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BoozeCube

The Wokest
<Prior Amod>
51,515
302,446
Why is everyone so adamant about not doing this stuff again? Sounds like everyone had finished it in under a week, so it's clearly not that big a time sink?

There are dozens of posts about how it you don't like grinding the same content over and over again you don't even know what am ARPG is. How is this any different?

Because most people want to kill monsters, collect gear, level up.. I don't mind that repetitive grind

The renown shit is like walk to this area and pick your asshole, then stand on your head, now suck your own dick, grats here is a mundane set of rotten bananas as a reward. So yeah I think most people would happily pass on Blizzards walking simulator and opt to play the game.

Because all the hyperventilating about how the game was amazingly super fun was just compensation. The "fun" was new +1 loot in a new skin in the form of a new game. When the Skinner box is finally revealed to be just a new shine on the same shallow tedium then suddenly the game was still super fun in the past, but no longer the present and certainly not the future.

If the game was actually just fun on a fundamental level then people would keep playing it despite the loot treadmill. Not the opposite.

That's the problem. On a basic level the game is just sorta boring and average and uninspired. If you're someone who sees through that or who isn't desperate for the latest distraction, it was obvious after a few hours. But gamers being gamers it'll take some days or weeks of massive hype and rationalizations to come to that conclusion.

That said, I respect people who with little fanfare or hype just shrug and play an average game because they're bored or whatever.

The mind bottlers are the ones who will go from super fun best Diablo game to having concerns when the shine starts to fade to rage quiting or never posting about it again when they end up personally and deeply disappointed the game didn't live up to their deluded expectations.

Meanwhile, others will probably pick the game up in months or years when the game is polished up and/or deeply discounted and have a completely moderate amount of fun that an average game deserves, like Diablo 3.

It's a weird thing from a bygone era when a high priced game was expected to provided years of engagement. People still want that, but it's hard to find, so they just rationalize the latest game is worth the hype, that they're actually having a ton of fun, but then something unrelated to their own psyche ruined the fun suddenly and in short order.

There really needs to be more research into the psychology of gaming and it's effects on humans and society, because it's psychologically exhausting watching the cycle over and over so can't be having good effects on the people experiencing it constantly.

This might be valid but it can be must simpler in that people just want to play the game. I want to log in kill some bullshit for a bit, collect some loot, and big dick some monsters. Not talk to Tony about picking berries or collecting bear asses.. Keep that American Inventor shit in WOW.
 
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Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
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Am I crazy can you complete Act 2 before Act 1?

Either way two acts finished and I am 42..lol...needless to say I am going slow.
 
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Fucker

Log Wizard
12,639
28,767
Why is everyone so adamant about not doing this stuff again? Sounds like everyone had finished it in under a week, so it's clearly not that big a time sink?

There are dozens of posts about how it you don't like grinding the same content over and over again you don't even know what am ARPG is. How is this any different?
Doing the same thing over and over is fine if it is fun or if at least partially so. It isn't fun here because my character hasn't gotten more powerful at level 50 than at level 1. Sure, there's 3 more buttons to press to make the mana vanish in more colorful ways. There's absolutely zero reason to have levels or progression if the mobs scale to you. Getting loot isn't fun if it doesn't do anything to your character. In D4 better loot just makes you less weak, not more powerful.

They've also dropped a 100 levels on this shit. Having lots of levels is fine if you get something for it. Here, all you get is a sore ass and a weaker character.
 
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mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Am I crazy can you complete Act 2 before Act 1?

Either way two acts finished and I am 42..lol...needless to say I am going slow.
YEah my first character was like this too. Its easy to get sidetracked with all the new shit in this game. Then you realize, oh shit im almost 35 or 40 or whatever and dont even have my mount yet, and that realization along with seeing people zoom by me with horses, made me finally rush the story.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Doing the same thing over and over is fine if it is fun or if at least partially so. It isn't fun here because my character hasn't gotten more powerful at level 50 than at level 1. Sure, there's 3 more buttons to press to make the mana vanish in more colorful ways. There's absolutely zero reason to have levels or progression if the mobs scale to you. Getting loot isn't fun if it doesn't do anything to your character. In D4 better loot just makes you less weak, not more powerful.

