Black Desert

Zindan said:

They have been working on everything they mentioned at Calpheon Ball, and I believe most of the big features will be out this year. The Winter area was scheduled for to be out in 2021, the Land of Dawn (Margoria) is scheduled for 2022. The "endless" dungeon they mentioned is "Terror of the Deep" which will be out this year. The two biggest features they've announeced in the past year or so which haven't yet made it to Live have been Thornwood Castle (but that will be out by Sept) and the total Node War / Server War system (work in progress). Its just that they mention too much stuff far too soon.

This Heidel Ball should have only about stuff like Winter zone, Terror of the Deep, Manions, Season revamp, Atoraxxion and PvP. All stuff which will be out this year. Then at the Calpheon Ball start talking about the Trading revamp, Land of Dawn, all the stuff that will most likely be out in 2022 and showcased in the Summer.

I'll be surprised if they manage to get all sections of Atoraxxion out by the end of 2021 though, and I also think the Class revamp will be very very anemic, with it mostly just being fluff passives, and a normalization of hidden stats. Nothing that will change how any class plays, imo. The T10 Dine announcement was pretty pathetic though, lol. That should be a worthwhile goal for people to work towards, if they want too.

Not a huge fan of PA concentrating on getting a new class out every 3 months, that seems like overkill. Yet, I wouldn't mind them taking some time and developing a new sub class, but doing something like that is probably a lot harder than simply making a new shiny something.

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How much do you want to bet that Terror of the Deep and Winter Area doesn't make it to NA this year? I'm even on the fence as to whether or not the node war revamp will make it at this point. We've been jebaited by it so many fucking times, I just don't care anymore.

Class revamp is going to be exactly that. Mostly just some small tweaks, getting rid of/spicing up a lot of the "filler" skills very few people

I really hope the class revamp has them making a huge effort into truly separating Succession vs. Awakening specs. Each spec needs to feel and play very differently, without much/any overlap. There are so many classes I'd love to play, but absolutely refuse to touch simply because having to swap back and forth to pre-awakening is so goddamn tedious.

Pyros said:

A new class every 3months also seems counter productive with how slow they are to make costumes and them being mostly class specific costumes. The new classes will end up getting like 2-3 costumes plus the ones that aren't class specific, and then probably nothing for a year as they have to work on the next class' 2-3 costumes and adding new costumes every now and then to the growing older roster.

I guess it's a good way to get people back into the game regularly though, especially along season servers and such.

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It's really starting to seem like PA is attempting to pivot to attracting "one and done" type players. They don't really seem to be interested in retention of players much anymore. Seasons, new classes every 3 months, insane gear skipping (Narchillian), announcing a new "tutorial", etc. all speaks to them wanting to attract a player for a month, get them to spend some cash on a costume or two, maybe some inventory slots/weight, and then churn out. And in the case of veteran players, they're hoping they'll do the same 4 times a year with each new class.

I really don't foresee PA releasing anything that'll make me keep playing BDO as anything other than a side game I check in on every month or two, once Lost Ark releases. It's kind of sad that the only thing that'd bring me back to BDO is Lost Ark sucking.

I like where BDO is headed - theyre getting more creative with classes and breaking further from the standard knights and ninjas shit - i cant wait till i can be Frieza

Nice change to Season leveling coming with the new Season:

• The Main questline has been simplified for existing players who want to make a season character. You follow the questline until velia and then have the option to do the simplified version. For the simplified version all you have to do is reach level milestones and talk to your black spirit. The simpified version will complete the season pass and give you all the same rewards as the normal questline. Once you've finished the simplified quests you can start the Valencia questline as normal.

So I guess this is the best spot to ask/incite some conversation. Does BDO have a way to analyze your combat performance? Are there combat metrics? DPS meters? HPS meters? Any kind of analytical data that players can parse through to improve their game play?

This apparently has the best action combat and i'm taking a moment to do honest research.

Xerge said:

So I guess this is the best spot to ask/incite some conversation. Does BDO have a way to analyze your combat performance? Are there combat metrics? DPS meters? HPS meters? Any kind of analytical data that players can parse through to improve their game play?

This apparently has the best action combat and i'm taking a moment to do honest research.

