Avengers: Endgame (2019)

nevergone said:

It's the exact same topic.
What solution outside of quantum physics and/or time travel do you think would be "plausible" to restore 50% of life in the universe being wiped out?

We'll put aside the fact that you want to dismiss what Dr. Strange said in Infinity War.

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I like how they specify their victory won't be from changing time but from getting the stones.

Wasn't Iron Man's kid a daughter? Clearly not the next Iron Man. Maybe Iron Maiden...?

Ravishing said:

Hey dumbass, what im saying is we've been watching the alternate timeline where there happen to be 2 caps. You're so hell bent on being the authority on time travel you won't open up your mind to other possibilities.

Personally time travel makes the whole thing seem much less impressive. We're watching the 1 lucky timeline where heroes win, yawn

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Oh, that's what you were saying? Ya, you're still wrong and aren't listening the the rules set out in the movie. It's really not that hard and you're calling ME the dumbass? lol

i'm still surprised they didnt drop hints at what the next big bad is.

Jive Turkey said:

Oh, that's what you were saying? Ya, you're still wrong and aren't listening the the rules set out in the movie. It's really not that hard and you're calling ME the dumbass? lol

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listen. no one is misunderstanding the rules that the movie sets out. no one is misunderstanding the idea of multiple timelines. no one is misunderstanding that the movie claims that when you go back in time, you just go to another timeline. meaning that anything you do in the "past" you aren't doing to YOUR past, you're doing it to someone else's.

what we're saying is that the movie doesn't follow that. so stop saying we're too simple minded to understand it. YOU are.

j00t said:

listen. no one is misunderstanding the rules that the movie sets out. no one is misunderstanding the idea of multiple timelines. no one is misunderstanding that the movie claims that when you go back in time, you just go to another timeline. meaning that anything you do in the "past" you aren't doing to YOUR past, you're doing it to someone else's.

what we're saying is that the movie doesn't follow that. so stop saying we're too simple minded to understand it. YOU are.

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Maybe read whatshisface's post again then. Because by implying Captain America goes back in time, then stays there and ends up back where he started, he IS saying that changes the future. Now he's trying to handwave it away with "well maybe he was there the whole time and we're watching an alternate timeline the whole time". No, that doesn't work either.

Jive Turkey said:

Maybe read whatshisface's post again then. Because by implying Captain America goes back in time, then stays there and ends up back where he started, he IS saying that changes the future. Now he's trying to handwave it away with "well maybe he was there the whole time and we're watching an alternate timeline the whole time". No, that doesn't work either.

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That's what makes that part infuriatingly bad.
He should have come back, given his farewell speech then jumped back again.

Edit: There was no need for a twist.

Jive Turkey said:

Maybe read whatshisface's post again then. Because by implying Captain America goes back in time, then stays there and ends up back where he started, he IS saying that changes the future. Now he's trying to handwave it away with "well maybe he was there the whole time and we're watching an alternate timeline the whole time". No, that doesn't work either.

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yes this is the entire problem with that scene. it was a silly mistake made for the sake of drama instead of internal consistency but it causes massive problems with the entire premise of the movie.

we want cap to have his cake and eat it too, i get that. but in order to accomplish that, you create a ton of character problems (does he sit around at home doing nothing while his best friend is out there assassinating his other best friend's dad? does he sit at home and do nothing while his wife creates shield/hydra? didn't peggy fall in love with cap's character? the one who does the right thing no matter what? does she even still love him after sitting around the house doing nothing?) and in order for old cap to hand off the shield to falcon you invalidate EVERY ARGUMENT that the movie has made about time travel without explaining HOW he got back to the prime universe.

i get it, you think it doesn't. you think cap went to another universe, lived his life in another universe, then came back to this universe as an old man right at the moment he left without any explanation to HOW he did that, fine. you win. you can believe whatever you want. i'm just happy you enjoyed the movie.

I’m just thinking about the 50 percent of couples who wake up thinking “honey I’m home” only to find out they got Castawayed.

j00t said:

yes this is the entire problem with that scene. it was a silly mistake made for the sake of drama instead of internal consistency but it causes massive problems with the entire premise of the movie.