They've also dropped a 100 levels on this shit. Having lots of levels is fine if you get something for it. Here, all you get is a sore ass and a weaker character.
There is definite spikes in your power as you progress every upgrade you find makes you slightly more powerful vs the scaled content. But even if they didnt scale the content, two things would happen. One, you would never see people in 80% of the zones in this game and 80% of the zones would be totally worthless to you, like a max character in wow. Second even if they didnt scale the content to your level, you would be doing it yourself. Of course you would have more control over it, but you get the picture, you would constantly be trying to push higher content because thats where to loot and exp is anyway. Why would you want to go to lower level zones to kill shit anyway?

so picture a Diablo 4 world where 80% of the zones would be too low for you, 80% of the dungeons would be too low for you unless nightmare... And you see that it would be just like EQ in yr 3 where you saw no one in 1-30 zones anymore, and all that content is basically WASTED content.

This whole argument of scaled content really baffles me. Now the WAY they scale it might need a bit of tuning, but all in all I think scaling shit to your level is the way to go.
 
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Dr.Retarded

<Silver Donator>
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Am I crazy can you complete Act 2 before Act 1?

Either way two acts finished and I am 42..lol...needless to say I am going slow.
Hah, think I'm 45, and still haven't finished the first act, but I think I'm probably pretty close. Ehh, whatever, I'm having fun.
 
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popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
And you see that it would be just like EQ in yr 3 where you saw no one in 1-30 zones anymore, and all that content is basically WASTED content.

I'd rather have good, unique content "wasted" by only experiencing it in limited amounts than all content being made mundane under the assumption if it's not being recycled for constant consumption it's then considered "wasted."

Is chapter one of a great book wasted because you got to the end? Is your first night with the love of your life wasted because you've built a life together? Was your youth wasted because you grew up?

Shit, actually you've stumbled into some potentially deep insights into gaming, gamers and society. I wonder what relationships the people feverishly playing Diablo and telling everyone about it have with literature, spouses, and their own "lost" youth. In my limited observation, parhaps not good.

It's a miracle I'm not desperately clinging to this polished turd. Man if I could go back to the days where my ignorance felt like bliss. Probably too much reading that ruined that for me, because it certainly wasn't good relationships or fondness for my youth.

Anyhow, hoping this shit gets on game pass eventually because rogue combat was almost interesting.
 
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mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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If thats what you want, why even wade into the ARPG thread then, when literally the entire genre is built around repeatable content (Acts, world tiers, random generated dungeons) you do over and over again for more loots and power? Look, we all would like the unicorn of a game that provided fresh balanced content over and over again to us so we would not have to play the same fucking thing time and again, but this is not reality. For the billionth time, content will get consumed 100x faster then they can produce it. And I dont care if this is Blizzard with their 1000 man teams or small indie company with 10. I gues stck to books and jerking off to the thoughts of your first chick.

And no there is no chance this coming to your game pass, lol.
 
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Lumi

Vyemm Raider
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3,038
Got up to Tier 9 in Nightmare Dungeons and the Necro pets are starting to get weaker. I'm guessing it gets worse the higher you go.

Might start a Sorc to mix it up a bit as they seem to have some fun builds also.
You just have to transition to another build is all. Bone spirit seems to be the way to go and it's actually quite insane. You can 1 shot entire packs and even the boss when your gear gets juiced enough.
 

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
<Bronze Donator>
7,164
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The more I play this the more I hate the garbage UI, the dumb inventory choices and other needless tedium.

Also, if you have to regrind renown and statues every season I will definitely quit playing. I hate side quests and random dungeons being mandatory, it conflicts heavily with the "log in and do content you like" ethos they claim.

thats what I was sayign with my interface post...

they added so many MMO mechanics that D3 and WoW have to this game but at least D3's UI wasn't nearly as bad. Not amazing for "MMO content" but not this bad.