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Not really, no. This game's PvE is more akin to an ARPG though. You grind mobs in a spot repeatedly, earning silver/items to sell for silver. And it's mostly done solo. They've added some group play stuff recently, but even then it's not something people engage in that often except with friends. There just isn't much incentive to do that content over just soloing at your own pace. It takes a certain mindset to enjoy, but the combat system is so good, it keeps you wanting to interact with it. How "good" you're doing is usually measured in how much trash loot you earn per hour, without buffs. Obviously, the more you earn, the better you typically are with movement, combos, ability usage, etc. Obviously, some classes earn more than others because of their design, but you essentially compare yourself to other's of the same class and their trash loot/hour.

One of the nice things about the PvE system in BDO is how open world it is. The game doesn't force you to do your typical themepark ride where you go to quest hub after quest hub. The world is pretty much your oyster on that front. It's much more similar to EQ, where you can grind wherever you desire.

PvP has a battlefield with stats, but it's a really poor judge of actual skill since the way it is setup favors certain classes. 1v1 is usually the best test of somebody's actual skill, especially in mirror matchups.

Xerge said:

So I guess this is the best spot to ask/incite some conversation. Does BDO have a way to analyze your combat performance? Are there combat metrics? DPS meters? HPS meters? Any kind of analytical data that players can parse through to improve their game play?

This apparently has the best action combat and i'm taking a moment to do honest research.

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Nope, no visible metrics beyond what Kirun mentioned. We don't even have combat dmg numbers. Seems ok to me. In PvE you see improvement by upgrading your gear which can allow you to grind at higher end spots more efficiently, or by allowing you earn more money at the spots you're already doing. If upgrades are not an option, then min/max your rotation at the spots you like is the best you can do to see if you're getting better at your class. In PvP, you'll learn quick enough whether you suck or if you have a grasp on how to play your class well in a PvP situation.

The gear situation in open world pvp is in a funny place right now. Over the past couple years Pearl Abyss has been throwing gear at new players such that a brand new player could attain "soft cap" really fast. Yet, those new softcap players will get curbstomped by experienced players who have the same gear or those who have been constantly upgrading. Consider this, a current softcap player will have Attack Power / Defense Power of 250/310, while above that are various levels of min/max. My main character has 275/277/340 and I would smash anyone at the softcap, yet there are people sitting at near max gear who have 300+/300+/370+ and they would smash me. Pearl Abyss gets players to the point where they will have to spend quite a bit of time farming up money to progress their gear, but not high enough to be a concern for anyone who has already done so (for open world pvp). Seems alright to me, some new player hitting softcap during a Season shouldn't make someone sitting at softcap+ feel their work has been for naught. Sorry for the numbers as they are probably meaningless to you. =)

Nobody in BDO wants a "fair" fight in open world PvP, regardless of what they might say. They want their gear to be all that matters, and I agree with that. Gearing up in BDO can be pretty brutal and frustrating even if you're a whale, yet I fully support equalized Arena pvp and hope that PA can make that work since I think Lost Ark will be a huge temptation to players who want skill based pvp.

Zindan said:

Nobody in BDO wants a "fair" fight in open world PvP, regardless of what they might say. They want their gear to be all that matters, and I agree with that. Gearing up in BDO can be pretty brutal and frustrating even if you're a whale, yet I fully support equalized Arena pvp and hope that PA can make that work since I think Lost Ark will be a huge temptation to players who want skill based pvp.

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Well, the reason people want their gear to matter is because it's literally the only incentive to push gear progression. If you take away the incentive for gear to matter in PvP (which it sounds like they might be doing with "PvP sets"), what's the point of most of the content? I mean, I guess it allows you to grind a few hundred extra trash/hour at your favorite grind spot? But, there are no raids, no real meaningful group content (outside of EXP stuff like trees, or costume shit), and the dungeons they have coming down the pipeline so far just looks like the same gear you acquire at solo grind spots (at least the example they gave is - it's literally a disto earring).

Lost Ark doesn't just hold appeal from a PvP standpoint, honestly. If I'm not mistaken, it actually has raids, dungeons, etc. which incentivizes you to push gear/progression. Between Elyion, BLESS Unleashed, NW, and Lost Ark over the next 3-4 months, PA has a real reckoning on their hands soon. If that 17 class revamp ends up being a lot of just restructuring passives and cleaning up unused abilities? They are going to lose a TON of players. Hell, they might even lose them to their own damn game in Crimson Desert. The best part of BDO is undoubtedly the combat system. If they rip that system out and you can get that system in a story-driven, "side-game" type experience? Oof.

