Bootstrappers guide to being successful.

AladainAF · May 6, 2015

I got a lot of recruiter spam, but their asks were entirely unreasonable.

We want an ace computer programmer, who can be an ace DBA at times, an ace supervisor, do stellar quality assurance work, with complete mastery of these 18 programming languages, travel 60% of the time, etc, etc, etc, etc..

Part of the problem too, chaos, isn't simply the talent isn't there - it's that the expectations and asks for most tech positions are so far out of line that you end up looking for someone whos a master of ten different things, and like a druid in EQ the end result when you can do ten different things well you are a master of none.

Mist · May 6, 2015

AladainAF_sl said:
I got a lot of recruiter spam, but their asks were entirely unreasonable.

We want an ace computer programmer, who can be an ace DBA at times, an ace supervisor, do stellar quality assurance work, with complete mastery of these 18 programming languages, travel 60% of the time, etc, etc, etc, etc..

Part of the problem too, chaos, isn't simply the talent isn't there - it's that the expectations and asks for most tech positions are so far out of line that you end up looking for someone whos a master of ten different things, and like a druid in EQ the end result when you can do ten different things well you are a master of none.

Yeah, I don't understand what market chaos is talking about where they're filling seats with underqualified people. In the north east companies are looking for super overqualified people at really lousy pay rates. Exception: defense contractors if you already have a security clearance. Then they want super overqualified people for at least fairly decent pay.

AladainAF · May 6, 2015

For me, it's not even the pay rates. I'd take a fun, programming job where I can sit in a dark corner in an office and crank out code for a really low salary because its just, but the entire culture these days is constantly intermingling with people, and I just hate it. It's really not for me. I wanna crank out quality good work, I don't want to be bothered with meetings, standups, and meetings for 3/4ths of my day.

Seriously, when all is lost fuck it. Some people like chaos look at people like that professior and say "I'd kill for that job" and other people say "What the fuck do I need to do to be able to do that job - whether for someone else or for myself".

I've never been happier working than when I run my own shit.

Cad · May 7, 2015

Granted my experience is a while ago but I didn't start making real money in programming until I quit salary and started doing hourly consulting. The projects were more interesting and I got to move on after 5-6 months to something new. About 5 years after I graduated my rate was $105/hr and I could get that pretty regularly.

I did that about 70% after we formed our startup and created a product and just sold our "story" to the VC's as mist likes to think, lol

All the real money came from a insulting and forming our own company.

Phazael · May 7, 2015

Depends on the company and the culture. My wife's company keeps trying to shift stuff to India and some eastern European shithole, but it always backfires and ending up costing them more money to fix the fuckups these people cause. The only people who come out ahead are certain execs who get to look like they are saving on labor by shifting the cost of permanent hires to double that in consultants. Mahootma and his script will never replace on site network and desktop support jobs, though. Programming is another animal, however.

Chaos, correct me if I am wrong, but you work in the national security sector where having a foreign guy write the code that watches where you poop might be a bit of an issue?

chaos · May 8, 2015

AladainAF_sl said:
For me, it's not even the pay rates. I'd take a fun, programming job where I can sit in a dark corner in an office and crank out code for a really low salary because its just, but the entire culture these days is constantly intermingling with people, and I just hate it. It's really not for me. I wanna crank out quality good work, I don't want to be bothered with meetings, standups, and meetings for 3/4ths of my day.

Seriously, when all is lost fuck it. Some people like chaos look at people like that professior and say "I'd kill for that job" and other people say "What the fuck do I need to do to be able to do that job - whether for someone else or for myself".

I've never been happier working than when I run my own shit.

Yeah but I consider myself too old to really do any of that shit. I'll never be the professor who gets paid six figures to sit around fucking with crypto algorithms all day. I'm not complaining, I like my job and I made my choices to support my family. If I had to pick a dream job, that would be it. But of course I am only seeing one facet of it, I am sure there are plenty of shitty things about that dude's job. I bet he has to go beg for grant money, that would suck. And university politics are reeeeeeeeeeeeetarded. Not to mention having to teach a class of 15 where 4 people want to be there and the other 11 are doing it because the university requires it.

I like creating/refining processes as well, so i don't mind the meetings unless they are just circle jerks.

Phazael I do work in national security, but I'm a contractor. My company also has a huge mobile wing that pays comparable to what I make and more, and they aren't outsourcing either. They just had a webinar about how outsourcing ultimately hurts productivity and increases costs. It isn't just my company either, maybe it is the area. idk, my experience reflects more like Cad. People make decent money on salary but to make "fuck you" money you have to form your own consulting group and go rogue.

Rhuma_sl · May 9, 2015

I'm hopeful, will hear back from a pool enclosure company on Tuesday, good pay and tons of room for advancement.

Going to try something different this time and shoot for climbing the ladder instead of just punching the clock.

Bossman setout a clear path for me and gave examples of what he did to get where he is, so I'll just work my ass off, show up early every day, learn everything i can to get my own crew and continue to shoot for the next step.

Of course this requires getting my foot in the door but I'm hopeful, interview went really well.