The amount of QoL features that should have been present on launch and weren't because NONE OF THEIR FUCKING TEAM PLAYS THE GOD DAMN GAME is just annoying.
 

Aazrael

Golden Baronet of the Realm
3,233
12,093
The Butcher is quite brutal when you get him in a Nightmare Dungeon, killed him in my last Tier 10 but it was not easy.
 
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Zindan

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
7,000
4,664
Doing the same thing over and over is fine if it is fun or if at least partially so. It isn't fun here because my character hasn't gotten more powerful at level 50 than at level 1. Sure, there's 3 more buttons to press to make the mana vanish in more colorful ways. There's absolutely zero reason to have levels or progression if the mobs scale to you. Getting loot isn't fun if it doesn't do anything to your character. In D4 better loot just makes you less weak, not more powerful.

They've also dropped a 100 levels on this shit. Having lots of levels is fine if you get something for it. Here, all you get is a sore ass and a weaker character.
Are you playing, or are you one of the people here who just complain about Blizzard? My lvling experience in terms of feeling powerful has been up / down, so yea, not very satisfying, but I have gotten gear which changed my playstyle, and gear which made my character feel more powerful than they were (for awhile). The Nightmare dungeon tiers are where you'll see if you're strong or not.

I have a hunch that D4 Seasons are going to very similar to how BDO does them, which is sorta lame... but easy to do, and easy to attach a Season Pass too. If Blizz was smart, they would copy 2 things from BDO seasons 1) Season only server(s), and 2) Accelerated leveling. I can't see Blizz being able to create a Season as complicated as a PoE League (I wish they could), so we'll just see stuff like D3 seasons (which is disappoint everyone).
 

Fucker

Log Wizard
12,639
28,767
If thats what you want, why even wade into the ARPG thread then, when literally the entire genre is built around repeatable content (Acts, world tiers, random generated dungeons) you do over and over again for more loots and power? Look, we all would like the unicorn of a game that provided fresh balanced content over and over again to us so we would not have to play the same fucking thing time and again, but this is not reality. For the billionth time, content will get consumed 100x faster then they can produce it. And I dont care if this is Blizzard with their 1000 man teams or small indie company with 10. I gues stck to books and jerking off to the thoughts of your first chick.

And no there is no chance this coming to your game pass, lol.
Core of the arpg is to make your character more powerful. I just got a 35% boost in "damage" and it did exactly fuck all that I could tell. Getting that large of a damage boost and not noticing that it has any impact on anything is some pretty shit game design.
 
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mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Core of the arpg is to make your character more powerful. I just got a 35% boost in "damage" and it did exactly fuck all that I could tell. Getting that large of a damage boost and not noticing that it has any impact on anything is some pretty shit game design.
You get more powerful but you also tackle more challenging content. IDK, did you go back to lv 10 zones in EQ when you were 50 to feel all that power you now have? Ive played a ton of these games from POE to Grim dawn and almost everything between and all content scales, whether its forced like in this game, or you force it on yourself. In the first 2 diablos they had acts you had toredo in harder modes, same with D3 although I did not play it that long. In POE you get more powerful but you also go up in tiers of maps and tackle bosses which are harder tier to tier, which is self imposed scaling. So whats the difference if the game does this auto for you or you do it yourself?

This is not to say that they could balance this a bit better in this game, adjust the curves a bit on the scaling, sure Ill agree, and im sure they will, but IMO there is nothing wrong with the scaling system.
 
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Lanx

<Prior Amod>
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hey it's fun, after we fixed her battlenet, we played 8hrs until 2am and didn't even notice...

main quest shows 0%, lulz
 
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Lumi

Vyemm Raider
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3,038
Core of the arpg is to make your character more powerful. I just got a 35% boost in "damage" and it did exactly fuck all that I could tell. Getting that large of a damage boost and not noticing that it has any impact on anything is some pretty shit game design.
There's zero chance that a 35% boost wasn't noticeable. I had like a 15% boost in defense and went from sometimes dying to virtually never dying unless I fuck around a little too much.
 

