Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

Tanoomba · May 31, 2014

khalid_sl said:
I am not so sure.

Let us say that I'm out on the town, but a little shy. I know, sober, that I might be too shy to ask abunch of girls out. So I drink some alcohol to give myself the courage and hit up the bars. I then wake up in the morning and realize I slept with someone that I never would have sober. Is that rape? Under your definition it seems to fit, yet isn't that entirely the reason why I went drinking in the first place?

You left out the ONLY element that would make it count as rape. Did you take advantage of a drunk person who wouldn't have otherwise slept with you?

Araysar_sl said:
Why is there a distinction between these two things? Because feminists said so?

Because one involves the violation of your body, which believe it or not some people consider a big deal. It can also lead to pregnancy, STDs or other potentially long-term consequences. The fact that you don't understand this is a testament to your stupidity.

Araysar_sl said:
Hate to pee on your feminist parade but choosing to have sex is an active decision, just like choosing to drive a car. Unless that woman is being dragged kicking and screaming to a bed and restrained against her will, she is making an active decision of her own free will.

Signing a contract is an active decision too, right? Why void it if the person was taken advantage of? Take all the time you need to think about it.

Araysar_sl said:
By your definition any woman who has had a drink and had sex is already automatically being taken advantage of. This is hilarious.

Nothing I ever said even remotely implies that. Thanks for trying, though. I know you like to participate.

Here's a ribbon for you.

TrollfaceDeux · May 31, 2014

Technically you can sue back for libel if you make a false accusation.

iannis · May 31, 2014

Do you literally think that all of us are arguing the impossibility of raping a drunk chick?

Cause you might think it's easier that way, but it's not. Alcohol deadens pain and it encourages ludicrous acts of bravery. No indeed, give me the prey that is able to think about consequences and rationally accept the necessity of finite misery.

chaos · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
To trick them into mowing your lawn? No. To fuck them? Yes.

Based on what?

Tanoomba · May 31, 2014

Araysar_sl said:
I enjoyed alcohol all night with a girl in a mutually beneficial situation. We had consensual sex. She woke up the next day said good bye and went home. A day later she accused me of rape because she regretted the night (hard to believe, I know - but work with me here)

By Tardnoomba's standards I am now a rapist. Modern feminism at work. Women are no longer held to any responsibility for their actions or choices.

See, this didn't actually happen (obviously). It doesn't happen, at least not with enough frequency to be considered statistically significant. If you have to make up extremely unlikely scenarios to prove your point maybe it isn't a point worth making. Don't make me take away your ribbon.

khalid · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
You left out the ONLY element that would make it count as rape. Did you take advantage of a drunk person who wouldn't have otherwise slept with you?

I am confused. Sober people do different things than drunk people. This is why many people drink. Even very very very slightly drunk people are different than their perfectly sober self. Alcohol pretty much immediately starts impairing you even at low levels. If I then sleep with someone because they asked me to (let us say half a beer) and then I wake up and regret it, is that rape? Let us say that I wouldn't have slept with them sober. Did they take advantage of me? If they did, does that make it rape? Even though I knowingly drank alcohol to lower my inhibitions in the first place?

I'm not trying to twist your arguments here. I just generally am confused on your stance, since if the standard is "someone I wouldn't have slept with perfectly sober", raping is going on way more often than even the "1/4th of women in college" statistic. So I can't imagine that is what you mean.

Araysar · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
Because one involves the violation of your body, which believe it or not some people consider a big deal. It can also lead to pregnancy, STDs or other potentially long-term consequences. The fact that you don't understand this is a testament to your stupidity.

But you violated my body by tricking me into performing manual labor with my body in the hot sun by having me mow your lawn. It could lead to melanoma, an accident involving lawnmower blades or skin cancer or other potentially long term consequences.

Let's face it, you got nothing here. You are pathetic and so is your straw grasping

Tanoomba_sl said:
Signing a contract is an active decision too, right? Why void it if the person was taken advantage of? Take all the time you need to think about it.

Like many people told you already many times

1. Sex isnt a contract
2. Intoxication doesnt absolve you from responsibility
3. Most courts wont void a contract based on intoxication
4. Being drunk doesnt automatically mean that everything you do means you're being taken advantage of.

