Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

BoozeCube said:

Saw a trailer for PoE2 god does it make this look like a steaming pile of shit.

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If PoE 2 releases before the expansion, Blizzard are in big trouble.

Open beta is soon right?

Chris said:

If PoE 2 releases before the expansion, Blizzard are in big trouble.

Open beta is soon right?

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beta got pushed back. don't know when it starts, but early access supposedly isn't coming till mid nov.

rhinohelix said:

"Class balance is completely in the dumpster"=there's a variance of about 30 levels at the highest end of the Pit between the lowest performing class/builds (Druid) and the highest performing class (currently Sorc with the immortal flameshield/fire bolt build but Barb and Necro have easier paths to second and third). All of the classes are able to do well in NMD and in the Open World/Helltides farming/Blood Maiden.

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rob estimates the holy bolts nerf will take 20+ pit levels away from top necro. he moved top necro build from S+ to A, and i think 4th place.

Made a rogue. Anyone have tips for leveling and such? I have an Andariel's I wanted to kinda build with till I get a shako.

rhinohelix said:

"Class balance is completely in the dumpster"=there's a variance of about 30 levels at the highest end of the Pit between the lowest performing class/builds (Druid) and the highest performing class (currently Sorc with the immortal flameshield/fire bolt build but Barb and Necro have easier paths to second and third). All of the classes are able to do well in NMD and in the Open World/Helltides farming/Blood Maiden.

That won't stop the laments, though, which seemingly will always be with us: "Sorcerer is RUINED" cries the title of the RageGamingVideos: Diablo 4 - Sorcerer is Dead - New HUGE Patch Changes Breakdown - New Worst Class in Game! brings a tear to my eye thinking about EQ:

FYI, this was my firs time playing Sorc in retail but I died less playing Sorc than on my Barb or Necro; I have two Sorcs, rather than respec my Fire Sorc I just made another for the Blizzard/Frozen Orb Sorc. Once I committed to the Frozen Orb build, QoL was 1000% better.

I think I will work on pushing Pit for a while, and then tweak out the other two classes for their builds before the season ends. I still have some Paragon points to get from completing all the regions.

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This season might not be a great indicator of balances. Holy bolts on my Barb gives me easily 10 more levels than I normally could handle.

Goatface said:

beta got pushed back. don't know when it starts, but early access supposedly isn't coming till mid nov.



rob estimates the holy bolts nerf will take 20+ pit levels away from top necro. he moved top necro build from S+ to A, and i think 4th place.

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Dammit! What he said!

Brahma said:

Made a rogue. Anyone have tips for leveling and such? I have an Andariel's I wanted to kinda build with till I get a shako.

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I think they fixed the Helltide mob spawn sploit, so Helltide spam might not be as good as it once was. Also, if the XP buff is still up, it kinda changes things.

With the Helltide bug available and w/o the XP buff, my preferred leveling method was spamming Helltides while maximizing Wolf rep gains. What that means is jump up WT as soon as possible, but once you collect 1000+ cinders, go back down to WT2 and open all the chests in the WT2 Helltide for 120 rep each (difference is around 400 rep per 2 zone helltide, between WT2 and WT3 chests). Rewards from Wolf rep are set item levels, so w/o the xp buff, you get them at lower levels.

People say the mobs that get summoned for Maiden don't all give XP, but XP seemed fast enough. So eventually I mostly just tried to find Maiden groups. In WT2 and WT3 that can be more difficult, but regardless, I would fish for 3 or 4 people killing Maiden "quickly" by gating back and forth to town, once I got to maiden. Primetime had a lot of people in helltides, so instance/shard jumping was pretty easy.

I almost always ran a mindcage in the helltide. Even if, at some levels it didn't increase XP gain, it did increase cinder gain.

Burns said:

I think they fixed the Helltide mob spawn sploit, so Helltide spam might not be as good as it once was. Also, if the XP buff is still up, it kinda changes things.

With the Helltide bug available and w/o the XP buff, my preferred leveling method was spamming Helltides while maximizing Wolf rep gains. What that means is jump up WT as soon as possible, but once you collect 1000+ cinders, go back down to WT2 and open all the chests in the WT2 Helltide for 120 rep each (difference is around 400 rep per 2 zone helltide, between WT2 and WT3 chests). Rewards from Wolf rep are set item levels, so w/o the xp buff, you get them at lower levels.

People say the mobs that get summoned for Maiden don't all give XP, but XP seemed fast enough. So eventually I mostly just tried to find Maiden groups. In WT2 and WT3 that can be more difficult, but regardless, I would fish for 3 or 4 people killing Maiden "quickly" by gating back and forth to town, once I got to maiden. Primetime had a lot of people in helltides, so instance/shard jumping was pretty easy.

I almost always ran a mindcage in the helltide. Even if, at some levels it didn't increase XP gain, it did increase cinder gain.

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I heard that too about Maiden and theyre full of shit. Maybe in a later WT or something, but I went from like 20 ? 30? to late 50's in just a couple of hours doing nothing but farming Maiden.

Daidraco said:

I heard that too about Maiden and theyre full of shit. Maybe in a later WT or something, but I went from like 20 ? 30? to late 50's in just a couple of hours doing nothing but farming Maiden.

