Breaking Bad

Tarrant_sl said:

So here's a thought and maybe I missed where it explained it....

Why has Jesse not noticed of seemingly cared that his phone is missing?

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It's not his phone. Saul just have it to him in case he needed to contact him because there was a problem with "his guy". There's no reason for him to think people would be trying to contact him through it.

I'd imagine Hank/Gomez are dead and the Nazis are going to use Jesse to get Walt to comply with them as I'm sure someone has already said.

That's 3 episodes of him trying to save himself and Jesse from the Nazis, the DEA trying to figure out what happened to 2 of their agents, as well as his family when they find out Hank is dead. Skylar and Marie won't be very happy about that and Marie is going to go apeshit

Maybe the shootout was excessively long and no one was getting killed because it was shot as how Walt was experiencing it. He is hunkered down and can't see anything, to him it's going on forever and he has no idea who is getting hit and who isn't. He just hears chaotic gunfire. This is what he thinks is happening. Once the firing stops and he peeks over the door he will see what really went down. Maybe we see a replay of the shootout as it really happened. Over in 5 seconds.

chaos_sl said:

The whole thing is highly selective bullshit.

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Except for the "Mildly poisons Brock", it's all pretty much correct. It amazes me sometimes how people miss what a douchbag Jesse has been throughout the series. But I think it has a lot to do with Jesse being on a redemption arc and Walt being on a "falling from grace" one and people really see things from a relatively perspective of what's happened recently. Which does make some sense, but every time I look at Jesse, all I think about is S4 where he betrayed Walt to Gustavo, after Walt had saved his life numerous times. Watching Jesse's loyalty be dropped because Walt "hurt his feelings" (By telling him the truth.) kind of made the character beyond likeable for me for a while. (Though the actor does a great job making you want to root for him.) Not to mention S1-S3 where Jesse's constant fuck ups had Walt scrambling to save them tons of times, and all Walt got for it was a belligerent asshole who screamed "bitch" because he couldn't fathom how his actions affected others. In the end, I think overall? Jesse was a FAR worse person than Walter right up until S5 when Walter went full Heisenberg.

Anyway, what's selective about that list? All I see is Jesse shoots Gail--which is correct because the killing of Gail was forced by Jesse's initial actions (But I agree it's a myopic in terms of scope as to why). And "mildly poisons" (Obviously it wasn't mild.)

Tarrant_sl said:

The Gail thing on that list is BS, Walt had Jesse kill Gail in order to save their lives.

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Yes, but WHY did they have to kill Gail in the first place? Because of Jesse.

Then Gail's death is the reason Gustavo betrayed Walt, and Jesse went along with it because he was pissy about Walt "making" him kill Gail and "manipulating" him. Which is essentially Jesse speak for telling him the truth, when Walt told him the robbery was fake so Gustavo could build Jesse's confidence and drive a wedge between Walt and him. It's all connected. Gail would NOT have had to die if Walt did not have to save Jesse. Which means Walt would never have earned Gustavo's ire, which means Gustavo wouldn't have started manipulating Jesse to drive a wedge between them and despite ALL of Walt's actions to help Jesse, he still chooses to side with Gustavo--again, the only reason being because Walt was blunt in revealing the truth.. So the whole original reason for Jesse betraying Walt in S4 was due to Walt SAVING Jesse, and then Jesse being dumb.

S3/4 was some bullshit in other words, I hated Jesse's character through most of it. His irrational messes were so retarded.

I like Jesse because I see him as the tragic figure of the show. He's an idiot punk but somewhere down there are the parts of a decent human being. I don't dislike Walt or wish to see him fail or anything but for me he's been the antagonist / villain protagonist of the show from the moment he killed Gus. He's the bad guy. I'm not going to cheer for his success. Now, that's starting to change with this last episode as the white supremacists are being cast as the final source of conflict for the show and may very well kill Jesse, Hank, and Gomez to secure that position to the audience, but I'm still not going to hop back on Walt's side over it.

Arbitrary_sl said:

hop back on Walt's side over it.

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Disliking Jess doesn't mean you are necessarily on Walt's side. Jessi has done some horrible shit and a much larger amount of incredibly stupid shit. This doesn't excuse all the fucked up shit Walt has done.

Arbitrary_sl said:

I like Jesse because I see him as the tragic figure of the show. He's an idiot punk but somewhere down there are the parts of a decent human being. I don't dislike Walt or wish to see him fail or anything but for me he's been the antagonist / villain protagonist of the show from the moment he killed Gus. He's the bad guy. I'm not going to cheer for his success. Now, that's starting to change with this last episode as the white supremacists are being cast as the final source of conflict for the show and may very well kill Jesse, Hank, and Gomez to secure that position to the audience, but I'm still not going to hop back on Walt's side over it.

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Killing Gus is what made him an antagonist/villain? How does that make any sense? Like a couple people have already said, Jesse's the reason Walt had to do the almost all the "bad" things he's done.

Seriously, what kind of shithead takes Gus's side over Walt, when saving Jesse's life is why Gus wanted Walt out in the first place?

Needless_sl said:

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by the lack of talent that Michael Quezada (Gomez) has in acting? Every time this guy is on screen its like he's emotionlessly reciting his lines off a teleprompter or some shit. It annoys me so much because everybody else on the show is increeeeeeeeedibly talented, yet he takes away from most of the scenes he's in.

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Yeah there is not a whole lot of depth there, however lets not forget his role...which is a very distant 2nd fiddle cop. That role doesnt really need to be some emmy worthy performance for it to work. After watching him on talking bad, I think that's pretty much how he is in real life too lol.

