Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

iannis · Jun 2, 2014

Sebudai_sl said:
nice rant, bravo

The real tragedy of social science is that it attracts minds that might otherwise make fairly respectable scientists.

It bothers me less because I've accepted the observation that such a thing as "A Good Priest" is possible and not at all a contradiction in terms. And there are some genuinely good people in "social science" doing some genuinely good work. In mypersonalexperience there are more good ones than bad ones.

But they're all just philosopher priests. The name of their God is secular humanism. There's not very much scientific about any of it. I'm even willing to relax the restrictions of reasonableness. Considering the subject matter they're dealing with reason does not have to be the default position.

It will be an evolutionary moment in time when psychologists get their Newton.

kegkilla · Jun 2, 2014

khalid_sl said:
Well, sure, it is unlikely that someone is going to say in casual conversation "it really sucks that male teachers to the young have alot of people just assume they are weird at best and pedophiles at worst". Yet this is surely the case. See idiots like Kegkilla above.

why the fuck would any normal male want to teach little kids for a living? at best they're weird as fuck, at worst they're a pedo

Araysar · Jun 2, 2014

Sebudai_sl said:
I think I've been reading too much TumblrInAction lately. Shit is seriously infuriating me. This perversion of logic and reason that has corrupted the left lately makes me want to burn something down. Like, you can just assert that there's a rape culture, and then every time something bad happens to a woman, no matter the context, it magically reinforces your unsubstantiated assertion that there's a rape culture. Social "science"!

Game industry isn't pumping out enough games that interest you? Rape culture. Guy takes up too much space on the Subway? Rape culture. Somebody refuses to fuck you because you're a fat fucking disgusting slob that literally hates everything? Rape culture. Dude fails to refer to you using one of your obscur, uniquely preferred pronouns that nobody else on Earth uses? Rape culture. One guy somewhere attacked a woman? Rape culture. All men are socialized to hate women. Do we have to substantiate this with any sort of study? Nope! Just say it. Over and over and over again, and then it becomes a fact! I mean, I didn't think I hated women, but I guess I was just "socialized" to not notice my utter contempt for them. Thanks for setting me straight, social science!

Like, just think about how unscientific concepts like 'privilege' are. This entire soft science community passes this term around like it's a fucking scientific law, and it's just some shit that they made up to explain things that are far too complicated for them to actually understand. Anything can be explained away by the scientific law of privilege, guys. XYZ ethnicity or gender makes more money than another? That's just because of privilege. A person disagrees with you? That's just because they're "privileged" and are unable to empathize with your position. Accept the fact that not all cultures are created equally? Nah, just puss out and blame everything you don't like on privilege. It's an argumentative skeleton key that magically opens up every door and explains everything at all times and in all places.

100% agreed.

I got into a conversation with some feminists the other week about the oft-quoted 77 cents to a dollar gender wage gap. And I was like, thats a very crude statistic taken by just comparing the weekly gross pay of men and women over a year and doesnt factor in things like maternity care, etc or working longer hours. The reality is that the gender wage gap is practically non existent these days. And if you think that 95 cents to a dollar is still unfair, then what? You won't be satisfied until it is exactly a 1:1 ratio regardless of experience, job position, etc.? Fuck, I'd have women earning $1.01 for every dollar I earn so I wouldn't have to have this dumb fucking conversation.

Holy shit, what a firestorm that unleashed. White privilege, male privilege, rape culture, patriarchy, thin privilege - everything was rolled into one giant assault against who I was. Naturally, I curbstomped all these screeching bitches, given my years of debate training on FOH/Rerolled Politics threads, but still it got me thinking that this was becoming more and more prevalent as I read mags like The Atlantic, Salon, Raw Story, etc. That's all they ever do is bitch about people like me who work hard, pay taxes, dont break law and generally lead a civilized life.

I used to be a pretty hardcore liberal but these people make me ashamed to be one. I dont know if I am becoming more conservative or if these people are veering so far to the left that it just makes me look conservative in comparison - but whatever it is, these feminists and racebaiters need to stop their roll before they have people like me (the backbone of the DNC fundraising) start voting for GOP out of spite.

Cad · Jun 2, 2014

Mist_sl said:
Bullshit, 70% of blacks are doing just fine. They have similar incomes to whites, just half the total wealth because of a lack of inherited wealth. The other 30% are just way off the bottom of the scale.

Speaking of made up shit.

