Crowfall

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Bondurant

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,845
4,792
When it's about PvP, defending your shit or taking the enemy's, I think persistence does matter, so anyone can see what's going on at any point (like EvE influence map). When you take some stuff to make a point, or the enemy takes yours, there's a strong warfare feel, like "hey guys, we're taking this castle but unless we say so or the enemy stomps us and take it back, it's ours forever". If maps get reset every few weeks / months, none of that matters. Why would anyone give a damn about castles that probably won't be up come next month / campaign. I don't really enjoy PvP when it feels instanced / non-persistent. Don't reset our shit, please.
 

Vitality

HUSTLE
5,808
30
Gordon Walton on his involvement with SW:G NGE - Says it's his fault.CF.GG Link

Gordons Official forum post:

Now that SOE is gone (long live Daybreak Games!) we should go ahead and have the Star Wars:Galaxies NGE discussion.

I?ll start with the easy part: The NGE was my fault.

I?ll also say that memory is an imperfect thing, particularly around emotional circumstances, so I won?t say this is 100% accurate, but it?s the way I remember it.

I was running SWG starting before the Jump to Lightspeed expansion was announced. This wouldn?t have happened if SOE had been happy with the size and thus profitability of the game. Expectations had been that SWG would be as big, if not bigger than EQ which at the time was ~500k players. SWG had briefly gone over 400k but settled down into a 200-250k level. The Holicron addition and hints on how to get a Jedi ended up slowing net growth of the game and undermined the in-game community as people tried to macro their way to Jedi.

We had hoped that by adding the ?Stars? in Star Wars (i.e. space vehicles and flight) that the game would grow significantly. But SWG had more fundamental issues around the combat system (which hadn?t gotten nearly enough iteration before launch), and an overwhelming amount of bugs, balance tuning and missing features for the dozens of various professions was holding the game back. The team was constantly working against a giant backlog of these issues just to keep the players we had retained.

SWG was a real masterpiece in many ways. The team, led by Rich Vogel, John Donham and Raph Koster, built an amazing game, both in scope and AAA presentation. It had a character customization system that was the state of the art for the time (and still better than many we see today). An amazing diversity of professions and skill trees. Some extremely innovative design and gameplay roles were first seen in SWG. Having a player council was a SWG innovation. Rather than using the EQ technology, and entire new engine was created to match the requirement of SWG. And this was all done for <$18m in <3 years (2 years and 9 months), launching in June 2003. This was and remains unprecedented achievement in building a AAA MMO. And like so many MMOs, it was launched far too soon for financial reasons, so there were plenty of problems at launch and beyond.

After the Jump to Lightspeed expansion launched (Oct 2004), it was clear that our audience size was clearly <300k and that was not acceptable to SOE (or to LucasArts).

We were working hard to fix the bugs, missing features and trying to make the audience happier so we could grow. But that was a slow grind, even though SOE had added significantly more development resources in 2004 when I joined the team along with my team that had been working on an unannounced SOE project.

Elements of the SWG team had this idea that maybe we should build a second Star Wars game that was focused on the ?War? in Star Wars. It would be large scale battle game for planetary conquest. That way we could have more people in bigger battles (the character customization in SWG was far too detailed to have lots of players on the screen without significant performance issues). We could have a game where people fought over planets and they?d be dominated by either the Rebels or the Empire until they switched hands again in a galactic strategy game. We could build a real twitch combat system that was less turn based and more visceral. It was a very exciting idea.

I championed an idea to SOE and LucasArts that we build this game with a new team, sell it as a separate product, but actually share the universe with SWG. No matter which game you initially joined, your subscription would give you access to both games. You?d have a battle game and a role playing game all together. The battles would take place on new worlds, but the outcomes would affect who owned the SWG worlds, such that the worlds in SWG would change who owned the government buildings and towns, empire and rebel banners swapping out, storm troopers patrolling where formerly the rebel soldiers would have been found. And an overall strategy game at the planetary level, bringing the ?Wars? to Star Wars.

Management was excited about this concept until the cost of this new game was clear and neither company (SOE or LucasArts) wanted to (or were able) make that investment. But the thought remained that a Star Wars game with more ?Wars? in it could be huge.

