Captain America: Civil War (2016)

Homsar_sl said:

yeah but he is basically just wielding a paper weight

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A perfectly balanced paper weight.

Royal_sl said:

A perfectly balanced paper weight.

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It's all in the swing

Gamma Rays_sl said:

Yeah, it would have been better if the trigger for the fracturing of the group was caused by something more physical or personal.

I don't read the comics, was this divide over signing / not signing, was that a story arc from the comics? Or just something created for this film.

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In the comics it was triggered by reality television.




There was a reality show that followed young hot heroes around doing hero stuff. They were pretty unchecked. At one point during a routine mission a villain asploded himself and killed 600 people, bunch of kids included. Straw that broke the camel's back and all that, folks decided it was time for some oversight. Tony wanted registration, Steve did not. Punch punch kick kick story.

Of course it was all orchestrated by an evil mastermind, it's comics after all.

Yeah, it was more or less the same plot, cap vs tony, but instead of the world being uppity about some obscure country that got blowed up because the good guys couldn't stop the bad guys, it was a high school getting blowed up on live TV because the good guys couldn't stop the bad guys.

Gamma Rays_sl said:

Yeah, it would have been better if the trigger for the fracturing of the group was caused by something more physical or personal.

I don't read the comics, was this divide over signing / not signing, was that a story arc from the comics? Or just something created for this film.

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It was because a dude on super power drugs blew up a fucking school. Then Iron man got all weepy and Captain got all indignant and a robot thor killed a black guy and Reed Richards ran a prision in the middle of a black hole and then firefighters stopped Captain America and then he got shot a little while later and Bucky became Cap.

OH and spider man decided to unmask himself then he immediately regretted it and Iron man got mad at him and Aunt may got shot at and or shot I dont remember. Then they had to have the literal Devil change it so that Spider man could be a vigilante again....fucking Joe Quesada.



It was really dumb.


Then The Hulk came back from Space and ruined everybody's shit and it was awesome.

Thanks for the answers . . . some of what's there reminds me of why I don't read comics books.

I knew people who were into them, a friend in highschool and in my early 20's another person I knew. I'd pick the comics up, have a read of a few . . . but just never found I had any enthusiasm.

Gamma Rays_sl said:

Thanks for the answers . . . some of what's there reminds me of why I don't read comics books.

I knew people who were into them, a friend in highschool and in my early 20's another person I knew. I'd pick the comics up, have a read of a few . . . but just never found I had any enthusiasm.

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The thing is that there is something there for everybody. I actually read in stops and starts because I hate the "tease" of monthly books, and usually only read when they are finished with runs. The last month to month book I picked up was Morrison's Batman run, because I love Morrisons writing convoluted complexity. I need to read the last half of new 52 superman fully.

Saw it finally, would have been better if the catalyst that drove Iron Man and Cap to a brawl was more organic than some random villian with some random reasons for luring just precisely the 3 people needed to create the tension required to make the "big" reveal that results in them trying to beat each other up... which is what they've been doing anyways for the latter half of the movie. I wasn't impressed with the big epic fight scene, it looks like they tried to recreate the animated Justice League fight with the Hulk (which was pretty gnarly) and failed. Scarlet Witch (should) have been able to stop all of the fighting by thinking about it, and the reason they made Vision "miss" his shot? Distracted? Seriously?
I dunno, as a whole it was a decent flick, but too much forced conflict, and for what? Nothing changed in the end.

Black Panther was the highlight of the movie for sure, the actor and design of him was perfect. Spider Man had the one liners but they needed someone older to make it strike the nostalgic nerve.

Yeah obviously Scarlet Witch should've wished everyone gone and that would've been a great scene/end to the movie!

Xevy_sl said:

Yeah obviously Scarlet Witch should've wished everyone gone and that would've been a great scene/end to the movie!

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Even in the scope of the powers they've given her in the MCU, she can lift/shove/incapacitate objects and people. Not sure why stopping a couple hundred tons of falling debris is doable - and at the same time encapsulating a bomb is doable, but she doesn't think to arrest everyone's movement so Cap n Crew can safely board the Quinjet. I mean what would they have done exactly? Iron Man / War Machine would be helpless (she's already shown to stop bullets/projectiles), Black Widow equally useless, and pinning Spiderboy with his arms at his sides makes him equally useless. Vision would be the only one and I don't think he'd come to blows to stop her, and if he tried, I mean she's already put him 6(0) feet under once.

Just seems like a huge cop out to have an overly drama-fied fight sequence which leads to un-necessary injuries to people.

Or yes, she can be a reality-bender like in the comics, and wish everyone were nicer to each other.

Xevy_sl said:

Yeah obviously Scarlet Witch should've wished everyone gone and that would've been a great scene/end to the movie!