Where do you get this idea that half of whites total wealth comes from inheritance? I'm sure you would all agree I'm "privileged" but I've never inherited shit. And probably won't until I'm in my 50's. By then it won't matter to my life one bit.

Article:
The Decline of Inherited Money - The Wealth Report - WSJ

1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation's richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)

I'm assuming Mist wasn't referring to only the 1%, but whites as a group, so it must be the case that even a median-income white has inherited significant sums.

Where's the data? Care to back this up, Mist?

iannis · Jun 2, 2014

Man... you don't talk about race politics with a black friend unless they really ARE a friend. Because that shit is gonna get nasty fast and the only thing that will stop it from devolving into a fistfight is mutual respect.

You NEVER talk about gender politics. That one safeguard does not exist. Women do not understand the concept of mutual respect.

You'll think it was just a friendly conversation and then three months later you draw a month long string of bullshit shifts. And you know. Youknow.

Arbitrary · Jun 2, 2014

Cad, allow me.

"All I was trying to say is that whites inherit most of their wealth. I wasn't talking about recent trends. It was a throwaway line about privilege and not something to be taken apart."

And then you say, "no, whites don't inherit MOST of their wealth."

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

Arbitrary_sl said:
No, it isn't "approaching the levels it used to be." You find data to support that claim. When did it "used to be." Not in the last half century, that's for fucking sure.

Approaching the levels it was 40-50 years ago. "At a 40 year low" means it hasn't been this low in 40 years. And I've got hope with the push for more STEM teachers, that many of them will end up being men, as soon as state and federal governments provide money for more of those teaching jobs.

Arbitrary_sl said:
Men aren't going into teaching because it's a field increasingly hostile to them. Hell, I'll go one step further. Society itself is increasingly hostile towards men. Would you want to be in a field dominated by women if you were a man after that retard went and killed 4 men, 2 women, and himself? There's a whole bunch of hate floating around right now if you haven't noticed.

This is just an absurd claim, what the hell are you even talking about? Men aren't going into education because of future Elliot Rodgers. Anyway, maybe men ARE scared of going into female dominated professions. So that's teachers, healthcare workers that aren't doctors, and food servers. Men still have the rest of the economy, shut the fuck up.

Arbitrary_sl said:
Regarding "boy behavior" and how it was "always punished" are you familiar with the concept of Zero Tolerance? Do I really need to post every fucked up story of a kid making a finger gun and getting expelled? No recess, Zero Tolerance policy, and less male teachers is being reflected in some pretty fucking miserable stats for boys. The fact boys always tended to score worse doesn't mean we can't track things like how much worse. We can even go further to look at how many of them then go to college.

The plural of anecdote is not data. This is a lot like those false rape accusations. Major headline grabbers, but barely statistically significant.

Arbitrary_sl said:
Hey look, less and less males are going to college. Another pretty ugly downward tend line.

No, more people are going to college. Way more people than probably should go to college. So actually more men are going to college than there used to be. It's just that a LOT more women are going to college. And it makes sense. There's plenty of jobs men can get that don't require a college degree that pay a lot more than teachers and nurses.

fanaskin · Jun 2, 2014

Mist_sl said:
Major headline grabbers, but barely statistically significant.

~1 in 11-10is barely significant?

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

Cad_sl said:
Speaking of made up shit.

Where do you get this idea that half of whites total wealth comes from inheritance? I'm sure you would all agree I'm "privileged" but I've never inherited shit. And probably won't until I'm in my 50's. By then it won't matter to my life one bit.

Article:
The Decline of Inherited Money - The Wealth Report - WSJ

I'm assuming Mist wasn't referring to only the 1%, but whites as a group, so it must be the case that even a median-income white has inherited significant sums.

Where's the data? Care to back this up, Mist?

Reading comprehension. I didn't say that whites inherited half of their wealth. I just said that blacks have half as much wealth because of a lack of inherited wealth among black family lines.

That bullshit report you linked is literally useless. That money might not all start as inherited wealth. It doesn't count the fact that your trust fund can accumulate tons of money for you over your lifetime after you got it, and make money for you because you don't need that money to live on. So if you're a rich kid, your money's been working for you your entire life, making you far more money than you actually directly inherited. Plus you never had to dip into your own pocket for the things you needed, and you can put that money to work for you too.

Well in the middle class, the same goes for a house. Even if you don't inherit a ton of actual money, if you've got a house to live in, you don't need to pay rent. Which means you can put the money that you would pay towards rent into a business, into a college education for you, your spouse or your kids, etc. Houses in white neighborhoods also appreciate in value much faster than houses in black neighborhoods.