Radicale

Vyemm Raider
314
886
There's zero chance that a 35% boost wasn't noticeable. I had like a 15% boost in defense and went from sometimes dying to virtually never dying unless I fuck around a little too much.
That literally sounds like an aspect, a 0% chance to boost 35% of nothing haha
 
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Aazrael

Golden Baronet of the Realm
3,233
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Think I finally got that Necro summon build cooking. Now my Mages cast Blizzard as well. Took forever for that aspect to drop. Up to Tier 13 and still having no issues with the Skellingtons. If they end up buffing them I wont complaing though.

And just got done Salvaging a ton of shit in my stash and could unlock this transmog.

Necro armor looks pretty good even if it's more "plate" than bone armor.

necrod4-3.png
 
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popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
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IDK, did you go back to lv 10 zones in EQ when you were 50 to feel all that power you now have?

The difference is in EQ and many other games you didn't have to set out to prove you're actually gaining power. A significant upgrade would be more powerful, something you could see and feel or parse.

In Diablo 3 and plenty of similar games an upgrade in the middle of a dungeon would be a noticeable difference, sometimes even so much as to necessitate upping the difficulty.

In fact, upping the difficulty is a tried and true method of making power increases felt and noticeable, especially at lower levels.

In Diablo 4 in my limited playing it was just always sorta a similar challenge, even at lower levels with what I thought would have been major upgrades. Even respeccing because I got several big upgrades that were better for a different build, and stuff just sorta died at similar rates in slightly different ways.

Made me wonder if they had "dynamic" scaling based on character power, not even level, but I figured I was just imagining things because that would be a retarded way to completely homogenize game difficulty into a very mediocre experience.

The interesting thing is you keep making comparisons to EQ, because you're right, all their open world mmo style gameplay is eliciting such comparisons, but not good ones.

It's like they took the worst aspects of both mmos and arpgs and combined them and thought it revolutionary to do so instead of realizing they were just making a strange stone soup.

They very well could have made a smaller, more linear and higher quality story experience and then had end game content that was more open world. Or made an open world and gameplay tailored for more mmo style gaming.

Instead, they seem to have fallen for their own open world and mmo hype that is over a decade old now where companies think just making something open world or multiplayer is inherently just better without much extra effort.

I mean, yeah, exactly they tried to do an open world mmo style games with level scaling. Which is retarded. But they probably tried it because gamers think having lower level zones in an MMO are wasted if they aren't being recycled for end game use?

Gamers getting exactly what we deserve, I guess.

Gonna be funny watching all the hardcore gamers try to shift to a narrative that having a game they could play with their normy Uber casual-gamer wives is what they actually always hoped the Diablo franchise would become.
 
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Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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The difference is in EQ and many other games you didn't have to set out to prove you're actually gaining power. A significant upgrade would be more powerful, something you could see and feel or parse.

In Diablo 3 and plenty of similar games an upgrade in the middle of a dungeon would be a noticeable difference, sometimes even so much as to necessitate upping the difficulty.

In fact, upping the difficulty is a tried and true method of making power increases felt and noticeable, especially at lower levels.

This can happpen in d4 and has to me a few times. Just like d3 getting certain drops can make a very noticeable jump. enough to jump a WT if you wanted while leveling, or some tiers in nightmare and even just clearing the dungeon you are in easier. Sometimes you can get an item, that then leads to a build change on top, that is a noticeable improvement. In the end though, they all end up just with you grinding away for the small % increase. Like both games at first its item accruement, but once you have them, its about finding better items for a slow steady gain. Just like the paragon board is in both, though the d4 can have bigger spikers because of certain nodes(legendary, glyphs, rare). Uniques seem to be a block for some builds. They also provide a decent power spike.

Not sure why you think its different here or doesn't exist. I mean I can guess, given your post history, but I am sure others see it fine.
 
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