Azrayne's drug geek thread

Sabbat · Oct 14, 2016

Shonuff said:
All risk and no reward, other than a cheap high.

Can you give me an example of an expensive high?

trex · Oct 14, 2016

Sabbat said:
Can you give me an example of an expensive high?

Uh. Cocaine.

Azrayne · Oct 14, 2016

Shonuff said:
When you see a fellow employee try to go sober after having four cocaine induced heart attacks at the age of 35, to be disowned by his entire family after stealing his kids' PC's they use for school, and see him living out of his truck because rent money goes for drugs, you have a different view.

When you see a friend be killed because he was in a place where he shouldn't have been (everyone was high as fuck, someone said the wrong thing, a fight ensues and he is shot), and then he dies at a premature age, leaving children to go starving, you have a different view. This happened just recently, and I'm still upset over it. But he was with a family that is known for meth and pill-popping.

I'm not going to get involved in some petty "I've seen more suffering than you," pissing contest, because it's meaningless. The first funeral, the first time waking up in a hospital bed, the first time watching a friend spiral into madness, the first time getting fucked over by someone you would have trusted with your life because they needed to get on, that's the one that counts. Anything after that is just dick sizing.

But I have absolutely been there and done that and got the fucking tshirt, and if you think that my attitude towards drugs isn't thoroughly informed by a deep and intensely personal understanding of the suffering they cause, you're wrong. Believe it or not, it's possible to have that understanding and still maintain a point of view more nuanced than "drugs are the devil!" And while it might make you feel good to shoot off with that the bullshit, black-and-white "just say no" rhetoric, the reality is that it not only betrays a complete ignorance of the problem, but is entirely counterproductive when it comes to approaching these issues in a way which actually helps people.

In the company I work in, we have white collar types, and blue collar types. The blue collar types have a very high rate of drug use. And not the light stuff, either. It's like drugs are the scourge of the blue collar types. These are just two cases of many I've seen.

That sucks, and I'm sorry to hear it, but it doesn't make your opinion on the matter any less bullshit. There are very few people these days who haven't had their lives touched in a negative fashion by drug abuse (including tobacco and alcohol, which kill far more people than any illegal drug, so again, where's your outrage there?), and I understand what drives them to an emotion driven, knee-jerk reactive attitude towards the subject, but that doesn't make that attitude any less harmful and counterproductive and straight up irrational.

Fuck you also, and your glorifying of drug use. All risk and no reward, other than a cheap high.

All I've done is tell the truth about my experiences as best as I can, the good ones and the bad ones, and express my opinion on how we can best go forward as a society to approach the problem of substance abuse in a rational, scientifically informed and effective manner, as opposed to the knee-jerk fear-mongering you seem to favor (without realizing that it only makes the problem worse).

Can you give me an example of an expensive high?.

What Trex said - people pay $400+ for a gram of coke in Sydney at the moment. Especially crazy since most of what they're buying is some baby powder/lidocaine/caffeine/speed mashup.

just had a nose job, sinoplasti, and dr. gave me percoset. kinna nervous. i've had a kidney stone that required extraction, and i was able to just take 2-3 vicotines and toss the rest of the bottle. i might take a few advil here and there, otherwise i never take any pills

what are the odds that i'll be instantly hooked to these things? i'm not in a ton of pain but falling asleep has been difficult.

The odds you'll be "instantly hooked" are zero. There's no such thing as a drug that instantly turns someone into an addict. Some people do get enough out of the first high that they dive into the deep end pretty fucking fast, but there tend to be a lot of environmental and psychological factors involved in those cases - if you had that kind of predisposition, you'd probably already know it.

But yeah going back for something weaker might not be a bad idea, if you're just having trouble falling asleep. Codeine should do the trick, especially if you throw in some ibuprofen on top, and it's incredibly mild compared to percocet, and I assume vicodin.

You could also give the bottle to a family member - having to justify each pill to someone else will stop you from falling into the "well I guess one more can't hurt" train of thought.

Or just don't take them, grit your teeth through a few shitty nights and dodge the bullet all together.

Azrayne · Oct 14, 2016

Sorry about the double up, wouldn't let me edit this into my last post, and this is fucking amazing:

The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant after the Internet got really mad

The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant after the Internet got really mad

The Drug Enforcement Administration is reversing a widely criticized decision that would have banned the use of kratom, a plant that researchers say could help mitigate the effects of the opioid epidemic.

