Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

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Lejina

Lejina

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Mist_sl said:
But seriously, colleges need to start treating all their undergrads like children, because they are children, and neither gender is mature enough to take responsibility for their actions.
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Except the law see them as adult and the consequences to their actions are in line with this. Yes, they can be immature, but being legally adults means they need to straighten the fuck up and act as such.

Coddling them, treating them like children and telling them they aren't responsible for their action isn't preparing them to face life once they leave college.

Those who get screwed over by the "more likely than not" policy are just one piece of it. What of the delicate flowers who get on the job market and expect the system to systematically side with them whenever they face a difficulty? Part of college is academic learning, another part is to get out of your parents house and to learn what it is to be on your own and to deal with the consequences of your actions.
 
Mist

Mist

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Lejina_sl said:
Except the law see them as adult and the consequences to their actions are in line with this. Yes, they can be immature, but being legally adults means they need to straighten the fuck up and act as such.

Coddling them, treating them like children and telling them they aren't responsible for their action isn't preparing them to face life once they leave college.

Those who get screwed over by the likely done it policy are just one piece of it. What of the delicate flowers who get on the job market and expect the system to systematically side with them whenever they face a difficulty? Part of college is academic learning, another part is to get out of your parents house and to learn what it is to be on your own and to deal with the consequences of your actions.
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If we're talking about the law, it doesn't see them as adults. The law says that the vast majority of them can't drink. Most of these state party schools are over 50% freshman, and less than 15% Seniors, so over 75% of the kids on campus shouldn't be drinking at all.

And yeah, teaching people that if you do something while you're drunk, you're going to be held responsible for it IS a life lesson, which is why I think kicking both the accuser and the accused out is the best option in those specific cases, and will teach both of them the appropriate lesson.
 
Lejina

Lejina

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Mist_sl said:
If we're talking about the law, it doesn't see them as adults. The law says that the vast majority of them can't drink. Most of these state party schools are over 50% freshman, and less than 15% Seniors, so over 75% of the kids on campus shouldn't be drinking at all.

And yeah, teaching people that if you do something while you're drunk, you're going to be held responsible for it IS a life lesson, which is why I think kicking both the accuser and the accused out is the best option in those specific cases, and will teach both of them the appropriate lesson.
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Where I grew up 18 was legal to drink alcohol and it still is. 21 years old for drinking is far from universal.

Anyway, not my point, when I say the law, I mean all of them. If they break something or hurt someone, they aren't dealing with juvenile anymore, it's the real laws with real consequences for grown up they are dealing with.

Those more likely than not policies aren't doing shit to teach them how the law work tho. The accused get pretty much fucked over, since they are considered guilty until proved otherwise... and they cannot counter interrogate the accuser. Being accused is pretty much your ticket out of college and there isn't much of anything you can do about it. So have fun with that one.

Meanwhile the accuser is pretty much told that even tho they left the house, daddy is still watching over them and will take care of business if they face an unpleasant situation.

That's far cry from an appropriate lesson.
 
khalid

khalid

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Again, regardless of what you think should be actionable behavior (in your case, they got drunk, so kick em out of college!), they should at least be required to prove they did that behavior. Allowing such a low standard of proof that a simple accusation of being drunk could lead to someone being expelled is ridiculous.
 
Mist

Mist

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Jais_sl said:
Wonder how many colleges are in favor of pissing away tuition to teach kids life lessons.
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Uh, there's always someone to take their place, and keep paying that sweet sweet tuition bill. I know my school is always looking for reasons to kick out freshmen, because freshmen cost the least to educate, pay through the nose for on-campus housing and meal plans, and there's always a huge supply of them every year. It's why we flunk more than half of them out every year.
 
Mist

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khalid_sl said:
Again, regardless of what you think should be actionable behavior (in your case, they got drunk, so kick em out of college!), they should at least be required to prove they did that behavior. Allowing such a low standard of proof that a simple accusation of being drunk could lead to someone being expelled is ridiculous.
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Not just being drunk, but being drunk and engaging in sexual misconduct of any kind. And the accuser should face the same penalties if they admit to being willingly drunk, and if they don't admit to being drunk, then they must have consented or have to prove it was forcible rape. I'm actually trying to argue on your guy's side here, just from a different angle.
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

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Mist_sl said:
College has turned into a fucking 4 day long bacchanalian festival from Thursday to Sunday at most schools. Maybe that's not a good idea.
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Considering most students spend several tens of thousands of dollars for what is essentially a useless degree, they might as well get a good time out of the scam that is our education system.