Both BDO and LA have gear progression that matters for doing content. The design in BDO is much more open ended, where you can go do any content... but it won't be a great experience and not very efficient if you're undergeared. If you're grinding at one of the high end spots, you also want to have gear capable of fighting off people if necessary. So I'm not seeing how PA is diminishing the point of gear progression (yet). There is too little information about the PvP gear system they mentioned for it to be a worry about ruining current gear progression. I also think PA is a bit too worried about making group content "too good".

I think LA probably has the better gear progression, or maybe its one that most MMO players are used too, that is content gated by gear level. Its all very clear cut, reach XXX gear score, get to do XXX content. This is all LA has at 50-60, lots and lots of instanced content which is locked behind various gear lvls. And it is all time gated content as well. It just seems very easy to manage vs. the open ended nature of BDO allowing you do whatever.

Zindan said:

Both BDO and LA have gear progression that matters for doing content. The design in BDO is much more open ended, where you can go do any content... but it won't be a great experience and not very efficient if you're undergeared. If you're grinding at one of the high end spots, you also want to have gear capable of fighting off people if necessary. So I'm not seeing how PA is diminishing the point of gear progression (yet). There is too little information about the PvP gear system they mentioned for it to be a worry about ruining current gear progression. I also think PA is a bit too worried about making group content "too good".

I think LA probably has the better gear progression, or maybe its one that most MMO players are used too, that is content gated by gear level. Its all very clear cut, reach XXX gear score, get to do XXX content. This is all LA has at 50-60, lots and lots of instanced content which is locked behind various gear lvls. And it is all time gated content as well. It just seems very easy to manage vs. the open ended nature of BDO allowing you do whatever.

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LOL if you think BDO isn't confined to those same constraints of X gear score for X content. Tell me how well you do at Ash Forest with 269 kutum and 330 DP. It's "open ended" in that you have numerous available grinding locations at/below your gear score, but it's absolutely, 100% gated in terms of X gearscore for Y content.

And BDO doesn't have meaningful gear progression outside of PvP, that's my point. So what I hit 280 Kutum? Now I get to solo grind Red Orcs instead of solo grinding Star's End? All that really changes is scenery and the silver/hour. It's still the same content of running in a vague circle, killing packs of mobs for hours on end, solo. The only reason that's even fun in the slightest is because the combat system is so fucking good/fun to interact with and it's extremely chill/relaxing.

You get incentivized to do that with the knowledge that you'll be able to buy a new PEN armor in 2-4 weeks, which makes you more competitive in node war, siege, open world PvP, etc. And my point about them invalidating gear is that PA is putting new players at the point where you can grind 130+m silver/hour spots shortly after finishing Mediah. Being able to grind places like Aakman and Hystria is basically end-game. Star's End is like 1 or 2 accessory upgrades away, so 2, maybe 3 weeks? Like I said, you're really only changing scenery or becoming slightly more efficient by pushing gear. You push gear because of the PvP implications. If they "normalize" or otherwise add a separate PVP set, I really don't see what the incentive is at that point.

In Lost Ark, it sounds like your incentive is better dungeons, new, harder raids, etc. There's actually meaningful content that you're pushing gear for. We can disagree on this, but I don't find the difference between grinding Star's End and Lower Sycria meaningful content.

I appreciate the responses, sounds like the ultimate grinder honestly, in a good way.

Unlike a lot of other games where gear resets happen every major patch or expansion (pretty sure LA is in that format), that gear you work hard for in BDO has lasting value.

Kirun said:

LOL if you think BDO isn't confined to those same constraints of X gear score for X content. Tell me how well you do at Ash Forest with 269 kutum and 330 DP. It's "open ended" in that you have numerous available grinding locations at/below your gear score, but it's absolutely, 100% gated in terms of X gearscore for Y content.

And BDO doesn't have meaningful gear progression outside of PvP, that's my point. So what I hit 280 Kutum? Now I get to solo grind Red Orcs instead of solo grinding Star's End? All that really changes is scenery and the silver/hour. It's still the same content of running in a vague circle, killing packs of mobs for hours on end, solo. The only reason that's even fun in the slightest is because the combat system is so fucking good/fun to interact with and it's extremely chill/relaxing.

