DOTA 2
- Thread starter Bels_sl
- Start date
What are you like 12? go bcak to lol!1!! uninstall doto1!11! Perhaps when you grow up you'll learn about making an argument.
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Yeah that's irrelevant, the singular suggestions you make would turn them to trash easily.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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I fail to see how tweaking Furion's treants CD and Wisp relocate time/CD would turn them into trash tier. Batrider shows that sometimes it's really fucking hard to nerf a hero when his sole ability is the best initiation in the whole game.
G3, now the finals will be a stomp.
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Out of a list of 13 things you're obviously going to look at the 1 (treant CD) that's reasonable. The rest would change the heroes too much and definitely ruin them.
I'm not a big fan of rat doto, but it's not really ruining the game like it was last year. If that's the kind of strat Alliance wants to run, more power to them. It can be beaten, but it can also be very strong if executed properly. That's the kind of balance I'm looking for. A single "proper" style of game play is what needs to be avoided, not encouraged.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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Well, when you are throwing shit against the wall, only something will stick, obviously. Blanket statement that he's a retard doesn't help the discussion.
Rat dota has pretty obvious counter this time around - storm is great, both disruptor and kunkka fuck teleporters in the butt and the lanes have enough room for them to fit into any lineup.
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I didn't call him a retard, I said the things he suggested to fix the game aren't the way things are done in dota.
One thing I would like to see is a tweak to early game strategies. It doesn't seem like there is enough of a downside right now to picking a greedy multi-core lineup. If you draft a gank-centric or early team fight lineup, you can often times completely dominate the first 30 minutes of the game, but still end up losing just because of the difficulty of attacking the high ground. So many cores have such high-impact ults or strong counter-push spells that it hardly even matters that they lost the early game. Hold the T3, farm up, pop your midas when its off cool down, and push out at 45-50 minutes to win the game.
That's part of the reason Lycan is so feared right now. If you fall behind against a Lycan, your T3s can fall on the back of one bad fight. He actually can actually let you end the game super fast early on, unlike almost any other hero. We need more heroes with that kind of potential. Either that, or increase the amount of gold you get for kills early game. If you execute a successful 4 man gank sub 20 minutes, the assisting heroes get maybe like 40 gold. About a single creep. Increase that to 120 gold, and all of a sudden you won't be able to just sit back and relax. Giving away kills early game is going to mean fast blinks, arcanes, aghs, etc. even on non-farmers. Abilities alone won't let a bunch of cores hold high ground against that.
That's part of the reason Lycan is so feared right now. If you fall behind against a Lycan, your T3s can fall on the back of one bad fight. He actually can actually let you end the game super fast early on, unlike almost any other hero. We need more heroes with that kind of potential. Either that, or increase the amount of gold you get for kills early game. If you execute a successful 4 man gank sub 20 minutes, the assisting heroes get maybe like 40 gold. About a single creep. Increase that to 120 gold, and all of a sudden you won't be able to just sit back and relax. Giving away kills early game is going to mean fast blinks, arcanes, aghs, etc. even on non-farmers. Abilities alone won't let a bunch of cores hold high ground against that.
Enemy heroes determine how hard it is to go highground, heroes like tinker, brew, sk, es, void, etc., it's not so much game mechanics.
LD or even Naix can highground pretty easy with an aegis.
Genjiro
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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They knew all they had to do was keep from being rax'ed in 2 lanes and last past like 20 minutes because they couldnt lose teamfights.
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It's also the map itself. Going high ground means fighting in a choke point. You can only spread at the bottom(but only a few heroes can actually attack decently from there and miss chance and you don't have vision if defense team removes wards) or inside the base but your movement is very limited due to buildings and once you're in, getting out is rough so you need to actually be prepared to fight. On top of that yeah add heroes abilities that make the whole thing dangerous(especially aoe ulti, due to the chokepoint thing) and that's why it's rough and summons or spells that can chip the tower from low ground are very nice to push the base.
But anyway that's how it should be imo. Yes you can dominate all early and still lose, fuck it'd be awful if you couldn't, you'd never see any lategame strats ever and just push/early strats. Doing a full early push fast game strat means you know you have to break high ground early and you have to do it several times(since rez timers are short and building damage is fairly low at that point even with pushing abilities) and if you can't you lose the game, it's a gamble that sometimes pays off and sometimes not. Otherwise you should expect the game to go 30+ mins and draft accordingly. If you draft yourself into a 25mins win or bust, there's no room to complain that the opponent drafted 3core double midas heroes and they're winning because you couldn't push high ground.
But anyway that's how it should be imo. Yes you can dominate all early and still lose, fuck it'd be awful if you couldn't, you'd never see any lategame strats ever and just push/early strats. Doing a full early push fast game strat means you know you have to break high ground early and you have to do it several times(since rez timers are short and building damage is fairly low at that point even with pushing abilities) and if you can't you lose the game, it's a gamble that sometimes pays off and sometimes not. Otherwise you should expect the game to go 30+ mins and draft accordingly. If you draft yourself into a 25mins win or bust, there's no room to complain that the opponent drafted 3core double midas heroes and they're winning because you couldn't push high ground.
Genjiro
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I'm just looking forward to getting all the heroes not in CM back in CM or newer ones like LC and TB, but other than that I totally agree it seems like its in a very good place