Anyway, here's the research:

http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Author...thgapbrief.pdf

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/412...cumulation.pdf

Black incomes are up, but wealth isnt | Pew Research Center

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
~1 in 11-10is barely significant?

That's 1 in 10 that actually make it to trial. Then look at the number of rapes that never make it to trial, and the projected number that never get reported. We went over this like 10 pages ago.

Also not every rape trial that doesn't reach a guilty verdict is a false accusation. It just means they were not found guilty without a reasonable doubt. Remember that our justice system is setup to be very forgiving for the accused (unless they're black or poor.)

Cad · Jun 2, 2014

Mist_sl said:
Reading comprehension. I didn't say that whites inherited half of their wealth. I just said that blacks have half as much wealth because of a lack of inherited wealth among black family lines.

That bullshit report you linked is literally useless. That money might not all start as inherited wealth. It doesn't count the fact that your trust fund can accumulate tons of money for you over your lifetime after you got it, and make money for you because you don't need that money to live on. So if you're a rich kid, your money's been working for you your entire life, making you far more money than you actually directly inherited. Plus you never had to dip into your own pocket for the things you needed, and you can put that money to work for you too.

Well in the middle class, the same goes for a house. Even if you don't inherit a ton of actual money, if you've got a house to live in, you don't need to pay rent. Which means you can put the money that you would pay towards rent into a business, into a college education for you, your spouse or your kids, etc. Houses in white neighborhoods also appreciate in value much faster than houses in black neighborhoods.

Anyway, here's the research:

http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Author...thgapbrief.pdf

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/412...cumulation.pdf

Black incomes are up, but wealth isnt | Pew Research Center

From your first link:

inheritance
Most Americans inherit very little or no money, but among the families followed for 25 years whites were five times more likely to inherit than African-Americans (36 percent to 7 percent, respectively). Among those receiving an inheritance, whites received about ten times more wealth than African-Americans. Our findings show that inheritances converted to wealth more readily for white than black families: each inherited dollar contributed to 91 cents of wealth for white families compared with 20 cents for African-American families. Inheritance is more likely to add wealth to the considerably larger portfolio whites start out with since blacks, as discussed above, typically need to reserve their wealth for emergency savings.

So, even though most americans inherit very little or no money, this statement still makes sense? "They have similar incomes to whites, just half the total wealth because of a lack of inherited wealth."

??

I get that you're trying to backpedal inheritance into "all the advantages wealthy families have" but thats not what you said. You said inheritance. And you ascribed that inheritance to ALL WHITE PEOPLE. Not the .01% that have trust funds.

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

Cad_sl said:
From your first link:

So, even though most americans inherit very little or no money, this statement still makes sense? "They have similar incomes to whites, just half the total wealth because of a lack of inherited wealth."

??

I get that you're trying to backpedal inheritance into "all the advantages wealthy families have" but thats not what you said. You said inheritance. And you ascribed that inheritance to ALL WHITE PEOPLE. Not the .01% that have trust funds.

Read the rest of the data about home ownership. You couldn't possibly have looked at everything I linked in that tiny amount of time. You're just cherry picking quotes to attack me.

Regardless, any discussion of wealth is going to be slanted by the fact that 30% of blacks have absolutely nothing and 1% of people who are almost entirely white have like 40% of all the wealth in the entire country. You're right, once you factored out those outliers, you're basically just looking at the effects of home ownership which is still massively significant if you'll read the research.

Cad · Jun 2, 2014

Mist_sl said:
Read the rest of the data about home ownership.

You didn't say home ownership. You said inheritance.

Arbitrary · Jun 2, 2014

Mist, I'm done talking to you about your feelings and the narratives you've been told. You come back with some numbers.

Oh wait, it's fine men aren't going into a workplace hostile to them (good use of the word scared, must be man's fault they aren't pursuing careers where they are not wanted and are viewed with constant suspcision) because they can do work elsewhere!

Men have an ever lower representation in college but that's fine because on a nominal basis there are more people in college? How important is college these days? Having a lower percentage of a particular group of people attending college, is that a good thing or a bad thing.

I mean for fucking real. Take your weak ass shit the fuck out of here. Maybe you can find whatever park bench that Forest "Tanoomba" Gump is sitting on and be his Jennay.

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

Arbitrary_sl said:
Mist, I'm done talking to you about your feelings and the narratives you've been told. You come back with some numbers.

