Bicycling

Fifey · May 19, 2014

Did the 105 mile ride from Portland to the coast this weekend, had a blast. Got a lot of looks/compliments for riding a fixed gear though.

Jysin · May 19, 2014

Maybe slightly off topic, but I was screwing around looking for upgrades and fell into the black hole of big $ carbon fiber mods. (Didn't purchase anything)

So, I then went to check out a couple of sites and config from the ground up. Basically both Trek and Cannondale have some MTBs pushing $10k-11k USD.

My question is, how the fuck is this price even possible?? 10G for a bicycle. You can buy a fucking brand NEW car from Nissan (Versa Sedan) or Chevrolet (Spark) for about the same price. A vehicle with about 10,000x more moving parts, programmed electronics, etc for the price of a bicycle. How are these prices even remotely justified? What kind of monster profit margins are these companies making? How much goes to the bike manufacturer / how much to the local bike shop?

I just cant wrap my mind around the fact a bicycle costs the same as a brand new car. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Bikes:
Load this Project One Trek with all the high end mods as possible and you get $10,883 (no accessories)
Project One | Trek Bikes

2015 Cannondale Carbon Black = $10,830
2015 Trigger 27.5 Carbon Black inc. - MOUNTAIN - BIKES - 2014

New Car:
2015 Nissan Versa = $11,990
Nissan Versa Review - Research New & Used Nissan Versa Models | Edmunds

2014 Chevrolet Spark = $12,185
Chevrolet Spark Review - Research New & Used Chevrolet Spark Models | Edmunds

Jysin · May 19, 2014

To add further insult, here is a fully top spec'd road bike for a staggering $17,986! (again, no accessories)
You could remove the gay flame paint job and save a grand, but still...

These bikes don't even have suspensions like a MTB, yet the price is ~60% higher? WTF?

Kuriin · May 19, 2014

Components cost anywhere from $15 to $3000. You have wheels that cost about $1000 to $3000. Then you start adding in the type of metal you want to use. Carbon is going to be a hell of a lot more expensive, so that's why it's that high. But, yeah, doing the online custom order is going to be more expensive than going to a bike shop. Good shops will discount big time for purchasing such a bike.

Jysin · May 19, 2014

I get that the components are priced at what they are. This is my point. A car has an order of magnitude more components than a bicycle, plus electronics, computers, safety systems, etc. How does something with as few parts as a bicycle cost $18,000 USD in the example above? There is no way on this earth the cost is anywhere close to that to produce.

Famm · May 19, 2014

Part it out yourself using retail online values and tell us what you come up with getting as close to spec as possible. Some people have a lot of money and don't care about anything but having "the best" so they are willing to pay to have it. Those same guys often don't do their own work either so they aren't going to build up their dream bike, they are going to buy it. I can't imagine many of them get sold though. That thing's probably set up with powertap or something too, right?

Jim Russel · May 26, 2014

Jysin_sl said:
I get that the components are priced at what they are. This is my point. A car has an order of magnitude more components than a bicycle, plus electronics, computers, safety systems, etc. How does something with as few parts as a bicycle cost $18,000 USD in the example above? There is no way on this earth the cost is anywhere close to that to produce.

That madone has a unibody carbon frame. Your car, by comparison, is made of cheaper materials that fit together.

Anyway, comparing the most expensive bike to a cheap car is retarded. Of course the top of the line bike is marked up more than the cheapest car. The car is a high volume, low margin item. The bike is marked up more because they don't sell many. Much of that money is not from parts but from R&D.

A more fair comparison car would be a tesla. Does it really cost 8 times as much to make a tesla than a nissan? Probably not, but they need to incorporate R&D costs and the fact they're selling at low volume...

Arbitrary · May 26, 2014

Given that money can be exchanged for many goods and services it is not unfair to make such comparisons.

You can do quite a bit with 17k.

Jim Russel · May 27, 2014

Arbitrary_sl said:
Given that money can be exchanged for many goods and services it is not unfair to make such comparisons.

You can do quite a bit with 17k.

?? You're conflating the question "is it worth it to spend that much on a bike?" with the question he actually asked which was "How can a bike be as expensive as a car?"

opiate82 · May 27, 2014

Yes you can do a lot with 17k, but if you can afford to drop 17k on a bike I doubt you give a shit that it cost the same as a Camry. Also, since we are talking about exchanging money for goods and services and what not, let's not forget that the bike is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. Finally, the comparison was made in relation to production costs. That comparison makes no sense due to the economies of scale of car production compared to those of bike production. Might as well say it makes no sense to buy an orange Camry because you could buy 17,000 apples with that cash.

