Bootstrappers guide to being successful.

Gavinmad · May 11, 2015

Brahma_sl said:
Goodness gracious me, you guys/gals just don't get it.

1. Be Black
2. Don't be stupid.
3. Profit.
4. Laugh at white folks behind their backs for feeling guilty for something.
5. Claim racism is steps 1-4 don't work.
6. Profit

I was going to pop in and say 'Dont be black' but I think Brahma's post is funnier.

iannis · May 12, 2015

chaos_sl said:
Lady I work in the tech sector, I see the manpower shortages ERRY DAY. I see sub-par candidates getting hired on just to fill a seat because there just aren't enough technically qualified people. I'm picking up the slack of one RIGHT NOW.

I see literally a couple of dozen companies posting every day on twitter that they can't find the right people, that infosec is severely undermanned, that they can't find programmers, shit is a cancer.

It's probably like the "nursing shortage".

Yeah, there is a shortage of good, qualified nurses. No damn doubt. The powers that be also make sure that shortage doesn't get fixed. Cause $$$, son.

iannis · May 12, 2015

ps don't be black

Heylel · May 12, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Yeah, I don't understand what market chaos is talking about where they're filling seats with underqualified people. In the north east companies are looking for super overqualified people at really lousy pay rates. Exception: defense contractors if you already have a security clearance. Then they want super overqualified people for at least fairly decent pay.

It's not infosec, but I sat in a meeting with a guy from Yahoo last fall where I had a chance to pick his brain about a graduate course I was developing at the time. He basically begged us to teach more people about accessible code (Section 508, WCAG, etc.) because he's got empty seats for six figure jobs in Silicon Valley where he just can't find anyone qualified.

Now, the problem is that all of the jobs get bundled together. You have to be a crack coder AND evaluator AND accessibility expert etc. Companies have diversified positions to the point where the qualifications are absurd. People should be able to specialize, but it's very difficult to find an employer willing to hire someone for one or two exotic, highly specific skills.

Heylel · May 12, 2015

AladainAF_sl said:
I've never been happier working than when I run my own shit.

I've started doing a little bit of freelance work on the side, and I have to admit I really enjoy it. Fighting for public education funding is a huge slog, but it was a major confidence boost when I realized what I was able to bill out my time at without the slightest argument. If I could just freelance at this point I would, but I don't feel qualified to chase the work on my own. Right now it's just a side gig.

Heylel · May 12, 2015

chaos_sl said:
Yeah but I consider myself too old to really do any of that shit. I'll never be the professor who gets paid six figures to sit around fucking with crypto algorithms all day. I'm not complaining, I like my job and I made my choices to support my family. If I had to pick a dream job, that would be it. But of course I am only seeing one facet of it, I am sure there are plenty of shitty things about that dude's job. I bet he has to go beg for grant money, that would suck. And university politics are reeeeeeeeeeeeetarded. Not to mention having to teach a class of 15 where 4 people want to be there and the other 11 are doing it because the university requires it.

I like creating/refining processes as well, so i don't mind the meetings unless they are just circle jerks.

Phazael I do work in national security, but I'm a contractor. My company also has a huge mobile wing that pays comparable to what I make and more, and they aren't outsourcing either. They just had a webinar about how outsourcing ultimately hurts productivity and increases costs. It isn't just my company either, maybe it is the area. idk, my experience reflects more like Cad. People make decent money on salary but to make "fuck you" money you have to form your own consulting group and go rogue.

That first paragraph pretty much describes my life, except for the six figure part.

If you company is hiring anyone in 508 compliance, web access, etc., PM me.

Mist · May 12, 2015

The problem I see is that everyone wants experienced people and no one wants entry level people. But without entry level positions, how are these people supposed to get the experience to fill the experienced positions?

Cad · May 12, 2015

Mist_sl said:
The problem I see is that everyone wants experienced people and no one wants entry level people. But without entry level positions, how are these people supposed to get the experience to fill the experienced positions?

You're only entry level for a couple years, you will be experienced for 30+ years. It only follows that most people in any given career are experienced and most positions will want them. You need to seek out entry level positions, and they will generally be shitty. Thats life.