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"No more Marvel Universe"

Yeah I don't get that 'Vision missed' shit. Vision DIDN'T miss, Falcon dodged it.

Twilight Sparkle_sl said:

Yeah I don't get that 'Vision missed' shit. Vision DIDN'T miss, Falcon dodged it.

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Classic case of projectile vs hitscan.

Nidhogg_sl said:

Even in the scope of the powers they've given her in the MCU, she can lift/shove/incapacitate objects and people. Not sure why stopping a couple hundred tons of falling debris is doable - and at the same time encapsulating a bomb is doable, but she doesn't think to arrest everyone's movement so Cap n Crew can safely board the Quinjet. .

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Her powers don't seem stable enough for that, really. She usually does things in really short bursts, pretty incredible feats in those short bursts but she hardly ever maintains anything for more than 30 seconds (And the only time she shows fine manipulation/control is on very small objects). I don't see her being able to pin multiple people who can also pick up entire buildings for more than a few seconds, and her powers seem very easy to disrupt. (She's almost helpless when she really needs to focus on something big.) Her power seems like a characters super strength just at range, whenever she's done something impressive its very narrow in its focus (Usually one object) and she can't defend herself. (Just like the other characters when they hold up something super heavy.)

The only time she ever does multiple objects is when she's just pushing them very quickly (So not using her power to make them hover, just lifting, launching and going to a new object.) Unless I'm not remembering?

chaos_sl said:

I don't really get the pro registration argument at all. They kept bringing up New York. So the alternative being they NOT save the world from the invading alien race? Sokovia happened because Tony is fucking around with emergent AI in his garage aka weapons facility. And again the alternative was... they NOT defeat Ultron? They keep pointing out collateral damage as if oversight will somehow fix that problem, or as if oversight is even really possible in this context. And the concept of oversight is immediately abandoned by the two biggest proponents the moment shit started actually going down kind of highlighting how failed an idea it was.

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As Banner said, its probably best to roll over and show your belly when you create a murder bot (Ultron was pretty squarely the Avengers fault; and he did almost succeed in ending mankind--that kind of thing unnerves people). Beyond that though, as the films showed, the Avengers were operating in other countries--yes going after Hydra elements, but how would that go down in the real world...A U.S. based private military team flying into sovereign nations to kill terrorists unchecked, no oversight. Shit some people on these forums don't believe people should be able to have a gun without registering it, most of Europe absolutely agrees with that--is it odd to think people wouldn't be comfortable with people who have the power to level cities if they wanted to? (Most people with that kind of power today have a lot of oversight).

I mean, I agree with you, it seems silly to blame them for a bunch of those scenes, considering they stopped much larger calamities. But wishing to have oversight on an organization that nearly caused human extinction, and has been acting as a international paramilitary group that could probably beat most militaries on earth? That's just human nature to want some say in what they do.

Hoss_sl said:

The thing is, "They" didn't create the murderbot. Tony and banner did. Those 2 should have been brought up on charges, but no one else needed to.

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Did Banner, though? I don't quite remember but I thought Banner was just working with him on research and then Tony decided to unilaterally make changes and activate it.

Hoss_sl said:

The thing is, "They" didn't create the murderbot. Tony and banner did. Those 2 should have been brought up on charges, but no one else needed to.

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It's also been brought up before that someone within failing within an organization reflects on all of them. Even, in the end, banking corporations got Dodd Frank (As much of a joke as it is); and that was only a near financial collapse, what spawned within the Avengers was literally a near extinction event. Heck, the U.S. constantly gets shit for using Drones; and that's a government which participates in the UN and has a ton of democratic checks. The Avengers put troops on the ground in varying countries, and have had their members create a murder bot, or skitz out and flat out attack a sovereign nation (Hulk in Africa)--stuff like that puts people on edge.

But beyond that, a big point is Tony and Banner were not punished, there was no apparatus to even punish them. Which is probably a big part of what made people's assholes pucker. Literally they can do whatever they want and the only people in place to even take action are themselves--there is no oversight. No senate board overseeing them, no council, no method for the will of "the people" to check them. This is the fundamental reason why it's such a cliche in comics that heroes become vigilantes that operate outside the law.

I'm not saying its a good or bad thing (In fact, I think registration is stupid). But it's very understandable, it's exactly what would happen in the real world.

Palum_sl said:

Did Banner, though? I don't quite remember but I thought Banner was just working with him on research and then Tony decided to unilaterally make changes and activate it.

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Yeah, he did. That's why Banner said the murder bot thing. They didn't think they were close to getting it to work, though. But them building the basic framework let Frankstien form. The big thing though was they kept it from everyone else because they knew it was dangerous, it was a force even Thor didn't understand, and Banner was complicit in that and helped conceal it.