Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Cinge · Jun 13, 2023

Jackie Treehorn said:
Dumb question:

Instead of uniques like in D3 creating builds, in this game, the main end game gearing is mostly getting the highest tier YELLOWS from WT4, and upgrading them with those aspects you either get from dungeons, or find on items?

It seems like there aren’t a ton of uniques, right?

Uniques in d3? Sets basically defined a build, then legendary powers to synergize with it. I can't remember any unique items off the top of my head.

D4 actually has some uniques that are almost required for some builds or are big improvements to existing builds. No clue how many there are actually. Decent amount for a first start. They said as they go they will add more(will see). But yes you basically look for a very good rolled yellow or even legendary item, and then imprint a aspect you have stored on it.

Mist · Jun 13, 2023

Jackie Treehorn said:
Dumb question:

Instead of uniques like in D3 creating builds, in this game, the main end game gearing is mostly getting the highest tier YELLOWS from WT4, and upgrading them with those aspects you either get from dungeons, or find on items?

It seems like there aren’t a ton of uniques, right?

Some of the D4 uniques are very good, but they're quite rare. And if it's a weapon, it also has to roll high base DPS in order to be good, just like in D3 or POE.

Jackie Treehorn · Jun 13, 2023

Daidraco said:
Pretty much nail on the head. Can look up builds online. CDR is the king big dick stat to look out for on most yellows. One affix can be off on the yellow, and you can just reforge it till you get something you like. Then you put an aspect (legendary) on it, upgrade it (five levels generally) and socket it once or twice. Most builds have about two uniques, as the legendaries combine to make captain planet more so than one off changes like the unique gear accomplishes.

Got it, thanks…it was a bit confusing until it clicked in my head what I was looking at when I saw gear linked.

Jackie Treehorn · Jun 13, 2023

Cinge said:
Uniques in d3? Sets basically defined a build, then legendary powers to synergize with it. I can't remember any unique items off the top of my head.

D4 actually has some uniques that are almost required for some builds or are big improvements to existing builds. No clue how many there are actually. Decent amount for a first start. They said as they go they will add more(will see). But yes you basically look for a very good rolled yellow or even legendary item, and then imprint an aspect you have stored on it.

I meant legendaries. The orange items with the specific text that did this or that.

Khane · Jun 13, 2023

Kirun said:
Oh, so a similar system to what D4 has?

At this point I'm beginning to think you haven't even played D4. Have you even played the game?

Yea it's the same exact loot system you're right.

Deathwing · Jun 13, 2023

zombiewizardhawk said:
They literally both right click once and clear 3 screens, then you run a few steps and right click again to clear 3 more. Repeat til map is clear. You know this but you just can't stand anyone saying PoE isn't a godsent masterpiece of a game with 0 flaws that towers over any competition in every metric by miles.

When we did this months ago and I pointed out that you can use the different runes on skills in d3 to get "a ton of build variety" i'm pretty sure you were one of the ones saying I was being nonsensical but d3 runes changed the builds just as much as there is a difference in "the way lightning arrow and tornado shot clear".

I would say that's more of a function of PoE combat speed and braindead grinding inherent to ARPGs. If you're looking for nuanced combat, PoE map clearing is the wrong content for you. And it's also a fair criticism of the game if that's something you don't like. But it's not fair to judge skills in that context alone. If you make the assumption that you're going to clear maps by blindly right clicking at the screen, you need to find skill differences elsewhere.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I have levied my fair share of criticism at PoE. It is not a "godsent masterpiece" by any stretch. I have routinely called upon a worthy competitor and that is probably my biggest disappointment in D4. The game is fundamentally different enough that it is only partially competing with PoE. D4 might steal players, but I doubt it will do anything more than memes about phones/nets.

You can't claim D3 runes are build variety and then claim PoE has no build variety. While I don't remember this specific thread, I have no doubt I called you nonsensical. Honestly, seems less insulting than you deserve.