A prototype of the combat and faction switching in a town had been built. That and the launch World of Warcraft game influenced the development of the Combat Upgrade (Apr 2005) and following New Game Experience (Nov 2005).

The context at that time was that World of Warcraft had launched in November 2004, and so had Everquest 2. Everquest 2 clearly didn?t meet expectations as WOW took off, even with their early shortages of product. Almost every other MMO in the market got less play and less acquisition as WOW took market share. So there were noticeable financial stresses on SOE and all the other MMO companies.

I participated in the early planning for the NGE, and I was told to execute it over my and many others on the SWG teams? objections. I failed as an effective communicator in my attempts to change this course. In March of 2005 my boss came to Austin for a visit, and I told him I was going to refuse to move forward on the NGE development and launch. I had assessed that it would be a breach of my fiduciary duty to do so. I believed (and told him) that launching the planned NGE would alienate the customer base, cause at least half of them to quit and lose the company 10?s of millions of dollars. At the same time I told him he deserved to have people that worked for him do what he said, and I was sorry I was being intransigent. A week later I was terminated, and frankly I was never happier to be fired. I don?t blame my management, as I basically made them do it. Being in conflict with your management is never fun, but doing something you don?t believe in is worse.

I watched the launch and outcome of the NGE launch closely. I actually hoped that the NGE would work out, as that would have meant that I?d have to revisit my entire mental framework on working with MMO communities. But the customer losses were significant, and the blow to both the SWG and SOE brands was noticeable. Destroying player persistence, the professions they?d put months or years of work into, along with their identities, to make the game ?better? for new customers wasn?t a win from my external assessment. Many of those alienated customers became activists against SOE due to their losses, and the bad feelings around this change to SWG continues with ex-customers to this day.

I want to stress that everyone that I knew who were involved with SWG at SOE and at LucasArts were trying to do the best thing as they saw it for their companies and for the long-term benefit of the game. I just didn?t believe then or now that it was right thing to do from a customer stewardship and fiduciary standpoint.

So I feel I am responsible for the NGE, because the impetus came from an idea I initially championed, which I as unable to deflect when it was being mis-applied to SWG.

Again, the lesson of messing with the core of a game design in order to try and grow revenue being a likely recipe for disaster was demonstrated to me. And I had yet another Forest Gump-type moment in MMO history in my career.

It?s OK to grieve a bit if appropriate for you. I don?t want to see bashing of John Smedley or any of the other folks I know and respect at the former SOE. It?s easy to demonize someone for doing something risky when the results turn out poorly. And we need risk takers to get innovation. What?s more valuable is to figure out how to avoid making major mistakes in the first place, and coming up with more creative ways to solve these combination of game/community/business problems.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,358
80,720
Wow, I never knew he told him the wouldn't implement it and he was terminated. I wonder what the other side to the story was. Probably, "This fucking guy spends X million dollars creating content and now he wants us to flush it down the toilet."
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,358
80,720
When it's about PvP, defending your shit or taking the enemy's, I think persistence does matter, so anyone can see what's going on at any point (like EvE influence map). When you take some stuff to make a point, or the enemy takes yours, there's a strong warfare feel, like "hey guys, we're taking this castle but unless we say so or the enemy stomps us and take it back, it's ours forever". If maps get reset every few weeks / months, none of that matters. Why would anyone give a damn about castles that probably won't be up come next month / campaign. I don't really enjoy PvP when it feels instanced / non-persistent. Don't reset our shit, please.
I see what you mean and I agree with your criticisms of it. Having done much more of the 'compete at release, build a castle and then defend it for the rest of the server's life' than the campaign option in GW2/ESO I feel like I have more pride in our 72-4 record in GW2 and bringing 4 different servers to the #1 spot (Especially when we went to Seafarer's Rest) than I do in say, Shadowbane, Age of Conan or ArcheAge where we built a city and then defended it.