I didn't notice until the last episode, but he's pretty bad

Lithose_sl said:

Except for the "Mildly poisons Brock", it's all pretty much correct. It amazes me sometimes how people miss what a douchbag Jesse has been throughout the series. But I think it has a lot to do with Jesse being on a redemption arc and Walt being on a "falling from grace" one and people really see things from a relatively perspective of what's happened recently. Which does make some sense, but every time I look at Jesse, all I think about is S4 where he betrayed Walt to Gustavo, after Walt had saved his life numerous times. Watching Jesse's loyalty be dropped because Walt "hurt his feelings" (By telling him the truth.) kind of made the character beyond likeable for me for a while. (Though the actor does a great job making you want to root for him.) Not to mention S1-S3 where Jesse's constant fuck ups had Walt scrambling to save them tons of times, and all Walt got for it was a belligerent asshole who screamed "bitch" because he couldn't fathom how his actions affected others. In the end, I think overall? Jesse was a FAR worse person than Walter right up until S5 when Walter went full Heisenberg.

Anyway, what's selective about that list? All I see is Jesse shoots Gail--which is correct because the killing of Gail was forced by Jesse's initial actions (But I agree it's a myopic in terms of scope as to why). And "mildly poisons" (Obviously it wasn't mild.)

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Well, Gail had to die because of both of them, not just Jesse. I have no illusions about Jesse, he has done some fucked up stuff. But the list lacks context and clearly just wants to frame Walt as some sort of noble guy while Jesse just ruins everything. For instance: "makes flawless pure meth" juxtaposed against "Leads Crazy 8 and Emilio to his location" isn't fair to Jesse at all. The show pretty well established that Jesse wasn't capable of dealing with those guys, Walt was only because of his desperation due to his illness. Or "Averts Hank away from the RV with fake phone call" versus "says bitch." Not "takes vicious beating from Hank which hospitalizes him and put him off Walt's trail." The list wants to minimize Jesse while boosting up Walt and make the statement Jesse made seem crazy, when it is pretty spot on. Walt lost all sense of a moral compass during his rise to power, he might as well be the devil at this point.

They left out shot Mike and paid for the murder of 8 people on Walt's list.

It is the dumbest fuckin list ever and probably designed to stir up internet troll wars. Flawless pure troll wars.

Drtyrm_sl said:

They left out shot Mike and paid for the murder of 8 people on Walt's list.

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Well, that's after the end of S4. That's really the tipping point where Jesse became a "better" person than Walt. Jesse actually feels remorse, wants to get away from it all...While Walt revels in it and wants to go deeper into the life. However, up until that point? Jesse is an absolute fuck up, who then gets angry at the very people trying to help him. Jesse is probably the worst kind of person, if you've ever known someone like that in real life, who makes mistake after mistake and then gets angry and belligerent (To the point of being aggressive) with the very people who are saving his ass? It will make you vehemently dislike the Jesse character. (Which is why he's written so well, 99% of junkies are JUST like that. It's everyone's fault but their own.)

chaos_sl said:

"takes vicious beating from Hank which hospitalizes him and put him off Walt's trail." The list wants to minimize Jesse while boosting up Walt and make the statement Jesse made seem crazy, when it is pretty spot on. Walt lost all sense of a moral compass during his rise to power, he might as well be the devil at this point.

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Yeah, but here is a good example of Jesse's mind set. Hank beat JessebecauseofJesse'smistake. Walt only called Hank because Jesse fucked up HUGE by stealing the RV rather than destroying it (Like Walt said.) Yet Jesse threatened Walt over it, and essentially told him that he would do things that would most assuredly get Walt killed (By selling Meth, ratting Walt out and bringing Gus down on him.)....So despite the fact thatJessefucked up, and suffered a consequence for his own idiocy--he blamed Walt and threatened him. And the ultimate irony here is that if he had listened to Walt in the first place, none of it would have happened. But he didn't, he was actively trying to fuck over Walt and it blew up in his face and then Walt bailed him out *again* and somehow Jesse still thinks it's Walt's fault.

How does that rational even work? It's mind boggling. It's a pretty classic junkie complex, he just doesn't accept the consequences for his own actions, ever. It's all another person's fault. I probably have a bias because I've known someone like this, so it most certainly does color my view of the character, but I absolutely can't stand people that do that.

However, the way Jesse is portrayed, the fact that he feels so guilty about what he does? (Which the actor conveys really well.)...Really makes him sympathetic, because as you said, it makes him tragic.

No one is bringing Jane's death and Jesse's ill-informed guilt into the equation. He almost slipped past the point of no return in that whole business, brought on by Walt just stepping aside and letting fate take it's course (because he was threatened by her). In the end the only way he managed to cope with her death was to attempt to embrace being a bad person and just accepting it. Even that ended up being a charade. For me, that is one of the most redeeming things about the character. He tried to cast himself into the form of what was staring back at him out of the abyss and ultimately failed because a small shred of humanity stayed within him through everything and in the end, that shred won out.

Royal_sl said:

No one is bringing Jane's death and Jesse's ill-informed guilt into the equation. He almost slipped past the point of no return in that whole business, brought on by Walt just stepping aside and letting fate take it's course (because he was threatened by her). In the end the only way he managed to cope with her death was to attempt to embrace being a bad person and just accepting it. Even that ended up being a charade. For me, that is one of the most redeeming things about the character. He tried to cast himself into the form of what was staring back at him out of the abyss and ultimately failed because a small shred of humanity stayed within him through everything and in the end, that shred won out.

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I wouldn't call blaming Walt for everything Jesse's done as his shred of humanity winning out.

I really don't see what evil things Walt's done