Column_sl · May 12, 2015

Meh, It's always been like that.

That's why in college they offer internships as part of the credits to get you that experience.

If you are lucky enough to be in field where you can do contract work then get off your ass, and do it. Best way to scope out a future employer anyway, and they get to know you.

All this entitlement everyone has is cry baby bullshit. No one owes you anything in life. Just because you got some worthless degree from college doesn't mean you are automatically going to get a job. Do something about it. Move if you have too.

Deathwing · May 12, 2015

Cad_sl said:
You're only entry level for a couple years, you will be experienced for 30+ years. It only follows that most people in any given career are experienced and most positions will want them. You need to seek out entry level positions, and they will generally be shitty. Thats life.

I've tried applying to entry level positions when I had a few years experience. I was unemployed, can't be picky. The HR for the company(IBM) stipulated that only fresh college graduates could be hired for the position, doesn't matter if I was willing to work that pay or if the manager thought I was best qualified.

So, it's a little of A and a little of B. Companies will definitely ask for too much on their job reqs, but that's usually just HR trying to weed out unqualified candidates. If you match some/most of the keywords, write a good cover letter and apply anyway.

Cad · May 12, 2015

Deathwing_sl said:
I've tried applying to entry level positions when I had a few years experience. I was unemployed, can't be picky. The HR for the company(IBM) stipulated that only fresh college graduates could be hired for the position, doesn't matter if I was willing to work that pay or if the manager thought I was best qualified.

They don't want to hire overqualified people for the same reason they don't want people over 100 IQ to be cops.

Deathwing · May 12, 2015

Whatever their reasons, justified or not, I had the experience of an entry level for that industry. I guess my point was that even companies that offer entry level positions, they don't make it easy to fill. Will I jump ship if my previous job opens up? Maybe, just something you have to suss out in the interview.

moontayle · May 12, 2015

Coming out of my recent degree program, I struggled to find entry level work. Part of it is the area, there's just not a whole lot of programming jobs around here, but I also never heard back from 75% of the positions I did apply for. And aside from the job I did land my longest conversation with anyone regarding work was about something I was capable of doing (build engineer) but had no desire to do (but would have because it would have effectively doubled my pay). Even though my recent graduation was front and center on my resume, I think my 18 years of work experience as a generic IT worker scared some people off. Or maybe it scared their HR scanning program off. Whatever.

Heylel · May 12, 2015

moontayle_sl said:
I also never heard back from 75% of the positions I did apply for.

The worst part about online job applications is the fact that you're basically just funneling your private information down a black hole.

AladainAF · May 12, 2015

Heylel_sl said:
Now, the problem is that all of the jobs get bundled together. You have to be a crack coder AND evaluator AND accessibility expert etc. Companies have diversified positions to the point where the qualifications are absurd. People should be able to specialize, but it's very difficult to find an employer willing to hire someone for one or two exotic, highly specific skills.

Exactly, which is what I stated above and also why I stated the "whaaa we can't find talent" is a load of bullshit. There is PLENTY of talent available, they simply want something very very specialized and are willing to throw away someone who is very talented and meets 90% of their asks. And you know what else sucks? The indian who wants the H1B sponsorship, generally has no problem lying on their resume. I can't tell you how many resumes are designed specifically to pass the automated HR keyword filter only to actually interview these people and they are absolute idiots. The best is the "C++ Experience". "Oh really, you have C++ Coding Experience, that's great, what have you coded"... "well, I was on a team that did X Y Z in C++", "Oh neat, so what part did you code", "Well I.. I.. I teamed up with someone who coded the ABC function which did XYZ", "Oh cool, okay, so you co-wrote that function with him?"... "Well no, Well.. see, I actually don't code C++ but I can understand it", "well okkkay... *show piece of code* so what does this do?"... "Hmm, I havent actually seen C++ like this before........".

Yeah get the fuck out of my interview chair.

Big Phoenix · May 12, 2015

Heylel_sl said:
The worst part about online job applications is the fact that you're basically just funneling your private information down a black hole.

good god this.