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You still get fast xp there, but it is true that some mobs don't give xp/loot/rep/threat. I think it's just the elites that spawn four at a time when she does the flame wall and flies up in the air, generally nobody kills them anyway unless they die to splash damage.

rhinohelix said:

"Class balance is completely in the dumpster"=there's a variance of about 30 levels at the highest end of the Pit between the lowest performing class/builds (Druid) and the highest performing class (currently Sorc with the immortal flameshield/fire bolt build but Barb and Necro have easier paths to second and third). All of the classes are able to do well in NMD and in the Open World/Helltides farming/Blood Maiden.

That won't stop the laments, though, which seemingly will always be with us: "Sorcerer is RUINED" cries the title of the RageGamingVideos: Diablo 4 - Sorcerer is Dead - New HUGE Patch Changes Breakdown - New Worst Class in Game! brings a tear to my eye thinking about EQ:

FYI, this was my firs time playing Sorc in retail but I died less playing Sorc than on my Barb or Necro; I have two Sorcs, rather than respec my Fire Sorc I just made another for the Blizzard/Frozen Orb Sorc. Once I committed to the Frozen Orb build, QoL was 1000% better.

I think I will work on pushing Pit for a while, and then tweak out the other two classes for their builds before the season ends. I still have some Paragon points to get from completing all the regions.

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Well I'm not preaching end of the world either, but I guess those guys have to get the clicks somehow. =)

It's pretty clear that I'm unlikely to make it much past the 70s or 80s in the Pit, partly due to getting old (skill, muscle memory, twitch reflexes), and interest really. Some class/skill combinations just scale into the end game FAR better than others, and I'm imagining the ramp into those last 30 Pit levels is a pretty steep one.

Comparing my own experience with Blizzard/Ice Spikes Sorc vs. Werewolf Companion Druid when I first hit the Pit, it became obvious that the killing speed of the Sorc was ramping up way faster as I improved gear pieces and started master-working. Night and day really, even though the Druid was really good at killing bosses in the earlier levels. Partly because of mechanics sure, but Ice Spikes just scales really well. Also the big damage button for Werewolves has a decent cooldown, and as the packs get bigger and more dangerous, it just stops working.

(I've since re-specced and experimenting with a couple of landslide builds, much more consistent damage, though not as much fun for me as the pure melee build)

Anyway, the point I was originally trying to make is that the math has been done, the numbers are there to see. When some class/skill combos can scale damage orders of magnitude higher then others can, that translates to the "average" player like me as grinding a lot harder/longer for fewer and fewer returns, and hitting the ceiling faster.

So yeah, with respect, dumpster it is.

Tmac said:

Part of the fun I’ve found in Diablo is farming and trying out new builds. But, the difficulty of RNG + bricking the few good items you do find for builds really prevents this from happening.

The time invested doesn’t pay off, so people are forced to buy gold to get new items, creating a helluva black market.

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They need spec memory buttons like D3, so you can switch back and forth. It's certainly one of the dumb choices they made, not including it.

Tmac said:

Part of the fun I’ve found in Diablo is farming and trying out new builds. But, the difficulty of RNG + bricking the few good items you do find for builds really prevents this from happening.

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Not to mention the ~5.5 million gold cost to fully reset paragon, which is necessary for most build swaps. Unless you're making a permanent swap (for that there's the scrolls), you pretty much just have to level up another character of the same class if you want to play a different build.

Not being able to swap between gear/spec in the armory like in d3 is probably one of the biggest fuck ups imaginable and the entire team should be fired for not having it in the game yet.

Tmac said:

Part of the fun I’ve found in Diablo is farming and trying out new builds. But, the difficulty of RNG + bricking the few good items you do find for builds really prevents this from happening.

The time invested doesn’t pay off, so people are forced to buy gold to get new items, creating a helluva black market.

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Im curious if there was a time intensive way to rewind an item back to its clean state - would that really help the situation? Cause I think my motives went from "gotta find the best gear" to "my gears good enough, let me knock out as much of the season pass pages as I can." Now Im on the last few of them, and.. I have no desire to make another character. So after I wrap up the last page for those titles, Im done again.

Brahma said:

Made a rogue. Anyone have tips for leveling and such? I have an Andariel's I wanted to kinda build with till I get a shako.

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This is pretty much the build I used. I have a shako. I have a 100 necro, barb and now rogue and the rogue is hands down the most fun to play out of those 3. This build can easily solo all the tormented bosses including Echo of Lilith. My gear isn't perfect by any means and only master worked to tier 2. I have only gotten to tier 93 in the pit but I haven't really focused much on it. I didn't realize till my rogue was level 90 but any uber unique you make with shards can be equipped at level 35 if you take the gem out of it.

Just unlocked tier 101 pit with this build. The last 6 points on the paragon are up too you where to put them. I went with the hunter killer rare node in the exploit weakness board.

Posted the wrong link before. This is the correct one.

I've been doing WW / Dustdevil on Barb and man it is getting buffed.

Using this as baseline:


Add the Yen's Blessing Boots which will fire one of your shouts on cooldown guaranteed every 8 seconds (which also fires more dust devils). You'll also have 4 evade charges.