Fucker · Jun 13, 2023

Jackie Treehorn said:
I bought this a few days back and have been playing. It’s fun enough but has a multitude of QoL improvements that have already been mentioned here a million times. Mind you I’ve read very little about it, didn’t play beta, etc

-gem storage is silly

- seriously, why the fuck are there no chat channels. Why is there no automated group finder like d3 has. It makes the game seem like single player with occasional other people you see sometimes. I realize you can join a guild, or use external chat programs, but still

-itemization is a lil confusing. I miss having a variety of uniques with synergies. Does this game even have shit like that?

-the builds seem kinda bland and homogenous, but I guess D3 was kinda like that, but it felt better?

-the dungeons are a bit bland

-why’s changing specs have to be so expensive? Why does it cost anything at all? Just give us free re-specs with the ability to go back in town and save specs for different purposes

-I’m super casual so I imagine I’ll have fun tinkering with it and it’ll last longer for me than people who blow it up in one or two weeks but it needs some work

I dunno why a mega corporation can’t take all the games they’ve ever done, learn from them, and create a new product with many of the ideas people loved. Also at the same time, how do you not have some creativity for new concepts also that are engaging and fun

This is more an indictment of the industry as a whole than this game specifically. I see rando people on Internet forums coming up with ideas that make me think “damn that would be cool” but none of these people seem to work at places that actually create games

which leads me to believe every choice they make is simply profit focused and not actually game focused

Gem storage can be handled just like in D3. Give it a tab in Stash and drop them there. I don't hoard gear so this works for me. What does need a bag? Nightmare dungeon keys. God damn, what a stupid fucking idea.

Itemization sucks for me right now, but I'm only almost 60. There's exactly no interesting loot, just +Betterer. <-this is incredibly boring and introduces no carrot to play.

Dungeons are bland as hell, and there aren't many variations. Blizz spent a zillion dollars on cutscenes people watch only once, yet spent like $10 on dungeons that we have to run 1003984209572095782057405825823482139481027502485 times.

The game is bland and homogenized because the people who made it are not gamers. I like looking at aeroplanes, but that doesn't mean I can design one....same concept here.

Take a look at any of the systems here that they tacked on from other games without considering why they existed in those games or if they should exist in this one. Take the Paragon boards for instance. It is just +stat, + glyph, + legendary...and then when you fill out one board, you move on to the next...which you can rotate and choose legendary. Uh, god this is pants on head retarded. The rotating is retarded, the glyph is retarded, the glyph radius is retarded, the glyph leveling is retarded. This is just one example. Anyone who plays and understands ARPG's would have killed the entire Paragon board and glyph thing the moment someone mentioned it.

Another example...this is an ARPG but they stapled it onto an "open" world simply to check a features box without considering if they should have done it at all (the answer is no).

The list goes on and on, but you get my gist.

Fucker · Jun 13, 2023

Cinge said:
Shitty drops is nothing new. Just because its legendary doesn't mean its good. Even unique has some duds. I only pick all them up for salvage and checking if its a good aspect to extract. This is nothing new to this series or to the genre at all. If every drop was amazing, you would be finished playing even faster. There has to be some treadmill. Probably confusing WoW legendary with diablo.

Yeah, disappointment is key to the genre, but there has to be something to treadmill for. Another reason why I hate the dumb level grind they put in...too much stick, not enough carrot.

Mist · Jun 13, 2023

Fucker said:
Blizz spent a zillion dollars on cutscenes people watch only once, yet spent like $10 on dungeons that we have to run 1003984209572095782057405825823482139481027502485 times.

You don't have to. You can just play through the game and then stop playing it, like every other game.

The current design in this build of the game has a definite end. You beat the final capstone and the endgame is technically over. There's nothing to grind past that, as the paragon board stops at level 100.

Now, because of the amount of store monetization, and season passes, I doubt the game stays that way. They will want you to play as many seasons as possible.

D4 shipped as a one-shot, non-GaaS game, with the GaaS portions to be patched in later.

So right now, it is simultaneously pissing off the people who expected a GaaS and the people who didn't want a GaaS.

Xevy · Jun 13, 2023

I think a lot of people here are missing that Legendaries =/= Uniques. Some people are complaining that they're not unique enough, but that's just it. They're just rares with a tailored super-power. Uniques are in fact unique and have pre-set stats and some of them ACTUALLY have unique abilities that define/make builds in this game. They're just super rare and you won't see them until WT3+ and realistically not often, if you can even say that, until WT4.