Cad · May 12, 2015

AladainAF_sl said:
Exactly, which is what I stated above and also why I stated the "whaaa we can't find talent" is a load of bullshit. There is PLENTY of talent available, they simply want something very very specialized and are willing to throw away someone who is very talented and meets 90% of their asks. And you know what else sucks? The indian who wants the H1B sponsorship, generally has no problem lying on their resume. I can't tell you how many resumes are designed specifically to pass the automated HR keyword filter only to actually interview these people and they are absolute idiots. The best is the "C++ Experience". "Oh really, you have C++ Coding Experience, that's great, what have you coded"... "well, I was on a team that did X Y Z in C++", "Oh neat, so what part did you code", "Well I.. I.. I teamed up with someone who coded the ABC function which did XYZ", "Oh cool, okay, so you co-wrote that function with him?"... "Well no, Well.. see, I actually don't code C++ but I can understand it", "well okkkay... *show piece of code* so what does this do?"... "Hmm, I havent actually seen C++ like this before........".

Yeah get the fuck out of my interview chair.

This is pretty much every Indian ever on every task ever, not limited to C++

Heylel · May 12, 2015

AladainAF_sl said:
Exactly, which is what I stated above and also why I stated the "whaaa we can't find talent" is a load of bullshit. There is PLENTY of talent available, they simply want something very very specialized and are willing to throw away someone who is very talented and meets 90% of their asks. And you know what else sucks? The indian who wants the H1B sponsorship, generally has no problem lying on their resume. I can't tell you how many resumes are designed specifically to pass the automated HR keyword filter only to actually interview these people and they are absolute idiots. The best is the "C++ Experience". "Oh really, you have C++ Coding Experience, that's great, what have you coded"... "well, I was on a team that did X Y Z in C++", "Oh neat, so what part did you code", "Well I.. I.. I teamed up with someone who coded the ABC function which did XYZ", "Oh cool, okay, so you co-wrote that function with him?"... "Well no, Well.. see, I actually don't code C++ but I can understand it", "well okkkay... *show piece of code* so what does this do?"... "Hmm, I havent actually seen C++ like this before........".

Yeah get the fuck out of my interview chair.

Yeah, I had an indian student I supervised for a while who was basically this to a T except it was PHP instead of C++ (so easier). Six months later, he bails and we find out that the site he's been coding is a kitbash of opensource code modules cobbled from around the web. The real kicker? He left in the middle of the semester to join a Y-Combinator team.

I get tired of companies that are unwilling to let a new employee grow into a position. From where I sit, you should *want* someone who is 85-90% ideal and willing to customize the last 10% to the job. Expecting a perfect fit right out of the gate every time is just impossible. Like that code job you mention. If that's what you need, fine, it's a bad fit. On the other hand, if what you need is a great coordinator/designer/evaluator etc. with experience coordinating/designing/evaluating in teams with coders.... that guy might be a great addition. Not every team member needs to be a renaissance man. There's plenty of work out there at this point. No need to lie, except for the fact that everyone is lying so you look inferior if you don't.

Kirun · May 12, 2015

Mist_sl said:
The problem I see is that everyone wants experienced people and no one wants entry level people. But without entry level positions, how are these people supposed to get the experience to fill the experienced positions?

Not only that, but "entry level" by many companies' standards includes a degree(usually a BS), 2-3 years of experience, and/or an internship as part of the requirements, not just the preferred. Then, even if you do pass those ridiculous markers, they're offering 27k/year. What a deal!

Heylel · May 12, 2015

Kirun_sl said:
Not only that, but "entry level" by many companies' standards includes a degree(usually a BS), 2-3 years of experience, and/or an internship as part of the requirements, not just the preferred. Then, even if you do pass those ridiculous markers, they're offering 27k/year. What a deal!

2-3 years experience is the low end these days. I very rarely see job postings looking for less than 5. Hell, my first job out of grad school wanted 5 years experience. It took some effort to get past that filter.

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Bootstrappers guide to being successful.

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole

iannis

Musty Nester

iannis

Musty Nester

Heylel

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Heylel

Trakanon Raider

Heylel

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Mist

REEEEeyore

Cad

scientia potentia est

Column_sl

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Deathwing

Cad

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Heylel

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AladainAF

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Cad

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Heylel

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