Company Raises It's Minimum Wage to $70,000 and All Hell Breaks Loose

Khane_sl said:

So just for argument's sake, would you still feel secure at that pay level if you had a family with at least one child and needed your own place without roommates?

Or rather, would you start a family at your current pay level?

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No but why are children a guaranteed right?

Cad_sl said:

Persecuted? No, but I don't see why I should support it either.

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The easy answer is that it's to society's benefit.

wormie_sl said:

Replace welfare and food stamps with guaranteed minimum income. Its coming sooner or later anyway, might as well get a head start.

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Precisely.

Mist_sl said:

Why are we even talking about taxes? Taxes and minimum wage have little-to-nothing to do with each other.

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If anything a minimum wage bump should help with taxes on the wealthier folks slightly - less for welfare/food stamps/other assistance programs should be necessary with a minimum wage bump.

Cad_sl said:

Reasonable minds can differ as to what will most benefit society.

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Of course that's true to an extent, but your argument that society benefits more when you have more money isn't particularly strong. My argument that society benefits when the wealth gap is smaller is not only less self-serving, I also have more data to back it up.

I have an economic question out of general curiosity.

If minimum wage is 15 an hour nation wide, wouldnt most bottom tier be out of a job since more skilled and harder working people would take those options since they are now viable?

I ask because I remember millenials having a hard time getting a part time job back in the recession because more qualified people were taking second jobs cause money was tight.

fifey_sl said:

I have an economic question out of general curiosity.

If minimum wage is 15 an hour nation wide, wouldnt most bottom tier be out of a job since more skilled and harder working people would take those options since they are now viable?

I ask because I remember millenials having a hard time getting a part time job back in the recession because more qualified people were taking second jobs cause money was tight.

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Not necessarily because most companies realize hiring overqualified people leads to high turnover. Those overqualified people never stop looking for a job that is more suitable to them and leave as soon as they find one.

But this also assumes there are a high amount of unemployed people who weren't willing to take a minimum wage job because the wage was too low OR lazy people who would take a minimum wage job because now it's almost as much or as much as they currently make at their above minimum wage job? I have a hard time seeing where someone would give up being an office clerk to go work at McDonald's if the pay were the same.

Cad_sl said:

So now the standard is going to be if you can't securely start a family ?

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Not at all, I just want to see if he was reasonable because it originally sounded like he was saying if he could do it anyone could, regardless of living situation. But he's obviously a reasonable person based on his answer below yours.

BrutulTM_sl said:

That is an extremely idealistic view of the poor in the US. Maybe these people exist, but I haven't seen them. Everywhere I have been in my 38 years anyone who didn't have a job for more than 6 months didn't want one and anyone that is not a student and makes minimum wage is a fuck up. As I have said in the past, I have these people in my family and when you actually know these poor people you understand that their situation has nothing to do with the 1% or DC lobbyists or the economy and everything to do with the fact that they are lazy and/or make really bad choices. I don't necessarily condemn them for this, because in most cases they had terrible parents and shitty childhoods and never had anyone to teach them how not to be a fuckup, but fuckups they are. If there is a person out there who is not seriously retarded and has been sincerely looking for a better than minimum wage job for more than a year and been unable to find one, I would like to hear that story.

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How much is better? Half this country makes 12 bucks an hour or less.

These people are not below the poverty line, but they certainly aren't living well. Giving them a little more certainly isn't going to change everything in this country, but it's to more benefit than giving someone making half a million a lot more.

Khane_sl said:

Not necessarily because most companies realize hiring overqualified people leads to high turnover. Those overqualified people never stop looking for a job that is more suitable to them and leave as soon as they find one.

But this also assumes there are a high amount of unemployed people who weren't willing to take a minimum wage job because the wage was too low OR lazy people who would take a minimum wage job because now it's almost as much or as much as they currently make at their above minimum wage job? I have a hard time seeing where someone would give up being an office clerk to go work at McDonald's if the pay were the same.

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I can say that in my field(auto body work), you would not be able to have an apprentice anymore since their pay comes from your check and they are usually unable to offset their cost until around the 6mo to 1 year mark and that's only at 10 an hour.

BrutulTM_sl said:

That is an extremely idealistic view of the poor in the US. Maybe these people exist, but I haven't seen them. Everywhere I have been in my 38 years anyone who didn't have a job for more than 6 months didn't want one and anyone that is not a student and makes minimum wage is a fuck up. As I have said in the past, I have these people in my family and when you actually know these poor people you understand that their situation has nothing to do with the 1% or DC lobbyists or the economy and everything to do with the fact that they are lazy and/or make really bad choices. I don't necessarily condemn them for this, because in most cases they had terrible parents and shitty childhoods and never had anyone to teach them how not to be a fuckup, but fuckups they are. If there is a person out there who is not seriously retarded and has been sincerely looking for a better than minimum wage job for more than a year and been unable to find one, I would like to hear that story.

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So you realize some people are "fuckups" because they didn't ever get taught and don't know how to not be a "fuckup". The issue for some of us is by treating them like slaves and never allowing them to have a chance even if they do work full time and at least try to contribute to society we are hurting ourselves, as non fuckups, in the long run. I've already linked the evidence I believe is compelling enough to come to such a conclusion. Some people here are arguing out of a sense of altruism I suspect but for myself I'm arguing that our economic outlook has turned into a sine curve and that doesn't make me comfortable about my own financial future. I know I'll be "fine" but I want to be more than fine and I think by relieving the burden the working classes feel we will increase economic activity on the whole and stabilize our own futures as well as relieve some of the tax burden the lower classes carry by removing the tax breaks we've given to the ultra wealthy and closing tax loopholes afforded to corporations in this country. Let employers start doing their part.

The only argument I hear for not increasing minimum wage is "Working at McDonald's is for college kids!" or "If you can't get a real job you're a loser!". Meanwhile these people have real jobs. Working at McDonald's is a real job. The franchisees who open up a location make a killing and can easily afford to pay their workers more and they didn't open those locations for the sake of part time work for kids. They did it to turn a profit selling food and they need employees to do so. That's a business and businesses need to step the fuck up and pay their employees a reasonable wage.

fifey_sl said:

I can say that in my field(auto body work), you would not be able to have an apprentice anymore since their pay comes from your check and they are usually unable to offset their cost until around the 6mo to 1 year mark and that's only at 10 an hour.

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You're only making $17/hr for AB work? That seems astronomically low for the cost of labor on those jobs.

fifey_sl said:

I can say that in my field(auto body work), you would not be able to have an apprentice anymore since their pay comes from your check and they are usually unable to offset their cost until around the 6mo to 1 year mark and that's only at 10 an hour.

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You'd be a fool to give up the upward mobility that can come with being a good mechanic over the course of a lifetime to go work at a McDonald's that, while it can have some upward mobility, doesn't really have the same type of guarantee. That's very short term thinking. I know that some people would do it, there is no denying it. I don't think it would be widespread though.