Citing the public outcry and a need to obtain more research, the DEA is withdrawing its notice of intent to ban the drug, according to a preliminary document that will be posted to the Federal Register Thursday.

The move is "shocking," according to John Hudak, who studies drug policy at the Brookings Institution. "The DEA is not one to second-guess itself, no matter what the facts are."

The DEA had announced in August that it planned to place kratom in schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act, the most restrictive regulatory category, as soon as Sept. 30. But since announcing their intent to ban kratom, the "DEA has received numerous comments from members of the public challenging the scheduling action," acting administrator Chuck Rosenberg wrote in the notice, "and requesting that the agency consider those comments and accompanying information before taking further action."

A spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Administration did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Kratom is a plant from southeast Asia that's related to coffee. It contains a number of chemical compounds that produce effects similar to opiates when ingested.

People who take it have have said kratom helped them overcome addiction to opiates or alcohol and treat otherwise intractable pain. Researchers say that their work with kratom could eventually lead to the development of nonaddictive alternatives to powerful opiate painkillers. Placing kratom in schedule 1 would cripple researchers ability to study the drug, they say.

U.S. lawmakers were among the groups expressing their displeasure with the DEA's intent to ban kratom. A group of 51 U.S. representatives wrote to the DEA saying that the DEA's move "threatens the transparency of the scheduling process and its responsiveness to the input of both citizens and the scientific community."
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Another group of nine senators said the DEA's "use of this emergency authority for a natural substance is unprecedented," and urged the administration to reconsider.

The DEA will now open up a period for public comment until Dec. 1 of this year. It is also asking the FDA to expedite a "scientific and medical evaluation and scheduling recommendation" for the active chemical compounds in kratom.

At the close of the comment period, a number of things could happen. The DEA could decide to permanently place the plant in a schedule of the Controlled Substances Act, which would require an additional period for lawmakers and the public to weigh in. It could also decide to temporarily schedule kratom, which would not require any additional comment.

It could also decide to leave kratom unregulated.

Advocates for kratom use, who say the plant has helped them treat pain and stop taking more powerful and deadly opiate painkillers said they are elated.

"I am in tears," Susan Ash of the American Kratom Association said in an email. "Our voices are being heard, but we still have a long road ahead of us.

Lawmakers who criticized the initial announcement to ban kratom are also pleased. "Concerned citizens across the country have made it clear, they want the DEA to listen to the science when it comes to the potentially life-saving properties of kratom," said Mark Pocan (D.-Wis.) in an email.

Researchers are welcoming the move, but they point out that the future of their work with the plant is an uncertain one.

"It's certainly a positive development," said Andrew Kruegel of Columbia University in an email. Kruegel is one of the researchers working to develop next-generation painkillers based on compounds contained in kratom.

Kruegel says that the FDA's evaluation of the drug will carry a lot of weight in the DEA's decision. But the kind of rigorous, controlled trials that the FDA typically refers to in situations like this simply don't exist for kratom.

"Unfortunately, in the United States I don't think we have a good regulatory framework for handling this situation or taking perhaps more reasonable middle paths" between banning the drug outright or keeping it unregulated, Kruegel says.

Still, he says, "the FDA is a scientific agency rather than a law enforcement agency, so I am encouraged that they will now be having more serious input on this important policy decision."

Marc Swogger, a clinical psychologist at the University of Rochester Medical Center who has published research on kratom use and earlier called the decision to ban the plant "insane," said in an email that "I'm happy to see this. It is a step in the right direction and a credit to people who have spoken out against scheduling this plant."

He added "now, the government should take into account, not just the minimal available scientific data on kratom, but the broader impact that criminalizing the use of this plant will have on vulnerable citizens."

I knew that there was a bit movement to stop kratom from being scheduled, but I wouldn't have guessed in a million years that the DEA would actually change course. I don't think they've ever so much as reversed one of their "emergency schedulings," let alone pulled back and cancelled one on a target set for Schedule 1. It's shit like this that shows just how far we've come in only 10 years or so.

Tripamang · Oct 15, 2016

Azrayne said:
Sorry about the double up, wouldn't let me edit this into my last post, and this is fucking amazing:

The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant after the Internet got really mad

I knew that there was a bit movement to stop kratom from being scheduled, but I wouldn't have guessed in a million years that the DEA would actually change course. I don't think they've ever so much as reversed one of their "emergency schedulings," let alone pulled back and cancelled one on a target set for Schedule 1. It's shit like this that shows just how far we've come in only 10 years or so.