You get incentivized to do that with the knowledge that you'll be able to buy a new PEN armor in 2-4 weeks, which makes you more competitive in node war, siege, open world PvP, etc. And my point about them invalidating gear is that PA is putting new players at the point where you can grind 130+m silver/hour spots shortly after finishing Mediah. Being able to grind places like Aakman and Hystria is basically end-game. Star's End is like 1 or 2 accessory upgrades away, so 2, maybe 3 weeks? Like I said, you're really only changing scenery or becoming slightly more efficient by pushing gear. You push gear because of the PvP implications. If they "normalize" or otherwise add a separate PVP set, I really don't see what the incentive is at that point.

In Lost Ark, it sounds like your incentive is better dungeons, new, harder raids, etc. There's actually meaningful content that you're pushing gear for. We can disagree on this, but I don't find the difference between grinding Star's End and Lower Sycria meaningful content.

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Then you won't find the different gear locked dungeons / raids in LA to be meaningful either. Its just higher numbers (the actual raids are getting increasingly mechanic based, so your gear becomes less meaningful once you hit the magic number). The point I was making with BDO being more open ended is that you can, IF you want, head over to any grind spot (even party up for it) in the game at anytime and see how you do. In LA that is not possible. In BDO, if you look at "point" of the game, its to make money. So getting to a point where you can go grind efficiently at a new spot is meaningful and impactful, since you can spend less time making more money. With better gear you can grind at better spots (in terms of silver) and have a higher chance of survival in PvP. Not sure what else gear needs to offer players in BDO.

Uriel said:

Unlike a lot of other games where gear resets happen every major patch or expansion (pretty sure LA is in that format), that gear you work hard for in BDO has lasting value.

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This is what I really enjoy about ESO's item system. Once you own an item and upgrade to max value, that's it. It's like collecting valued items in EQ. TBH elderscrolls online and BDO have more in common than ppl think. One just sounds flashier than the other.

Uriel said:

Unlike a lot of other games where gear resets happen every major patch or expansion (pretty sure LA is in that format), that gear you work hard for in BDO has lasting value.

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And I love that about BDO, but if PA isn't careful, they are quickly turning it into a thing where gear is getting homogenized/normalized into not mattering at all. Like I said, they almost start you at Star's End grinding values now (you can probably do it at 250/310, but it'll be slow and Aakman/Hystria is probably more efficient over the long-term at those values).

Zindan said:

Then you won't find the different gear locked dungeons / raids in LA to be meaningful either. Its just higher numbers (the actual raids are getting increasingly mechanic based, so your gear becomes less meaningful once you hit the magic number). The point I was making with BDO being more open ended is that you can, IF you want, head over to any grind spot (even party up for it) in the game at anytime and see how you do. In LA that is not possible. In BDO, if you look at "point" of the game, its to make money. So getting to a point where you can go grind efficiently at a new spot is meaningful and impactful, since you can spend less time making more money. With better gear you can grind at better spots (in terms of silver) and have a higher chance of survival in PvP. Not sure what else gear needs to offer players in BDO.

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Well, MMOs are always "just higher numbers" in the grand scheme of things, for the most part. The thing that makes them fun is the gameplay, the new mechanics, etc. BDO doesn't really offer that on the PvE side (and you could even argue it on the PvP side, being as siege is basically dead, node wars are in a really bad spot, etc.). The mechanics of grinding are pretty much the same whether you're grinding at Helm's or grinding at Blood Wolves. It's all just run in a circle, execute combos, execute movement skills to next pack, pop E buff, z buff, Q buff, etc. Nothing really fundamentally changes and while a game like EQ fundamentally didn't change all that much until later expansions, you still had the incentive to push gear/progress because it meant you got to see a new zone, tackle a new raid mob, etc. BDO is all just more solo content and with the new Elvia spots, it isn't even a new location you get to work toward/see - it's literally just an old spot with higher level mobs. So, while they are adding more groupable locations, so far none of those offer you anything over soloing really, outside of very specific instances.

I love BDO because the combat system is just so absurdly good, but it's just so hard to find any motivation to log in lately. I feel like the only thing really keeping the game afloat at this point is said combat system. Without that, BDO would be extremely stale.