The item system is uninspired, but it's akin to basically every other ARPG there is. People love Last Epoch's crafting and items but that shit is painful with their offensive prefix, defensive suffix stuff and their build-a-bear crafting system. PoE's strength is also its weakness in just massive RNG on RNG with different influences and tiers and a million affixes and you're just hoping to hit something good or something you can work with within the confines of their crafting system. But when you get lucky, it feels great. Feels like you won the lottery. However, like the real lottery you're losing millions more than you're winning if you're just ID scrolling.

D3 Legendaries went from being AMAZING (Shard of Hate, TFury, Cindercoat, etc) to GOOD to okay to okay+ if primal. The reason being that the set system fucked power up majorly. Some of these items had like 200% weapon damage procs which felt great for the first 2-3 seasons, but then you got set bonuses that literally have 1500% modifiers or worse and there's no way a dinky 2x hit is going to even be noticeable compared to some set bonus or some big 700% multiplier on your main skill. That's the exact reason they shied away from sets and wanted to focus on Uniques for main power. So when you find that very rare item it potentially means a new means of pay opens up and you can FEEL the power from it. I think for at least half the Uniques that seems to be the case. I've just been a Necro so I can't speak for other classes except I know there's some helmet like 100% of druid builds use as well so I imagine it's similar for them.

AND AGAIN

If you loved D2, don't like this or feel meh about it, like PoE but hate a lot of it's systems:

Project Diablo 2. It's amazing. Honestly the only game I'd consider being close to rival PoE in my personal opinion. It's classic D2 items, with PoE maps, with constantly update runewords/Skill changes, with Corruption shards for slamming items. They just released a 60fps version and it is VERY fun. Definitely more fun on a league launch, which should be a month or two away, but it is a VERY fun version of D2. If Blizzard was smart they'd let them use D2R assets to get more D2R box sales and then it would absolutely be the closest contender to PoE for top ARPG.

Fucker · Jun 13, 2023

Mist said:
You don't have to. You can just play through the game and then stop playing it, like every other game.

The current design in this build of the game has a definite end. You beat the final capstone and the endgame is technically over. There's nothing to grind past that, as the paragon board stops at level 100.

Now, because of the amount of store monetization, and season passes, I doubt the game stays that way. They will want you to play as many seasons as possible.

D4 shipped as a one-shot, non-GaaS game, with the GaaS portions to be patched in later.

So right now, it is simultaneously pissing off the people who expected a GaaS and the people who didn't want a GaaS.

Endgame is running NM's to level your glyphs.

Derkon · Jun 13, 2023

The fuck are minion necros supposed to do when you start T3? I tried doing this helltide stuff and my skeles just get destroyed if there is more then one elite on the screen. I do have all the passives, spamming the heal, etc but obviously no paragon stuff atm. Hope it gets better!

Mist · Jun 13, 2023

Fucker said:
Endgame is running NM's to level your glyphs.

That's nonsense. Endgame is beating uber Lilith and touching grass or playing something else.

zombiewizardhawk · Jun 13, 2023

Deathwing said:
You can't claim D3 runes are build variety and then claim PoE has no build variety. While I don't remember this specific thread, I have no doubt I called you nonsensical. Honestly, seems less insulting than you deserve.

I have never made that claim. A bunch of people before were making the claim that "PoE has massive build variety" because you can use 80 different skills that effectively all play identically so I pointed out to them that D3 had a shitload of runes that made just as much "variety". Maybe you weren't one of those people, but some of the people in this thread definitely were. Just like we have people in here saying "d4 is repetitive, fail game" while they have 80k hours poopsocking lost ark and bdo as if those games weren't equally as repetitive if not moreso, or that itemization is "boring because it's just +gooder" when that's literally what bdo itemization is and i'm pretty sure that's what lost ark itemization was, too, and almost every other game in the past 15 years, of any genre.

I have just been pointing out how similar the "flaws" in this game are to the "amazing features" the people pointing them out call them in other games.