It's even a sign that their authority is being systematically eroded as more and more people become educated about drugs. People are asking them tougher and tougher questions and they can't answer them, hell they couldn't even admit that pot was safer than heroin! They're going to have to adapt or die, and I'm hoping for the latter. (Not to say I don't think some regulating authority should exist).

pharmakos · Oct 15, 2016

fris said:
just had a nose job, sinoplasti, and dr. gave me percoset. kinna nervous. i've had a kidney stone that required extraction, and i was able to just take 2-3 vicotines and toss the rest of the bottle. i might take a few advil here and there, otherwise i never take any pills

what are the odds that i'll be instantly hooked to these things? i'm not in a ton of pain but falling asleep has been difficult.

if you handled vicodin like that you will be fine. same basic idea, just a bit stronger.

Sludig · Oct 15, 2016

Seems a bit hyperbolic, but an actual big new thing? "PINK". Or just one of many random wierdo synth drugs the public really doesn't understand. Working hospital ER I remember a couple years ago with the craze and fear of bath salts which outside of face eating episodes doesn't seem to be as big as a deal as the normal meth and such addicts that came thru. Why is a drug 8 times stronger than heroin still legal in most states?

I kinda hate that there is the underlying threat of addiction and abuse with opiates. I've been prescribed some for a couple things over my life. And it's something I wish was safe enough to be OTC or easier to get. (I know I could shop doctors probably but I try to be straight laced) Just for me, they would be handy as I fairly routinely hurt my neck/back/other stuff enough to where it'd be nice to medicate effectively for a day or 3 and that's it. I don't know if they really suck that much or I'm just some snowflake, but Ibuprofen and tylenol never do shit at all for migraints or anything but the most dull/minor ache I wouldnt even take anything for in the first place.

Izo · Oct 15, 2016

Sludig said:
Seems a bit hyperbolic, but an actual big new thing? "PINK". Or just one of many random wierdo synth drugs the public really doesn't understand. Working hospital ER I remember a couple years ago with the craze and fear of bath salts which outside of face eating episodes doesn't seem to be as big as a deal as the normal meth and such addicts that came thru. Why is a drug 8 times stronger than heroin still legal in most states?

I kinda hate that there is the underlying threat of addiction and abuse with opiates. I've been prescribed some for a couple things over my life. And it's something I wish was safe enough to be OTC or easier to get. (I know I could shop doctors probably but I try to be straight laced) Just for me, they would be handy as I fairly routinely hurt my neck/back/other stuff enough to where it'd be nice to medicate effectively for a day or 3 and that's it. I don't know if they really suck that much or I'm just some snowflake, but Ibuprofen and tylenol never do shit at all for migraints or anything but the most dull/minor ache I wouldnt even take anything for in the first place.

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Nurse?

Sludig · Oct 15, 2016

No, just the security. Lotsa fun tying up screaming psych's and drunks. Sadly the ratio of hot chicks pulling their clothes off to those you don't want to see is like 20:1.

Fun job, just not something that pays enough to be a career. Fun taunting the spoiled rich kids on holds screaming about call the cops and their false imprisonment and other random legal terms not used right or applicable.

Izo · Oct 15, 2016

Sludig said:
No, just the security. Lotsa fun tying up screaming psych's and drunks. Sadly the ratio of hot chicks pulling their clothes off to those you don't want to see is like 20:1.

Fun job, just not something that pays enough to be a career. Fun taunting the spoiled rich kids on holds screaming about call the cops and their false imprisonment and other random legal terms not used right or applicable.

Haha

Well, sounds like you need to get busy with something you want to do for the rest of your life - have at it, Sir

pharmakos · Oct 15, 2016

Sludig said:
Seems a bit hyperbolic, but an actual big new thing? "PINK". Or just one of many random wierdo synth drugs the public really doesn't understand. Working hospital ER I remember a couple years ago with the craze and fear of bath salts which outside of face eating episodes doesn't seem to be as big as a deal as the normal meth and such addicts that came thru. Why is a drug 8 times stronger than heroin still legal in most states?