Maybe it's just because of the mechanics but I never felt the defenses were that important or brag worthy. I feel like the notable thing was competing in a FFA environment built on resource generation and being the first group in both SB/AoC in the world to make a keep. The part that happened afterwards of defending it? Who cares, the glory was already won.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,766
617
I like what they're doing. It gives them options long term if the concept isn't working out. They can always add a new continent down the line that doesn't reset.
 

Thlayli

Lord Nagafen Raider
78
21
Cool post from Gordon, but one thing worries me. It cost 18 million and 2.75 years to do SWG, and they want to do Crowfall with a quarter of the money in (presumably) less time. I guess the scope of Crowfall is smaller, but still...makes you worry they're going to have financial issues.
 

Srathor

Vyemm Raider
1,882
3,037
Crowfall doesn't have to have the expense of license fees.

Lucas the hutt is a greedy bastard.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
277
I see what you mean and I agree with your criticisms of it. Having done much more of the 'compete at release, build a castle and then defend it for the rest of the server's life' than the campaign option in GW2/ESO I feel like I have more pride in our 72-4 record in GW2 and bringing 4 different servers to the #1 spot (Especially when we went to Seafarer's Rest) than I do in say, Shadowbane, Age of Conan or ArcheAge where we built a city and then defended it.

Maybe it's just because of the mechanics but I never felt the defenses were that important or brag worthy. I feel like the notable thing was competing in a FFA environment built on resource generation and being the first group in both SB/AoC in the world to make a keep. The part that happened afterwards of defending it? Who cares, the glory was already won.
The way you describe your experience in GW2 makes it sound like a tournament or soccer season. That's exactly what I dont like about modern MMO pvp, it's too "sportified". If I want a fair match in a controlled environment I load up LoL or SC2.
 

Teekey

Mr. Poopybutthole
3,644
-6,335
Crowfall also doesn't have quests, and 'few' NPCs. They really just have to create the systems, and let players go at it.

They're also using a lot of middleware, which will cut down on development. It could end up biting them in the ass in the long run, but we'll just have to wait and see.
 

Bondurant

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,845
4,792
Gordon Walton on his involvement with SW:G NGE - Says it's his fault.CF.GG Link

Gordons Official forum post:

Now that SOE is gone (long live Daybreak Games!) we should go ahead and have the Star Wars:Galaxies NGE discussion.

I'll start with the easy part: The NGE was my fault.

I'll also say that memory is an imperfect thing, particularly around emotional circumstances, so I won't say this is 100% accurate, but it's the way I remember it.

I was running SWG starting before the Jump to Lightspeed expansion was announced. This wouldn't have happened if SOE had been happy with the size and thus profitability of the game. Expectations had been that SWG would be as big, if not bigger than EQ which at the time was ~500k players. SWG had briefly gone over 400k but settled down into a 200-250k level. The Holicron addition and hints on how to get a Jedi ended up slowing net growth of the game and undermined the in-game community as people tried to macro their way to Jedi.

We had hoped that by adding the "Stars" in Star Wars (i.e. space vehicles and flight) that the game would grow significantly. But SWG had more fundamental issues around the combat system (which hadn't gotten nearly enough iteration before launch), and an overwhelming amount of bugs, balance tuning and missing features for the dozens of various professions was holding the game back. The team was constantly working against a giant backlog of these issues just to keep the players we had retained.

SWG was a real masterpiece in many ways. The team, led by Rich Vogel, John Donham and Raph Koster, built an amazing game, both in scope and AAA presentation. It had a character customization system that was the state of the art for the time (and still better than many we see today). An amazing diversity of professions and skill trees. Some extremely innovative design and gameplay roles were first seen in SWG. Having a player council was a SWG innovation. Rather than using the EQ technology, and entire new engine was created to match the requirement of SWG. And this was all done for <$18m in <3 years (2 years and 9 months), launching in June 2003. This was and remains unprecedented achievement in building a AAA MMO. And like so many MMOs, it was launched far too soon for financial reasons, so there were plenty of problems at launch and beyond.

After the Jump to Lightspeed expansion launched (Oct 2004), it was clear that our audience size was clearly <300k and that was not acceptable to SOE (or to LucasArts).

