keyboard, mouse. You kind of have to not because of anything specifically to do with a controller but because they obviously had programmers and artists design the interface, not an actual designer. And on TOP of that it is maybe about half finished. They made all sorts really silly design mistakes with the interface and all of the worst offenders I can think of off the top of my head have 0 to do with a controller. For example, making menus open after an animation sequence. No matter how fast that is the sequence for a game where you are constantly in and out of menus that was just an epicly dumb decision and is completely irrelevant to a controller. Another this is the art design on the HUD elements. They are too small and very poorly designed art wise. You constantly lose them in the colorful backdrops. Again, nothing to do with the controller, just poor design.

The X3 interface is a byzantine mess of pointlessly nested menus that despite playing for +300 hours I am still not really used to. And never mind complex building, I'd rather tear my eyes out than complete the HUB plot again. They desperately need to hire a designer that knows wtf they are doing. The idea of setting up your empire and then using some simple context sensitive commands is a sound one, it just doesn't work in Rebirth because ofa)poor designb)buggy/incomplete AI andc)missing/incomplete features. There really is no need to addd)controller, because that doesn't quite factor into the real reasons the interface is a mess.

Beyond the interfacethe main problem with the game is that it is too much like X3 on the very high level except with less content and is buggier. What I mean is, the world itself and the AI in particular has absolutely no agency. They do not act, they are merely acted upon. AP kind of sort of added some of this but that was mostly just smoke and mirrors. What should happen, now that the engine is capable of it, is that factions themselves should have AI to do some sort of command and control. In this way you'd get combat missions like you get trade missions now, the mission wouldn't spawn the AI, the AI would spawn the missions.

There are lots of downsides, but there are a few upsides. Station building and trading work better in Rebirth (bugs aside) and the engine itself is much more powerful. Modders have reported that the engine is bot easier to mod and far more capable than the old engine. The problem is that the stock game doesn't really use all this power because it requires time and effort on content and design. We'll see what happens. Although, I reiterate, it you haven't bought the game then do not buy it right now.
 
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Im playing the X-refund game, and it looks like im losing
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Dyvim

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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here be stuff
There are mods and other mods for every x3 game.
If you havent allready you can download the mods that got an nod from the official side at the egosoft website.
download section -> x3:whatever -> bonus package
includes even a forum link with installation guide, manuals and support if needed.
 

Furry

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Got my game refunded. If they fix it, I may purchase it in the future, but now My money is better spent elsewhere. refund basically went like this:

Me: this game sucks and is buggy, can i get a refund.
them:No
Me: plz?
them: Give a detailed list of all the steps and corrospondance you've done with the dev to fix the game.
Me: Can I have a detailed list on how to make this game suck less first?
Them: Refund processed

So yes, its possible. Got my refund in steam credit. Pretty nice!
 

Calroon_sl

shitlord
85
0
Steam not doing refunds is a myth, since forever.

I got 3 alone within the last 12 months.
(Legends of Pegasus, Realms of Arkania and Deus Ex HR DC [they listed it with the wrong discount for ~24 hours])
It's just that you have to not be a dick about it and keep it civil, while ignoring their first copy & paste deny reply.

Decided to not buy this X release at launch (given Egosofts history). It seems to have paid of.
Unlike the other X games, this may not even be salvagable with mods (least that's what people say).

I don't know... had high hopes for this.
Now we have to wait for Star Citizen for years? =/
 

Furry

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I've used steam since day 1, this was my first attempt at a return ever.
 

Gorestabb

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Is it possible to get a Steam refund just because a game sucks? Or does a game have to suck and be buggy in order to get a refund?
 

Denaut

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Probably be buggy. They seem more likely to process returns for a game with many people trying to get refunds.

As for pre-ordering X games, all of their launches except maybe X:AP have been this bad, X3:R was even worse. The major freak out problem with Rebirth is that it was WAY more popular at launch than the other games. I went ahead and pre-ordered anyway because their X3 games gave me hundreds of hours of entertainment for like $15. At that point I look for ways to give a company money.

I have little doubt Rebirth will eventually be the best X game, a ton of basic things are already much better. What is missing is stability and content, which will come later. In general I still don't recommend buying the game.
 

Furry

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Can I have a detailed list on how to make this game suck less first?

Thats actually what i said to the steam guy verbatum. So, i'd venture a guess that yes you can get a refund just because a game sucks. I bet other factors come into play: They can see that I barely played the thing ect ect. Either way, x3 launches have always been a shitstorm mess.- but they've been one that I've enjoyed when ive got them to work. Their original game way back in the dark ages was so fucking buggy as fuck, and on top of it there wasn't an easy way to patch shit back then, but it was so damn fun when I finally got it stable, or for the 5 minute spurts it was playable before I got it stable. This X game was actually their most stable release that I've ever experienced, but that said it was boring as fuck. I don't like anything they did with this game over the other games except the backgrounds/scenery. Give that guy a medal.
 

Denaut

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Without getting into ridiculous detail it basically needs to be finished. Right now it is missing quite a bit, they need to fix bugs of course, finish/refine the interface, add a good hunk of content content, do a detailed balance pass.

The basics are all there and better then the other X games, there just isn't a lot of it. Stations, Capital Ships with Surface elements, better drones, better trading, a better economy, highways, the boost system, and so on. It's tough to see through the haze of bugs and the lack of content but it is there. Hell, I've logged nearly 70 hours and still find it to be the game I boot up first when I get home from work, I am pretty sure by this time next year it will be the most played game on my steam list.
 

Alexzander

Golden Knight of the Realm
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Best I can tell from occasionally checking the egosoft forums: It still sucks donkey balls. Avoid like the plague and hope that Elite
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angerous and/or Star Citizen delivers.
 

Dyvim

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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The players in the official forum say its almost into early beta status-wise and will need at least another 6 month till it will be playableandfun.
Last patch included fundamental stuff renaming your property etc. so its slowly getting there.
 

Denaut

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I follow along/still play on occasion, I would still advise against buying it. While most of the egregious bugs are mostly fixed and they are adding UI functionality that should have been there from the beginning, the game is still extremely light on content (which was never Egosoft's strong suit anyway).

I don't think I've ever seen a company that more desperately needs to hire even just one actual designer. I could do so much with that game with such little effort.