AladainAF · May 10, 2015

People make decent money on salary but to make "fuck you" money you have to form your own consulting group and go rogue.

But this is how it should be. People that make "fuck you money" in addition to forming your own consulting group/etc... you are taking a RISK. You will ALWAYS do better when you take risks (and those risks work out).

Cad · May 10, 2015

Not to mention working a salary at one company on one set of products is just fucking boring and technically stifling. Getting out there and doing a bunch of 4-6 month contracts really shows you a lot of different ways to do things and some of them work and some of them don't.

mewkus · May 10, 2015

aladain made a really good point about having a stable family unit. i've jumped jobs and careers a few times and have explored loads of options, but i've always known that if i failed i could always go crash with the family for a few months, rebuild and try again. that security lets you take risks you might not otherwise be able to take.

my advice would be to take opportunities as they occur. i grab every opportunity i can (project work, seminars, training courses - though i don't bother with qualifications because everyone just braindumps and examcrams the test anyway) to squeeze all the learning out of it and use that to buy me more options. these options can springboard you in all sorts of directions, and if needed, just grab a generic community college qualification thats recognised in the industry you want to try next and go for it.

i've done admin and teaching and private investigations and gone for army officer recruitment and run my own IT business and currently work in corporate IT and now i'm thinking of getting into tech sales. cads advice on networking was good, treating conversations as short term info exchanges rather than being obliged to sit there awkwardly out of some sense of social obligation is a good insight. thanks.

Xequecal · May 10, 2015

Cad_sl said:
Nothing about the rankings is arbitrary, nor are the test scores.

Law school class rank honestly is highly luck based. It's not like medical school where you mostly have test questions and answers that are objectively correct or incorrect. You're definitely subject to the whims of your professors in what grades you get, and this is made worse by the fact that a lot of law school classes have the entire grade determined by one exam.

Mist · May 10, 2015

Back on the H1B topic:

FWD.us To Laid-Off Southern California Edison Workers: Boo-Hoo - Slashdot

Fucking asshole trying to say the 500 people who trained their foreign replacements weren't qualified for their own job.

Cad · May 10, 2015

Xequecal_sl said:
Law school class rank honestly is highly luck based. It's not like medical school where you mostly have test questions and answers that are objectively correct or incorrect. You're definitely subject to the whims of your professors in what grades you get, and this is made worse by the fact that a lot of law school classes have the entire grade determined by one exam.

Tell that to the people who consistently made A's with 20 different professors?

Cad · May 10, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Back on the H1B topic:

FWD.us To Laid-Off Southern California Edison Workers: Boo-Hoo - Slashdot

Fucking asshole trying to say the 500 people who trained their foreign replacements weren't qualified for their own job.

H1B's are definitely subject to a lot of abuse.

Rhuma_sl · May 10, 2015

Sounds like going to school for programming is a bad idea these days, I've heard the horror stories of the ridiculous hours to make deadlines for games and getting laid off immediately after completion. Now you have to fight for even those shitty positions with foreigners which inevitably is going to lower wages. Is there really any career that won't be at risk for low cost outsourcing/importing foreigners? The labor field and customer service is already crushed under the weight of illegals/outsourcing.

If you had told me 15 years ago that the IT industry would be run on Mexicans and Indians I'd have laughed in your face.

stonewall_sl · May 10, 2015

Pay yourself first and pay yourself no less than 10% of what you make then invest that 10% wisely,I own a couple businesses and rental houses. I would also suggest reading the book the richest man in Babylon.

Palum · May 10, 2015

Rhuma_sl said:
Sounds like going to school for programming is a bad idea these days, I've heard the horror stories of the ridiculous hours to make deadlines for games and getting laid off immediately after completion. Now you have to fight for even those shitty positions with foreigners which inevitably is going to lower wages. Is there really any career that won't be at risk for low cost outsourcing/importing foreigners? The labor field and customer service is already crushed under the weight of illegals/outsourcing.

If you had told me 15 years ago that the IT industry would be run on Mexicans and Indians I'd have laughed in your face.

Yea don't work in games development. Not sure that's necessarily typical. For sure the only 'secure' IT jobs involve security clearances... for now.

Rhuma_sl · May 11, 2015

stonewall_sl said:
Pay yourself first and pay yourself no less than 10% of what you make then invest that 10% wisely,I own a couple businesses and rental houses. I would also suggest reading the book the richest man in Babylon.

Read the cliff notes, some sound advice, the 10% is pretty easy but actually investing your money wisely is the hard part lol
I've always been partial to the foreign exchange, i wouldn't feel comfortable doing anything else.

Vitality · May 11, 2015

stonewall_sl said:
Pay yourself first and pay yourself no less than 10% of what you make then invest that 10% wisely,I own a couple businesses and rental houses. I would also suggest reading the book the richest man in Babylon.

+1 on paying yourself first

Brahma · May 11, 2015

Goodness gracious me, you guys/gals just don't get it.

1. Be Black
2. Don't be stupid.
3. Profit.
4. Laugh at white folks behind their backs for feeling guilty for something.
5. Claim racism is steps 1-4 don't work.
6. Profit

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