We were working hard to fix the bugs, missing features and trying to make the audience happier so we could grow. But that was a slow grind, even though SOE had added significantly more development resources in 2004 when I joined the team along with my team that had been working on an unannounced SOE project.

Elements of the SWG team had this idea that maybe we should build a second Star Wars game that was focused on the "War" in Star Wars. It would be large scale battle game for planetary conquest. That way we could have more people in bigger battles (the character customization in SWG was far too detailed to have lots of players on the screen without significant performance issues). We could have a game where people fought over planets and they'd be dominated by either the Rebels or the Empire until they switched hands again in a galactic strategy game. We could build a real twitch combat system that was less turn based and more visceral. It was a very exciting idea.

I championed an idea to SOE and LucasArts that we build this game with a new team, sell it as a separate product, but actually share the universe with SWG. No matter which game you initially joined, your subscription would give you access to both games. You'd have a battle game and a role playing game all together. The battles would take place on new worlds, but the outcomes would affect who owned the SWG worlds, such that the worlds in SWG would change who owned the government buildings and towns, empire and rebel banners swapping out, storm troopers patrolling where formerly the rebel soldiers would have been found. And an overall strategy game at the planetary level, bringing the "Wars" to Star Wars.

Management was excited about this concept until the cost of this new game was clear and neither company (SOE or LucasArts) wanted to (or were able) make that investment. But the thought remained that a Star Wars game with more "Wars" in it could be huge.

A prototype of the combat and faction switching in a town had been built. That and the launch World of Warcraft game influenced the development of the Combat Upgrade (Apr 2005) and following New Game Experience (Nov 2005).

The context at that time was that World of Warcraft had launched in November 2004, and so had Everquest 2. Everquest 2 clearly didn't meet expectations as WOW took off, even with their early shortages of product. Almost every other MMO in the market got less play and less acquisition as WOW took market share. So there were noticeable financial stresses on SOE and all the other MMO companies.

I participated in the early planning for the NGE, and I was told to execute it over my and many others on the SWG teams' objections. I failed as an effective communicator in my attempts to change this course. In March of 2005 my boss came to Austin for a visit, and I told him I was going to refuse to move forward on the NGE development and launch. I had assessed that it would be a breach of my fiduciary duty to do so. I believed (and told him) that launching the planned NGE would alienate the customer base, cause at least half of them to quit and lose the company 10's of millions of dollars. At the same time I told him he deserved to have people that worked for him do what he said, and I was sorry I was being intransigent. A week later I was terminated, and frankly I was never happier to be fired. I don't blame my management, as I basically made them do it. Being in conflict with your management is never fun, but doing something you don't believe in is worse.

I watched the launch and outcome of the NGE launch closely. I actually hoped that the NGE would work out, as that would have meant that I'd have to revisit my entire mental framework on working with MMO communities. But the customer losses were significant, and the blow to both the SWG and SOE brands was noticeable. Destroying player persistence, the professions they'd put months or years of work into, along with their identities, to make the game "better" for new customers wasn't a win from my external assessment. Many of those alienated customers became activists against SOE due to their losses, and the bad feelings around this change to SWG continues with ex-customers to this day.

I want to stress that everyone that I knew who were involved with SWG at SOE and at LucasArts were trying to do the best thing as they saw it for their companies and for the long-term benefit of the game. I just didn't believe then or now that it was right thing to do from a customer stewardship and fiduciary standpoint.

So I feel I am responsible for the NGE, because the impetus came from an idea I initially championed, which I as unable to deflect when it was being mis-applied to SWG.

Again, the lesson of messing with the core of a game design in order to try and grow revenue being a likely recipe for disaster was demonstrated to me. And I had yet another Forest Gump-type moment in MMO history in my career.

It's OK to grieve a bit if appropriate for you. I don't want to see bashing of John Smedley or any of the other folks I know and respect at the former SOE. It's easy to demonize someone for doing something risky when the results turn out poorly. And we need risk takers to get innovation. What's more valuable is to figure out how to avoid making major mistakes in the first place, and coming up with more creative ways to solve these combination of game/community/business problems.
CU killed SWG way before NGE.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,358
80,720
The way you describe your experience in GW2 makes it sound like a tournament or soccer season. That's exactly what I dont like about modern MMO pvp, it's too "sportified". If I want a fair match in a controlled environment I load up LoL or SC2.
I agree. That's why got burnt on GW2. It was too sterile, too predictable, too similar. I could only take the same tower some 50 times before I didn't care anymore.