Chris · Jun 13, 2023

I got the Condemnation Unique Dagger

Lenas · Jun 13, 2023

I got the druid unique chest that always keeps you as a werewolf along with a perfect rolled lego amulet with tornados seeking up to 5 targets so I guess I'm gonna start pivoting from pulverize to that fun lookin tornado spam build.

The secret 175 chests during Helltides, do they actually guarantee anything?

Ritley · Jun 13, 2023

Khane said:
It isn't a random yellow, it's a Legendary. Which should mean something, but it doesn't, which is the point.

It was likely a random yellow drop. Once you add an imprint to a rare it becomes legendary. Literally the only difference between rare and legendary is whether it has an aspect or not. And since you can imprint a rare you have 10000% better chance of getting a good rare and then imprinting it than getting a good legendary.

Mist · Jun 13, 2023

Xevy said:
I think a lot of people here are missing that Legendaries =/= Uniques. Some people are complaining that they're not unique enough, but that's just it. They're just rares with a tailored super-power. Uniques are in fact unique and have pre-set stats and some of them ACTUALLY have unique abilities that define/make builds in this game. They're just super rare and you won't see them until WT3+ and realistically not often, if you can even say that, until WT4.

The item system is uninspired, but it's akin to basically every other ARPG there is. People love Last Epoch's crafting and items but that shit is painful with their offensive prefix, defensive suffix stuff and their build-a-bear crafting system. PoE's strength is also its weakness in just massive RNG on RNG with different influences and tiers and a million affixes and you're just hoping to hit something good or something you can work with within the confines of their crafting system. But when you get lucky, it feels great. Feels like you won the lottery. However, like the real lottery you're losing millions more than you're winning if you're just ID scrolling.

D3 Legendaries went from being AMAZING (Shard of Hate, TFury, Cindercoat, etc) to GOOD to okay to okay+ if primal. The reason being that the set system fucked power up majorly. Some of these items had like 200% weapon damage procs which felt great for the first 2-3 seasons, but then you got set bonuses that literally have 1500% modifiers or worse and there's no way a dinky 2x hit is going to even be noticeable compared to some set bonus or some big 700% multiplier on your main skill. That's the exact reason they shied away from sets and wanted to focus on Uniques for main power. So when you find that very rare item it potentially means a new means of pay opens up and you can FEEL the power from it. I think for at least half the Uniques that seems to be the case. I've just been a Necro so I can't speak for other classes except I know there's some helmet like 100% of druid builds use as well so I imagine it's similar for them.

AND AGAIN

If you loved D2, don't like this or feel meh about it, like PoE but hate a lot of it's systems:

Project Diablo 2. It's amazing. Honestly the only game I'd consider being close to rival PoE in my personal opinion. It's classic D2 items, with PoE maps, with constantly update runewords/Skill changes, with Corruption shards for slamming items. They just released a 60fps version and it is VERY fun. Definitely more fun on a league launch, which should be a month or two away, but it is a VERY fun version of D2. If Blizzard was smart they'd let them use D2R assets to get more D2R box sales and then it would absolutely be the closest contender to PoE for top ARPG.

I think the game would be a lot better if 5 mod rares started dropping 90+.

Khane · Jun 13, 2023

Ritley said:
It was likely a random yellow drop. Once you add an imprint to a rare it becomes legendary. Literally the only difference between rare and legendary is whether it has an aspect or not. And since you can imprint a rare you have 10000% better chance of getting a good rare and then imprinting it than getting a good legendary.

So you get the point... cool

BoozeCube · Jun 13, 2023

Certain specs you can't just look at +damage on a weapon and assume it's better.

An example for Arc Lash sorc, speed and lucky hit matter alot so you are forced into 1 hand wand and can ignore 2 hand staffs and daggers because even with higher weapon dps number it doesn't matter.

Like daid said for many builds CDR is king because Blizzard is full of retard American Inventors who don't like you using spells.

Certain damage types are additive while others are multiplicative which means you want to stack the multiples far more than the additives.

Sadly when you get your PHD in itemization terms you realize 99.8% of them are dog shit and you only need X, Y, and Z which turns the somewhat decent itemization and depth into a shallow kiddie pool of faggotry and uninteresting choices.

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Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Cinge

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Khane

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