Caliane · May 27, 2014

Its like asking why legos cost $100-200 bucks for a set. just some cheap machine crafted plastic right?

You are paying for precision crafting, high quality parts, high quality control, and NO mass production.

I need to find the time/money to get to the doctor. Think I have asthma or something. zyrtec has helped with cough and sinuses a bit, but not totally. And beyond that, cardio is getting harder and harder. Almost blacked out on a fairly short ride on Saturday.

Ao- · May 27, 2014

Caliane_sl said:
Its like asking why legos cost $100-200 bucks for a set. just some cheap machine crafted plastic right?

You are paying for precision crafting, high quality parts, high quality control, and NO mass production.

I need to find the time/money to get to the doctor. Think I have asthma or something. zyrtec has helped with cough and sinuses a bit, but not totally. And beyond that, cardio is getting harder and harder. Almost blacked out on a fairly short ride on Saturday.

Go get tested for it. I've got some severe asthma and so keeping my weight down with a regime of twice daily Advair and pre-dosing with whatever-is-replacing-Albuterol is the "easy" way to make sure I can ride. Steroids/etc will "help" in the short term (zyrtec, clairitin), but not actually help you control it. There's a bunch of shit I had to do too (complete allergy test) to find out exactly what causes it, but fuck it was so nice to fix some of the small things (hypoallergenic pillows and bed sheets, avoid smoke, losing weight) and then to be able to actually inhale fully.

Take this quiz:Test Your Asthma Control | Resources | Asthma.com
I fill one out every time I see a doctor (and that's twice a year if everything is going well).

Another "planning" resource:http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/publ...ma_actplan.pdf

Lenardo · May 27, 2014

on ebay you can get a decent carbon frame- giant, weil (big in asia i guess) etc for under 600 usally about 400ish.

amazon has tons in the 500 dollar range for frames

Fifey · May 28, 2014

Guys, look at this bike for 12grand, it doesn't even have brakes!!1! What a ripoff, I could totally get a KIA for that with brakes.

Ao- · May 28, 2014

fifey_sl said:
Guys, look at this bike for 12grand, it doesn't even have brakes!!1! What a ripoff, I could totally get a KIA for that with brakes.

fuckin trak bike bullshit, doesn't even have spoke holes in the back, lol!

Fifey · May 28, 2014

Yeah, I was wrong, its just the frameset that's 12grand(Look L96, carbon track frameset, no shipping, no tax) those wheels are about 8grand combined so you are looking at a 20grand bike.

Seventh · May 31, 2014

Just got back from two weeks in Norway, cycled my ass off. I rented a road bike (a Merida Ride 94) and had a friggin' blast. Holy shit what an amazing, windy country. Great roads, tons of hills, gorgeous women, and killer food if you're into seafood.

Here's some random pics:

Jysin · Jun 1, 2014

Etwynn_sl said:
That madone has a unibody carbon frame. Your car, by comparison, is made of cheaper materials that fit together.

Ok, an apples to apples comparison from the same manufacturer: The full blown mountain bike is ~$10k and the full blown street bike is $17k. The mountain bike is also full carbon frame and utilizes more complex systems like front and rear suspension and disk brakes. There's also more raw carbon fiber due to the rugged design of the frame.

Yet, the road bike is still 70% more expensive?

Seventh · Jun 1, 2014

It's because there's a market for it man.

Anyway - any of you guys own a Fat Bike? I'm going to pull the trigger on one in a few weeks so that I have it in time for the winter. Right now I'm between the Specialized Fatboy:

Specialized Bicycle Components

And the Surly Moonlander:

Moonlander | Bikes | Surly Bikes

But it's such a seasonal (heh) purchase, I'm tempted to try and save a little coin and go with a less expensive setup, something like the Origin 8 crawler. The Spec/Surley would run me around two grand, whereas I can get the Crawler for about $1500.

First Impressions: Origin-8 Crawler Fatbike | Maverick Moto Media

Famm · Jun 1, 2014

Please buy Surly instead of Specialized. Or even better buy a Salsa.

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