In ArcheAge I can log in and who knows what kind of shenanigans will happen. The same is true for most open world PvP games. I think that'll be true with CF too because even if the month ends the campaign and the experience is reduced to a mark in either our win or loss column of our guild's scoreboard, I expect each night will have its own story and adventure.
 

Srathor

Vyemm Raider
1,882
3,037
I just compare it to a new server opening transfer with a different world map. It will take some getting used to, but overall I hope it is going to scratch a major itch. Or a expansion pack opening kinda, you get the rush of the new maps and new people showing up, the world is your oyster once again and maybe this time you can get lucky and get ahead. (But you do not have to level!)
 

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
8,309
10,283
Why would anyone give a damn about castles that probably won't be up come next month / campaign.
Because that castle is what will make you win, and take home a new relic.
I don't really enjoy PvP when it feels instanced / non-persistent. Don't reset our shit, please.
The problem is one they've seen before. If it doesn't reset, after a couple months, you have a winner. And the loser has only one thing: the cancel account button (because, face it, most servers have by now their reigning guild established, so rerolling is useless). The reigning guild's logistics make them completely unassailable, and you have no hope left. And, after a while, the winners leave as well, because there's no one left. So, to combat this, you open a new server... everyone dissatisfied reroll there... and basically, you've recreated the campaign system.

So, yes, it's a compromise. The winners lose their keep. The losers can hope to do better next time.
 

Raign

Golden Squire
627
86
When it's about PvP, defending your shit or taking the enemy's, I think persistence does matter, so anyone can see what's going on at any point (like EvE influence map). When you take some stuff to make a point, or the enemy takes yours, there's a strong warfare feel, like "hey guys, we're taking this castle but unless we say so or the enemy stomps us and take it back, it's ours forever". If maps get reset every few weeks / months, none of that matters. Why would anyone give a damn about castles that probably won't be up come next month / campaign. I don't really enjoy PvP when it feels instanced / non-persistent. Don't reset our shit, please.
I agree with what you are saying in principle, but it is a REALLY fine line to walk. Taking Shadowbane as an example -- when you lost your keep it was very difficult to recover tactically. Time to rebuild was extremely long and you were forced to do so while defending yourself from the group that already beat you. While it made for some fantastic grudges and good pvp encounters, the team that lost initially very often could never get a foothold again and often the entire world just died out as the guilds would pick up for a fresh start somewhere else as it was much easier to do that than rebuild.

At least with the Crowfall mechanic, now that defeated guild gets to pick up and start over fresh and on even terms. A lot of MUD's back in the day used to use the approach that Crowfall is using and it was glorious... every few months everyone doing the 'new server rush' for power and control. Good times.

My only real worry is that I am not 18 and skipping calculus to MUD any more, those new server rushes are all about getting out the gate fast enough and long enough to beat your opponents to the best locations/resources etc. Taking a week off work for a new MMO launch is one thing... doing it every three months on server reset is another beast entirely!
 

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,277
85,868
I agree. That's why got burnt on GW2. It was too sterile, too predictable, too similar. I could only take the same tower some 50 times before I didn't care anymore.

In ArcheAge I can log in and who knows what kind of shenanigans will happen. The same is true for most open world PvP games. I think that'll be true with CF too because even if the month ends the campaign and the experience is reduced to a mark in either our win or loss column of our guild's scoreboard, I expect each night will have its own story and adventure.
I agree with most of your sentiment. This IS a competitive sport game though and it is what it is. I like this because as you mention, you far prefer the 72-4 record vs just keeping the castle forever. I don't think this is a problem because the option Creed mentions gets very, very stale and is not competitive. Didn't you mention how your keep was never successfully breached and rarely attacked. That was pretty boring for a PvP game wasn't it?