Oh wait, it's fine men aren't going into a workplace hostile to them (good use of the word scared, must be man's fault they aren't pursuing careers where they are not wanted and are viewed with constant suspcision) because they can do work elsewhere!

Men have an ever lower representation in college but that's fine because on a nominal basis there are more people in college? How important is college these days? Having a lower percentage of a particular group of people attending college, is that a good thing or a bad thing.

I mean for fucking real. Take your weak ass shit the fuck out of here. Maybe you can find whatever park bench that Forest "Tanoomba" Gump is sitting on and be his Jennay.

You didn't counter any of my points with facts either. Lots of women are going to college, and they're clogging up liberal arts and social sciences programs that lead to modest at best jobs. Way too many people are going to college, including way too many women. You're not going to get me to disagree.

However, college IS less important for men, because men have access to high paying blue collar jobs if they want them. Isn't that what Mike Rowe has been telling congress for like a decade? That there's 3 million high paying blue collar jobs out there that no one is taking? Try to blame THAT on women.

Butthurt · Jun 2, 2014

Mist;711600 said:
Reading comprehension.

That's your research?
The Brandeis article: "Most Americans inherit very little or no money, but among the families followed for 25 years whites were five times more likely to inherit than African-Americans (36 percent to 7 percent, respectively). The article itself points out earlier that to the extent that this does contribute to the wealth gap, its about 5%.

The Pew Article states, "Researchers have identified severalpossiblefactors - less intergenerational inheritance, higher unemployment and lower incomes, differing rates and patterns of homeownership, marriage and college education -without reaching any consensus on their relative importance. As Low commented, "[t]here is.little quantitative understanding of why the black-white wealth gap exists, despite an almost embarrassing number of potential explanations."

Finally, the Urban.org article doesnt even mention inheritance. To the extent it mentions home ownership, it does so in the context that white families purchased homes prior to the recession in areas less susceptible to a decline in value.

I'll generously grant you the possibility that inheritance might play a role in the wealth gap, but none of your sources could possibly be construed to allow you to affirmatively and conclusively state that "blacks have half as much wealth because of a lack of inherited wealth among black family lines."

Lightning Lord Rule · Jun 2, 2014

Mist_sl said:
You didn't counter any of my points with facts either. Lots of women are going to college, and they're clogging up liberal arts and social sciences programs that lead to modest at best jobs. Way too many people are going to college, including way too many women. You're not going to get me to disagree.

However, college IS less important for men, because men have access to high paying blue collar jobs if they want them. Isn't that what Mike Rowe has been telling congress for like a decade? That there's 3 million high paying blue collar jobs out there that no one is taking? Try to blame THAT on women.

So you're saying women are unable to work blue collar jobs? I thought they were equal to men in every way? Why don't some women skip college and get those blue collar jobs?

I'll answer my own question. Because women only want to take jobs that earn them status, like office work and medical work, or where they have a chance to meet high status men, like high finance or advertising or politics. There are no high status men to meet when you're out framing a house or roofing in the summer sun. Plus, that shit is hard, and they might have to break a sweat. Hypocritical cunts.

iannis · Jun 2, 2014

That tends to happen when you allow the conclusion to drive the support.

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

Gavinrad_sl said:
Whereas blacks seem to split into those who get caught in the dependence culture and those who get caught in the dependence culture.

This is the quote I was originally countering. I was just saying that writing off all blacks as part of the dependence culture is absurd. 70% of blacks are doing great from an income perspective.

Wealth takes time to accumulate. Inter-generational economic benefits would have been a better term than inheritance.

Mist · Jun 2, 2014

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
So you're saying women are unable to work blue collar jobs? I thought they were equal to men in every way? Why don't some women skip college and get those blue collar jobs?

I'll answer my own question. Because women only want to take jobs that earn them status, like office work and medical work, or where they have a chance to meet high status men, like high finance or advertising or politics. There are no high status men to meet when you're out framing a house or roofing in the summer sun. Plus, that shit is hard, and they might have to break a sweat. Hypocritical cunts.

Men aren't taking those jobs either. Anyway, women who are interested in having a family don't go for those jobs, because those jobs aren't conducive to planning a family or raising children. Office jobs are seen as offering safety and benefits during child rearing.

Among the subset of women who have no interest in having a family, participation in those jobs goes up. I know plenty of dykes who do carpentry, renovations, and yes, even roofing.

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