....

i get it, you think it doesn't. you think cap went to another universe, lived his life in another universe, then came back to this universe as an old man right at the moment he left without any explanation to HOW he did that, fine. you win. you can believe whatever you want. i'm just happy you enjoyed the movie.

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Are you out of your mind? I'm saying it's inconsistent. I'm saying it's a mistake. I'm saying it's maybe possible to explain it away as a few other's did earlier in the thread with him coming back with the compass or whatever without the launch pad. I don't know. All I've said is that the fact that it was inconsistent didn't affect the actual plot of the movie at all, so if the writers had a plausible explanation that doesn't break the rules, but felt it unnecessary to explain that late in the movie, I'm okay with that. It's an epilogue, it has nothing to do with the plot. However, saying that we've been watching an alternative timeline the whole time as whats-his-name said, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Jive Turkey said:

Are you out of your mind?

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yes, that MUST be it.

Cap going back in time 100% creates an alternate timeline. Carter was instrumental in early SHIELD's development as its director. Plus you have all her interactions with Howard Stark. Cap in no way could sit back and just let shit unfold and Carter would insta-divorce him or worse if she found out he knew this and did nothing.. He'd pretty much be "fuck these guys, they're HYDRA", have Zola locked away with no parole, free Bucky, and call it a day. Tesseract who knows, although if he got rid of it, then Captain Marvel never exists. But ya, 100% altered timeline, which makes it impossible for him to be in the "prime" timeline as an old man without some massive timeline jumping.

Although who knows how they'll handle that/ever address. Loki escapes in the alternate 2012 they accidentally created, but I have to imagine they'll bring him back for Thor 4 or for his Disney+ show.

Breakdown said:

I’m just thinking about the 50 percent of couples who wake up thinking “honey I’m home” only to find out they got Castawayed.

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or to come back and find out your loved one(s) survived the snap only to die of something else during the ensuing 5 years you were gone. Or the fact that the earth probably no longer has the capacity to feed that extra 4 billion people that just showed back up.

I don't think any movie has required as much 'dont think about it, its a comic book movie' handwaving as Endgame.

Cybsled said:

Although who knows how they'll handle that/ever address. Loki escapes in the alternate 2012 they accidentally created, but I have to imagine they'll bring him back for Thor 4 or for his Disney+ show.

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Despite them making a point of saying that Back to the Future was wrong, their version of time travel actually has more in common with Back to the Future than any other time travel I can think of.

Daezuel said:

Easy to explain the Beyonder bringing back everyone on that battlefield in Endgame really. Just ignore the fodder and bring in more well cast villains to fill out the group.

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Also the perfect way to introduce the venom symbiote into the MCU. Just like in the comics.

Gavinmad said:

or to come back and find out your loved one(s) survived the snap only to die of something else during the ensuing 5 years you were gone. Or the fact that the earth probably no longer has the capacity to feed that extra 4 billion people that just showed back up.

I don't think any movie has required as much 'dont think about it, its a comic book movie' handwaving as Endgame.

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Alternatehistoryhub made a video about this, after the director confirmed the Thanos snap removed 50% of all life (not just sentient). He points out that you now have half your lifestock and half your crops vanishing, creating famine issues. Plus half your trees and algae vanish, which causes environmental issues (CO2 absorption and oxygen production), which would create even more problems. Thanos removing half of all life would destroy far more than half in the long run.

Ravishing said:

You also haven't proven that what I said can't happen. You're just blinded by made up rage that you refuse to think critically

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Dude, you can't go back into your own past and end up in your present. Claiming that it was just an alternate reality that he was already in the whole time is non sensical. It's not like there's one real timeline and a bunch of alternate timelines. Everyone's timeline is their own timeline. throwing in the term 'alternate timeline' to explain the events on screen does absolutely nothing.

And rage? You're the one calling people dumbass. Stop projecting. I'm cool as a cucumber

this could all have been avoided if Cap had came back through the portal. he could have lifted his helmet for the old man reveal. he looks about 80. so in theory he could have lived his life with peggy using Bucky's identity and right before Iron Man started he could jump back to 2023 and only have had minimal interference. you could even say he had peggy leave SHIELD to live privately and thats how Hydra took a foothold.