Having short term goals allows constant effort to reach goals and stagnation is minimized. This is not a multi-player castle building sim. You don't fight over the same castles, areas over and over and over. As Srathor says, it gives you the new world feel every couple of months and you can do different rule-sets when you want. It will be very good if they meet most of their goals.
 

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,800
5,417
Gordon Walton on his involvement with SW:G NGE - Says it's his fault.CF.GG Link

Gordons Official forum post:

Now that SOE is gone (long live Daybreak Games!) we should go ahead and have the Star Wars:Galaxies NGE discussion.

I'll start with the easy part: The NGE was my fault.

I'll also say that memory is an imperfect thing, particularly around emotional circumstances, so I won't say this is 100% accurate, but it's the way I remember it.

I was running SWG starting before the Jump to Lightspeed expansion was announced. This wouldn't have happened if SOE had been happy with the size and thus profitability of the game. Expectations had been that SWG would be as big, if not bigger than EQ which at the time was ~500k players. SWG had briefly gone over 400k but settled down into a 200-250k level. The Holicron addition and hints on how to get a Jedi ended up slowing net growth of the game and undermined the in-game community as people tried to macro their way to Jedi.

We had hoped that by adding the "Stars" in Star Wars (i.e. space vehicles and flight) that the game would grow significantly. But SWG had more fundamental issues around the combat system (which hadn't gotten nearly enough iteration before launch), and an overwhelming amount of bugs, balance tuning and missing features for the dozens of various professions was holding the game back. The team was constantly working against a giant backlog of these issues just to keep the players we had retained.

SWG was a real masterpiece in many ways. The team, led by Rich Vogel, John Donham and Raph Koster, built an amazing game, both in scope and AAA presentation. It had a character customization system that was the state of the art for the time (and still better than many we see today). An amazing diversity of professions and skill trees. Some extremely innovative design and gameplay roles were first seen in SWG. Having a player council was a SWG innovation. Rather than using the EQ technology, and entire new engine was created to match the requirement of SWG. And this was all done for <$18m in <3 years (2 years and 9 months), launching in June 2003. This was and remains unprecedented achievement in building a AAA MMO. And like so many MMOs, it was launched far too soon for financial reasons, so there were plenty of problems at launch and beyond.

After the Jump to Lightspeed expansion launched (Oct 2004), it was clear that our audience size was clearly <300k and that was not acceptable to SOE (or to LucasArts).

We were working hard to fix the bugs, missing features and trying to make the audience happier so we could grow. But that was a slow grind, even though SOE had added significantly more development resources in 2004 when I joined the team along with my team that had been working on an unannounced SOE project.

Elements of the SWG team had this idea that maybe we should build a second Star Wars game that was focused on the "War" in Star Wars. It would be large scale battle game for planetary conquest. That way we could have more people in bigger battles (the character customization in SWG was far too detailed to have lots of players on the screen without significant performance issues). We could have a game where people fought over planets and they'd be dominated by either the Rebels or the Empire until they switched hands again in a galactic strategy game. We could build a real twitch combat system that was less turn based and more visceral. It was a very exciting idea.

I championed an idea to SOE and LucasArts that we build this game with a new team, sell it as a separate product, but actually share the universe with SWG. No matter which game you initially joined, your subscription would give you access to both games. You'd have a battle game and a role playing game all together. The battles would take place on new worlds, but the outcomes would affect who owned the SWG worlds, such that the worlds in SWG would change who owned the government buildings and towns, empire and rebel banners swapping out, storm troopers patrolling where formerly the rebel soldiers would have been found. And an overall strategy game at the planetary level, bringing the "Wars" to Star Wars.

Management was excited about this concept until the cost of this new game was clear and neither company (SOE or LucasArts) wanted to (or were able) make that investment. But the thought remained that a Star Wars game with more "Wars" in it could be huge.

A prototype of the combat and faction switching in a town had been built. That and the launch World of Warcraft game influenced the development of the Combat Upgrade (Apr 2005) and following New Game Experience (Nov 2005).

The context at that time was that World of Warcraft had launched in November 2004, and so had Everquest 2. Everquest 2 clearly didn't meet expectations as WOW took off, even with their early shortages of product. Almost every other MMO in the market got less play and less acquisition as WOW took market share. So there were noticeable financial stresses on SOE and all the other MMO companies.