I kinda hate that there is the underlying threat of addiction and abuse with opiates. I've been prescribed some for a couple things over my life. And it's something I wish was safe enough to be OTC or easier to get. (I know I could shop doctors probably but I try to be straight laced) Just for me, they would be handy as I fairly routinely hurt my neck/back/other stuff enough to where it'd be nice to medicate effectively for a day or 3 and that's it. I don't know if they really suck that much or I'm just some snowflake, but Ibuprofen and tylenol never do shit at all for migraints or anything but the most dull/minor ache I wouldnt even take anything for in the first place.

Synthetic opioids are scary as hell. They're part of why I quit buying drugs online. Internet drug vendors have been known to mix up bags, putting the wrong chemical into stuff. Usually the way I do things I have a way to check that, but I am not equipped to deal with accidentally receiving a substance whose LD 50 is in the microgram range. So if a vendor starts selling fentanyl analogues, they lose my business.

Azrayne · Oct 15, 2016

I don't keep track of the DNM scene much anymore, but I remember hearing that one of the current markets actually banned the sale of synthetic opioids entirely. Not sure if it was one of the major ones, but it's still interesting. If things keep up at this rate, there might be a move for the markets to self regulate the synthetic opioids so they don't bring down even more media/legal attention than they already have. Things would be a lot better if they stuck to selling heroin, which is (on the AU vendors at least) generally of predictable purity. Of course there are still RC vendors, but nothing you can do about that.

I think it's ironic that we have all these bizarre new RC's being pumped out, and yet probably the two most dangerous products on the DNM's are just the powdered forms of drugs which have been used as pharmaceuticals for decades (xanax and fent).

Fentanyl is trash anyway, I can't imagine any of these analogues are much better. Short acting, no warmth to the high and such a tiny therapeutic index that it's almost impossible to use safely even if you get it as evenly diluted as possible.

Nobody would touch the stuff if they weren't desperate for a cheaper option to pills or H. I guess the chemists are just lazy because you'd figure they could whip up something with a safer potency and an actual decent buzz to it.

Oh and "Pink"? $100 says they just made that name up for the article.

trex · Oct 16, 2016

"I quit illegally buying drugs because synthetic opioids are so scary"

That's cool. I quit doing meth because someone told me it's bad for your teeth. (Pranxxx. I've never done meth)

Izo · Oct 16, 2016

trex said:
"I quit illegally buying drugs because synthetic opioids are so scary"

That's cool. I quit doing meth because someone told me it's bad for your teeth. (Pranxxx. I've never done meth)

That is a poor summary.

pharmakos · Oct 16, 2016

trex said:
"I quit illegally buying drugs because synthetic opioids are so scary"

That's cool. I quit doing meth because someone told me it's bad for your teeth. (Pranxxx. I've never done meth)

i'm not sure what your point is here, please clarify.

are you just taking the stance "well they're all dangerous, why let these new ones stop you?"

there's a huge difference in potential harm between the drugs i was buying (mostly synthetic psychedelics, analogues of things like mescaline and mushrooms, where an accidental overdose is a bad time but isn't going to kill you) vs. these new ones (stuff like carfentanyl, where accidentally inhaling an amount equivalent to a speck of dust will kill you very quickly).

Furious · Oct 16, 2016

Azrayne · Oct 16, 2016

pharmakos said:
i'm not sure what your point is here, please clarify.

are you just taking the stance "well they're all dangerous, why let these new ones stop you?"

there's a huge difference in potential harm between the drugs i was buying (mostly synthetic psychedelics, analogues of things like mescaline and mushrooms, where an accidental overdose is a bad time but isn't going to kill you) vs. these new ones (stuff like carfentanyl, where accidentally inhaling an amount equivalent to a speck of dust will kill you very quickly).

I'm still waiting for the RC version of Thalidomide to emerge. It's actually pretty astounding how relatively benign most of the RC's have been up until this point (although I'm sure a bunch of people used as guinea pigs in China have been seriously fucked up testing new products for the market), but imo at this rate it's just a matter of time until something emerges, becomes popular and then turns out to cause brain cancer or severe organ damage with prolonged use.

1987 · Oct 17, 2016

Hell of a drug

LulzSect · Oct 17, 2016

trex said:
Request Vicodin instead. Percocet does not fuck around. I was in this same predicament for a surgery (not nose job) and found myself enjoying them too much a few weeks before I decided to quit them. My foot hurts like a bitch, but those things are scary.

Wut happen to foot? U ok?

LulzSect · Nov 3, 2016

Have stuck to drinking occasionally this month so far. Got really drunk like twice. Miss weed.

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