Xerge said:

So I guess this is the best spot to ask/incite some conversation. Does BDO have a way to analyze your combat performance? Are there combat metrics? DPS meters? HPS meters? Any kind of analytical data that players can parse through to improve their game play?

This apparently has the best action combat and i'm taking a moment to do honest research.

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There are class Discords that are very useful regarding what you want:

Class Discords Archer Join the BDO Archer Discord Discord Server!
Berserker Join the BDO Berserker discord Discord Server!
Dark Knight Join the BDO Shrine of Vedir Discord Server! and Join the BDO Dark Knight Discord Discord Server!
Guardian Join the BDO Guardian Discord Discord Server!
Hashashin Join the BDO Hashashin Discord Discord Server!
Lahn Join the BDO Lahn Discord Discord Server!
Musa/Maehwa Join the BDO Musa/Maehwa Discord Discord Server!
Ninja/Kuno Join the BDO Ninja/Kunoichi Discord Discord Server! and Join the ✦ BDO Ninja & Kunoichi Discord Discord Server!
Nova Join the Nova Class Discord Discord Server!
Ranger Join the BDO Ranger Discord Discord Server!
Sage Join the BDO Sage Discord Discord Server!
Shai Join the BDO Shai Discord Discord Server!
Sorc Join the BDO Sorceress Discord Discord Server!
Striker/Mystic Join the BDO Striker/Mystic Discord Discord Server!
Tamer Join the BDO Tamer Discord Discord Server!
Valk Join the BDO Valkyrie Discord Discord Server!
Warrior Join the BDO Warrior Discord Discord Server!
Witch/Wizard Join the BDO Witch/Wizard Server Discord Server!

Xerge said:

I appreciate the responses, sounds like the ultimate grinder honestly, in a good way.

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BDO is a P2LG game (Pay To Less Grind). Which does help in winning somewhat. But they generally keep right on the edge of P2W, depending on your definition of it.

I like the game because it lets me advance in AFK mode while working too much at the office. Also spent hundreds of dollars on pets when I shouldn't have (still stings a bit). They are very good at opening your wallet if you let them.

But it's a fun game if you like the grind. The combat is top notch, the huge amount of various systems like crafting, sailing, horse breeding, bartering, etc.. are very deep and can take months or years to advance in, and the graphics are glorious.

Kirun said:

And I love that about BDO, but if PA isn't careful, they are quickly turning it into a thing where gear is getting homogenized/normalized into not mattering at all. Like I said, they almost start you at Star's End grinding values now (you can probably do it at 250/310, but it'll be slow and Aakman/Hystria is probably more efficient over the long-term at those values).

Well, MMOs are always "just higher numbers" in the grand scheme of things, for the most part. The thing that makes them fun is the gameplay, the new mechanics, etc. BDO doesn't really offer that on the PvE side (and you could even argue it on the PvP side, being as siege is basically dead, node wars are in a really bad spot, etc.). The mechanics of grinding are pretty much the same whether you're grinding at Helm's or grinding at Blood Wolves. It's all just run in a circle, execute combos, execute movement skills to next pack, pop E buff, z buff, Q buff, etc. Nothing really fundamentally changes and while a game like EQ fundamentally didn't change all that much until later expansions, you still had the incentive to push gear/progress because it meant you got to see a new zone, tackle a new raid mob, etc. BDO is all just more solo content and with the new Elvia spots, it isn't even a new location you get to work toward/see - it's literally just an old spot with higher level mobs. So, while they are adding more groupable locations, so far none of those offer you anything over soloing really, outside of very specific instances.

I love BDO because the combat system is just so absurdly good, but it's just so hard to find any motivation to log in lately. I feel like the only thing really keeping the game afloat at this point is said combat system. Without that, BDO would be extremely stale.

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The new Elvia spots were well received by the playerbase because each introduced a mechanic for players to interact with, which made the grind much more fun, so give PA a bit of credit for at least trying to make positive changes to the grind. I hope they continue this trend, but be cautious with it because I don't want to see anything in BDO where the mechanic itself is what determines success or failure (like in LA raids).

Corsair tomorrow: Black Desert Online │ PEARL ABYSS

are there any major differences between playing this on Console or PC?

is controller support on PC decent or a pain in the ass? I had played it a few years ago but wasn't crazy about the keyboard / mouse for combat and aiming and wasn't sure if a controller would be much smoother for it or if that came with huge drawbacks as well

thanks