Take all the time you need to think about it.

Araysar · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
See, this didn't actually happen (obviously). It doesn't happen, at least not with enough frequency to be considered statistically significant. If you have to make up extremely unlikely scenarios to prove your point maybe it isn't a point worth making. Don't make me take away your ribbon.

It happens extremely frequently. So frequently in fact that this how rape advocacy groups get from 0.01% of all women are raped to 25% of all women are raped.

The fact that you are too stupid to know this, make this thread and your "arguments" even funnier. Well that and your pathetic attempts to infantilize us because you can offer no defense to our arguments.

Araysar · May 31, 2014

This is basically Tanoomba

Alkorin · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
You left out the ONLY element that would make it count as rape. Did you take advantage of a drunk person who wouldn't have otherwise slept with you?

"Wouldn't otherwise have" because why? Because she had one drink, or because she was passed out drunk? There is a veritable mountain of difference between the two. If someone has a single drink, is affected by the alcohol but is still capable of making rational decisions, decides to sleep with someone and then screams "OH MY GOD NO I DIDN'T WANT THIS" the next morning, too fucking bad. Or are you saying otherwise?

Tanoomba · May 31, 2014

Trollface_sl said:
Technically you can sue back for libel if you make a false accusation.

Stop avoiding me, Trollface. Even if you have me on ignore my question to you was quoted.

Does taking advantage of a drunk person for sex count as rape or is your "1/3 of rapes are committed by women" stat bullshit?
You can't have it both ways.

khalid_sl said:
If I then sleep with someone because they asked me to (let us say half a beer) and then I wake up and regret it, is that rape? Let us say that I wouldn't have slept with them sober. Did they take advantage of me? If they did, does that make it rape? Even though I knowingly drank alcohol to lower my inhibitions in the first place?

Good questions. No, if you intentionally consumed alcohol with the intention of getting laid, you weren't raped. In fact, if you went out with the intention of getting laid, you very likely exhibited several social cues to that effect (flirting, dancing, etc). Similarly, if a girl who has been drinking is grinding against you, making suggestive comments and otherwise expressing an interest in fucking you, you wouldn't be "taking advantage" of her.
"So when does it count as taking advantage?" If someone is drinking but is not interested in fucking and has made this clear, and the other party exploits the drinking person's compromised ability to make decisions in order to fuck them anyway, that's taking advantage. For instance, by buying stronger drinks and applying social pressure to consume them, by acting like there is no interest in sex until the person's guard has been lowered then making a move, by attempting to interact with the person only when separated from his/her friends to make sure there is no other influence, etc. Basically, by using alcohol to turn a "no" into a "yes".

Arbitrary · May 31, 2014

Again.

Araysar_sl said:
1. Sex isnt a contract
2. Intoxication doesnt absolve you from responsibility
3. Most courts wont void a contract based on intoxication
4. Being drunk doesnt automatically mean that everything you do means you're being taken advantage of.

chaos · May 31, 2014

So Tanoomba seems to be saying that if you rape a girl while drunk, it's rape. He just doesn't have enough command of the language he teaches others to get this provocative and intriguing point across.

Alkorin · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
No, if you intentionally consumed alcohol with the intention of getting laid, you weren't raped.

Unbelievable.

Listen, stud. Here's how it works. If she didn't say (and by extension, if she wasn't actually capable of saying) "yes, I want you to fuck me", it's rape. Even if she had a drink. Even if you had a drink. Your social cues? Irrelevant. Her social cues? Equally irrelevant. Flirting is not saying yes. Saying yes is saying yes. It's not a difficult concept, but a lot of people have a huge problem with it anyway. Wow.

Being the Casanova you clearly are, I'd have figured you would know about this. Apparently not.

Mist · May 31, 2014

Araysar_sl said:
I enjoyed alcohol all night with a girl in a mutually beneficial situation. We had consensual sex. She woke up the next day said good bye and went home. A day later she accused me of rape because she regretted the night (hard to believe, I know - but work with me here)

By Tardnoomba's standards I am now a rapist. Modern feminism at work. Women are no longer held to any responsibility for their actions or choices.

Just don't have sex with chicks you don't trust to not turn around and be crazy the next day. Problem solved.

