Company Raises It's Minimum Wage to $70,000 and All Hell Breaks Loose

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
Given that only the top .01% paid those effective rates and I'm not near that... your assumptions might need adjusting. But how does taxing the rich help the middle class, who get very little if anything from the govt anyway? The poor in the 50's were much worse off than they are now, no?

Well I was assuming you were close to the ~450k (is that right? maybe that was closer to the 50% bracket and 70% was 1 million or so in today's dollars).

Whether or not the poor are better off now than were in 1959 is debatable. In some ways yes they are, and in other ways no they are not:

Who a data portrait | Pew Research Center

It's pretty telling that more working Americans are "poor" today than in 1959 (when data was first collected). By almost 16%.

Today, most poor Americans are in their prime working years: In 2012, 57% of poor Americans were ages 18 to 64, versus 41.7% in 1959.

And childhood poverty is on the rise:

But childhood poverty persists: Poverty among children younger than 18 began dropping even before the War on Poverty. From 27.3% in 1959, childhood poverty fell to 23% in 1964 and to 14% by 1969. Since then, however, the childhood poverty rate has risen, fallen and, since the 2007-08 financial crisis, risen again.

In other words, its hard to say if the social programs enacted are doing their jobs or perpetuating cycles. Keep in mind I'm arguing for helping to get people off social programs so they can make their own way.

Vaclav · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
How much do you want, I already paid close to 35% in federal income tax, counting sales and property taxes my tax burden is over 40%. How much do you want?

After deductions? That seems incredibly hard to believe.

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

Khane_sl said:
Well I was assuming you were close to the ~450k (is that right? maybe that was closer to the 50% bracket and 70% was 1 million or so in today's dollars).

I wouldn't pay the top rate in any of these until the 1981 cuts, my AGI was more than that last year (looking at the adjusted for 2014 income rates).

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
I wouldn't pay the top rate in any of these until the 1981 cuts, my AGI was more than that last year (looking at the adjusted for 2014 income rates).

Yea I hadn't looked at the chart in a while, so you were closer to the 50% bracket. Still more than you get taxed today but not by that much (because of marginal tax rates).

Mist · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
How much do you want, I already paid close to 35% in federal income tax, counting sales and property taxes my tax burden is over 40%. How much do you want?

You keep continuing to conflating this. Your tax dollars aren't going to be taken to pay people if the minimum wage goes up.

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

Khane_sl said:
Yea I hadn't looked at the chart in a while, so you were closer to the 50% bracket. Still more than you get taxed today but not by that much (because of marginal tax rates).

And nobody I know would have paid the top rate, I mean look at those incomes, you need to make 2.5M/yr to pay the top rate? What the fuck, nobody except yacht-owning mother fuckers make that much, and they can structure their income to escape it anyway.

Mist · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
The companies who are our clients definitely do employ minimum wage workers in some capacity? If those businesses are hurt, that would directly hurt my business.

Anyone making under ~20 dollars an hour basically spends all of their money coming in. Whatever more money you pay these people just becomes someone else's profit instantly. On the whole nothing would change here.

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

Mist_sl said:
You keep continuing to conflating this. Your tax dollars aren't going to be taken to pay people if the minimum wage goes up.

Try reading the post I was replying to.

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
And nobody I know would have paid the top rate, I mean look at those incomes, you need to make 2.5M/yr to pay the top rate? What the fuck, nobody except yacht-owning mother fuckers make that much, and they can structure their income to escape it anyway.

I think we're agreeing here. The tax breaks only really help the people who don't need any help.

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Anyone making under ~20 dollars an hour basically spends all of their money coming in. Whatever more money you pay these people just becomes someone else's profit instantly. On the whole nothing would change here.

Uhh... the economy would shift to making more goods for lower income people and less goods for higher income people, since higher income people would have less money to spend in the economy, relatively. However you want to spin that, you're still taking my shit and giving it to someone else, unless you believe that wealth redistribution will stimulate the economy so much that everyone's ship rises and I make more than I lost...

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

Khane_sl said:
I think we're agreeing here. The tax breaks only really help the people who don't need any help.

I don't think those type of top marginal tax rates would change much except keeping accountants and lawyers in business evading them for their clients. I'm not saying it's pointless to have them, you'd just have to remove all the loopholes and employ folks to ensure they are enforced on the 30 thousand or so people in this country that actually make that much.

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
unless you believe that wealth redistribution will stimulate the economy so much that everyone's ship rises and I make more than I lost...

That's the theory.

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
I don't think those type of top marginal tax rates would change much except keeping accountants and lawyers in business evading them for their clients. I'm not saying it's pointless to have them, you'd just have to remove all the loopholes and employ folks to ensure they are enforced on the 30 thousand or so people in this country that actually make that much.

That goes without saying. I don't think you and I disagree on a fundamental level, we are just kind of sitting on opposite sides of the table for argument's sake

Fifey · Aug 18, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Anyone making under ~20 dollars an hour basically spends all of their money coming in. Whatever more money you pay these people just becomes someone else's profit instantly. On the whole nothing would change here.

Wut?

I make 17 / hour and have around 5 to 600 a month of disposable income but I don't have a desire to drive a nice car or impress people with my status items.

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

fifey_sl said:
Wut?

I make 17 / hour and have around 5 to 600 a month of disposable income but I don't have a desire to drive a nice car or impress people with my status items.

Well you're obviously much smarter with your money than most Americans, but do you feel secure at that income level and is that disposable income amount with or without paid overtime?

The Ancient_sl · Aug 18, 2015

Cad_sl said:
Uhh... the economy would shift to making more goods for lower income people and less goods for higher income people, since higher income people would have less money to spend in the economy, relatively. However you want to spin that, you're still taking my shit and giving it to someone else, unless you believe that wealth redistribution will stimulate the economy so much that everyone's ship rises and I make more than I lost...

Well what's a fair number for you Cad? If your tax rate goes up 7% and your effective income after taxes turns from 18x that of the bottom50%of Americans to only 15x, do you really feel persecuted?

Fifey · Aug 18, 2015

Khane_sl said:
Well you're obviously much smarter with your money than most Americans, but do you feel secure at that income level and is that disposable income amount with or without paid overtime?

I get about 1 to 2 hours of overtime a check and yeah, I feel comfortable.

I also managed to live in Arizona on 8 bucks an hour back when I was an apprentice, I had roommates but I didn't need foodstamps or anything, just need to be able to eat cheap and buy used.

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

The Ancient_sl said:
Well what's a fair number for you Cad? If your tax rate goes up 7% and your effective income after taxes turns from 18x that of the bottom50%of Americans to only 15x, do you really feel persecuted?

Persecuted? No, but I don't see why I should support it either.

Khane · Aug 18, 2015

fifey_sl said:
I get about 1 to 2 hours of overtime a check and yeah, I feel comfortable.

I also managed to live in Arizona on 8 bucks an hour back when I was an apprentice, I had roommates but I didn't need foodstamps or anything, just need to be able to eat cheap and buy used.

So just for argument's sake, would you still feel secure at that pay level if you had a family with at least one child and needed your own place without roommates?

Or rather, would you start a family at your current pay level?

Cad · Aug 18, 2015

Khane_sl said:
So just for argument's sake, would you still feel secure at that pay level if you had a family with at least one child and needed your own place without roommates?

Or rather, would you start a family at your current pay level?

So now the standard is going to be if you can't securely start a family ?

Company Raises It's Minimum Wage to $70,000 and All Hell Breaks Loose

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