Mist_sl said:
But seriously, colleges need to start treating all their undergrads like children, because they are children, and neither gender is mature enough to take responsibility for their actions.
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Yeah, the way to create adults is to treat people like children forever. Let's turn every college into BYU. That's a good idea. You should be in charge of things.
 
khalid

khalid

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Mist_sl said:
I'm actually trying to argue on your guy's side here, just from a different angle.
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What fucking "side" are you talking about? The drunk sex angle to me is completely beside the point.

I can't wrap my head around you thinking that someone getting drunk should result in them getting expelled, or that an accusation of someone being drunk should be enough to get them expelled as long as they "admit" that they were drunk also. Can't you see how that could be abused? I mean, does innocent until proven guilty mean nothing to you?
 
Mist

Mist

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Sebudai_sl said:
Considering most students spend several tens of thousands of dollars for what is essentially a useless degree, they might as well get a good time out of the scam that is our education system.



Yeah, the way to create adults is to treat people like children forever. Let's turn every college into BYU. That's a good idea. You should be in charge of things.
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By children, I meant 'not old enough to legally drink.' I was talking about holding both parties responsible for their drunken behavior in the case of any accusation involving two drunken individuals under the legal drinking age.

I think there's some reasonable middle ground between Penn State and BYU. And I did say that professors would have to actually start teaching something.

College has turned into a fucking joke.
 
Lejina

Lejina

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Mist_sl said:
Not just being drunk, but being drunk and engaging in sexual misconduct of any kind. And the accuser should face the same penalties if they admit to being willingly drunk, and if they don't admit to being drunk, then they must have consented or have to prove it was forcible rape. I'm actually trying to argue on your guy's side here, just from a different angle.
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That is great, but you know damn well this isn't how these rules are used.

Mind to keep the discussion grounded in reality and not some fantasy?
 
Mist

Mist

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khalid_sl said:
What fucking "side" are you talking about? The drunk sex angle to me is completely beside the point.

I can't wrap my head around you thinking that someone getting drunk should result in them getting expelled, or that an accusation of someone being drunk should be enough to get them expelled as long as they "admit" that they were drunk also. Can't you see how that could be abused? I mean, does innocent until proven guilty mean nothing to you?
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Innocent until proven guilty doesn't even apply in civil law cases, let alone college disciplinary matters.

By your 'side' I mean the guys are saying the accuser should have to take responsibility for their actions as well. So if the accused admits to being willingly drunk, then being the victim of sexual misconduct, they should have to face expulsion too, right?
 
khalid

khalid

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Mist_sl said:
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't even apply in civil law cases, let alone college disciplinary matters.

By your 'side' I mean the guys are saying the accuser should have to take responsibility for their actions as well. So if the accused admits to being willingly drunk, then being the victim of sexual misconduct, they should have to face expulsion too, right?
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I don't give a fuck about that "side". It is flat out absurd that you think someone simply being drunk should get expelled, so I just assume you are trolling in that regard. I was hoping to see some reason in you in regards to what standard of proof should be required to get someone kicked out of school. Apparantly your standard is "who gives a fuck" because its just college.
 
Mist

Mist

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Arbitrary_sl said:
You said a bitter, bitter thing. If we were in person I would have all the non-verbals to go by and this is only just text so reads are inherently scattershot but little throw away comments like that are usually worth picking up and examining more closely. When I combine that with your hated of fat people and some of the other things you've said a picture starts to talk form.

I start to see a once heavy girl that was someone's practice lay who even when she finally lost all that weight didn't get the attention she deserved. Not the good kind at least.

Like I said though, it's just text. At best I'm flipping coins.
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Actually, if you really want to know, my hatred of fat people comes from the fact that I've wasted the past 8 or so years of my life taking care of my 'disabled' mother, when ~40% of her health problems were from being too fat. And now 8 years later, its more like 70% of her problems are from being way too fucking fat.
 
Mist

Mist

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khalid_sl said:
What fucking "side" are you talking about? The drunk sex angle to me is completely beside the point.

I can't wrap my head around you thinking that someone getting drunk should result in them getting expelled, or that an accusation of someone being drunk should be enough to get them expelled as long as they "admit" that they were drunk also. Can't you see how that could be abused? I mean, does innocent until proven guilty mean nothing to you?
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It's not absurd.Preponderance of the evidence, aka, more likely true than not true, is the same standard of evidence used in all US civil law cases. More likely true than not true is actually harder to prove than you think it is.
 
iannis

iannis

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If they're going to be this much trouble we should just stop admitting females. They're all just basketweaving majors with a psychology triple minor anyway.

Their sports teams don't even make money.
 
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