Trust used to be part of relationships before sexual activity. Now it's sex first, trust later, generally way later. It doesn't work out very well for anyone. Social acceptance of casual sex has it's inherent downsides.

The fact that girls started friendzoning literally all the men they actually trust doesn't help either. Plenty of blame to go around.

Tanoomba · May 31, 2014

Alkorin_sl said:
"Wouldn't otherwise have" because why? Because she had one drink, or because she was passed out drunk? There is a veritable mountain of difference between the two. If someone has a single drink, is affected by the alcohol but is still capable of making rational decisions, decides to sleep with someone and then screams "OH MY GOD NO I DIDN'T WANT THIS" the next morning, too fucking bad. Or are you saying otherwise?

Everybody keeps saying "decide", as if this isn't something subject to external forces. We've all acknowledged that alcohol impairs judgment. People can be manipulated when they are under the influence of alcohol. For example, they can be manipulated into signing a contract they don't understand, or sleeping with someone when they had no intention of sleeping with anyone. Both are actions that would normally be considered decisions made of one's own free will, but both are the direct result of the influence of an external party exploiting one's compromised state of mind.

Your example is terrible because you explicitly state that the person in question is "still capable of making rational decisions". This is not always the case when alcohol is involved. In fact, I'm talking exclusively about cases where the person in question is NOT capable of making rational decisions. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT TAKING ADVANTAGE.

chaos · May 31, 2014

Mist_sl said:
Just don't have sex with chicks you don't trust to not turn around and be crazy the next day. Problem solved.

Trust used to be part of relationships before sexual activity. Now it's sex first, trust later, generally way later. It doesn't work out very well for anyone. Social acceptance of casual sex has it's inherent downsides.

The fact that girls started friendzoning literally all the men they actually trust doesn't help either. Plenty of blame to go around.

Before sexual activity? Like when we were 8 or back when we reproduced asexually?

Arbitrary · May 31, 2014

Tanoomba_sl said:
Everybody keeps saying "decide", as if this isn't something subject to external forces. We've all acknowledged that alcohol impairs judgment. People can be manipulated when they are under the influence of alcohol. For example, they can be manipulated into signing a contract they don't understand

1. Sex isnt a contract
2. Intoxication doesnt absolve you from responsibility
3. Most courts wont void a contract based on intoxication
4. Being drunk doesnt automatically mean that everything you do means you're being taken advantage of.

Tanoomba_sl said:
or sleeping with someone when they had no intention of sleeping with anyone. Both are actions that would normally be considered decisions made of one's own free will, but both are the direct result of the influence of an external party exploiting one's compromised state of mind.

1. Sex isnt a contract
2. Intoxication doesnt absolve you from responsibility
3. Most courts wont void a contract based on intoxication
4. Being drunk doesnt automatically mean that everything you do means you're being taken advantage of.

Tanoomba_sl said:
Your example is terrible because you explicitly state that the person in question is "still capable of making rational decisions". This is not always the case when alcohol is involved. In fact, I'm talking exclusively about cases where the person in question is NOT capable of making rational decisions. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT TAKING ADVANTAGE.

1. Sex isnt a contract
2. Intoxication doesnt absolve you from responsibility
3. Most courts wont void a contract based on intoxication
4. Being drunk doesnt automatically mean that everything you do means you're being taken advantage of.

Cad · May 31, 2014

Taking advantage of people isn't illegal

Taking advantage of a woman's drunkenness isn't rape, absent force or her being unconscious/incapacitated.

FYI

Tanoomba · May 31, 2014

Araysar_sl said:
But you violated my body by tricking me into performing manual labor with my body in the hot sun by having me mow your lawn. It could lead to melanoma, an accident involving lawnmower blades or skin cancer or other potentially long term consequences.

This is far, far too retarded to respond to. Shame on you.

Araysar_sl said:
1. Sex isnt a contract

Similar enough in legal terms for the purposes of this discussion (just ask our lawyer friend).

Araysar_sl said:
2. Intoxication doesnt absolve you from responsibility

Never said it did.

Araysar_sl said:
3. Most courts wont void a contract based on intoxication

Unless what? Say it with me...

Araysar_sl said:
4. Being drunk doesnt automatically mean that everything you do means you're being taken advantage of.

Never said that either.

Keep on strawmanning.

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