I participated in the early planning for the NGE, and I was told to execute it over my and many others on the SWG teams' objections. I failed as an effective communicator in my attempts to change this course. In March of 2005 my boss came to Austin for a visit, and I told him I was going to refuse to move forward on the NGE development and launch. I had assessed that it would be a breach of my fiduciary duty to do so. I believed (and told him) that launching the planned NGE would alienate the customer base, cause at least half of them to quit and lose the company 10's of millions of dollars. At the same time I told him he deserved to have people that worked for him do what he said, and I was sorry I was being intransigent. A week later I was terminated, and frankly I was never happier to be fired. I don't blame my management, as I basically made them do it. Being in conflict with your management is never fun, but doing something you don't believe in is worse.

I watched the launch and outcome of the NGE launch closely. I actually hoped that the NGE would work out, as that would have meant that I'd have to revisit my entire mental framework on working with MMO communities. But the customer losses were significant, and the blow to both the SWG and SOE brands was noticeable. Destroying player persistence, the professions they'd put months or years of work into, along with their identities, to make the game "better" for new customers wasn't a win from my external assessment. Many of those alienated customers became activists against SOE due to their losses, and the bad feelings around this change to SWG continues with ex-customers to this day.

I want to stress that everyone that I knew who were involved with SWG at SOE and at LucasArts were trying to do the best thing as they saw it for their companies and for the long-term benefit of the game. I just didn't believe then or now that it was right thing to do from a customer stewardship and fiduciary standpoint.

So I feel I am responsible for the NGE, because the impetus came from an idea I initially championed, which I as unable to deflect when it was being mis-applied to SWG.

Again, the lesson of messing with the core of a game design in order to try and grow revenue being a likely recipe for disaster was demonstrated to me. And I had yet another Forest Gump-type moment in MMO history in my career.

It's OK to grieve a bit if appropriate for you. I don't want to see bashing of John Smedley or any of the other folks I know and respect at the former SOE. It's easy to demonize someone for doing something risky when the results turn out poorly. And we need risk takers to get innovation. What's more valuable is to figure out how to avoid making major mistakes in the first place, and coming up with more creative ways to solve these combination of game/community/business problems.
for someone taking responsibility for it, he sure isnt taking much responsibility.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
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for someone taking responsibility for it, he sure isnt taking much responsibility.
It's the J Robert Oppenheimer approach: say a bunch of shit to create a narrative where you are singularly important, then blame other assholes for misusing your idea. That way you can be important and responsible but it isn't your fault!
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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I agree with most of your sentiment. This IS a competitive sport game though and it is what it is. I like this because as you mention, you far prefer the 72-4 record vs just keeping the castle forever. I don't think this is a problem because the option Creed mentions gets very, very stale and is not competitive. Didn't you mention how your keep was never successfully breached and rarely attacked. That was pretty boring for a PvP game wasn't it?

Having short term goals allows constant effort to reach goals and stagnation is minimized. This is not a multi-player castle building sim. You don't fight over the same castles, areas over and over and over. As Srathor says, it gives you the new world feel every couple of months and you can do different rule-sets when you want. It will be very good if they meet most of their goals.
Yep, that's why I'm looking forward to it. But......
Raign_sl said:
My only real worry is that I am not 18 and skipping calculus to MUD any more, those new server rushes are all about getting out the gate fast enough and long enough to beat your opponents to the best locations/resources etc. Taking a week off work for a new MMO launch is one thing... doing it every three months on server reset is another beast entirely!
This is also true. If they don't make the release phase interesting on its own, people are going to poopsock their way to victory in a campaign mining, chopping and farming the same bullshit for days and then in the next campaign say, "Uh, no thanks." to doing the same thing. I don't think any MMO in the history of MMOs has had enjoyable leveling gameplay on its own. It's only so much fun because of the competitive and new nature of it.
 

Palum

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My assumption would be that they will have to bite the bullet and make the majority of campaign starts on weekends. I don't see Tuesday at 11AM working out, at least for everyone.