Dragon Age: Why We Can't Have Nice Things

Secrets

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I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that you genuinely think culture war faggotry has nothing to do with a game being good or the fact that you keep saying her and she.

Fuck you.
Just as someone's race, religion, political beliefs, or identity has nothing to do with their ability to perform a job, I'd imagine that would apply here, too, no? We shouldn't hire someone just because they're black or trans. We should hire someone because their skills match the job.

You can't be 'anti-woke' and then say that only specific groups of people that aren't 'woke' people can perform jobs. I have met plenty of incompetent people from all walks of life, from both the 'woke' crowd and outside of it.
You can, however, just hire talented people for roles they fit, and that's what the entire industry SHOULD be doing instead of 'DEI' hiring quotas.

True DEI is when you don't let political biases impact your hiring decision. It's when you hire the right person for the job because they're qualified and demonstrate proficiency and ability to communicate with others on the team. If that ends up with a multi cutural or diverse team, or a team of mostly the same background, it doesn't fucking matter as long as they're able to make the game and get along together enough to make something good, no?
 
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Furry

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Just as someone's race, religion, political beliefs, or identity has nothing to do with their ability to perform a job, I'd imagine that would apply here, too, no?

This is objectively wrong.
 
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Secrets

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This is objectively wrong.
So, you're woke, then? If you believe that someone's race, sexuality or gender identity is impactful to their career, wouldn't that make you woke by the slang itself?
aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)

In my opinion, that shouldn't be a factor in the hiring process nor representative of someone's ability to do their job. Which when saying "Someone's race, religion, political beliefs, or identity" matters in the hiring process, isn't that, in itself, woke? That's what saying "this is objectively wrong" means in this context.

I generally stay out of these subjects because showing via action is far more important than any words you can say. So, for this game, if it's good, I'll buy it. If it's not good, I won't buy it. Don't preorder games.
 
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Furry

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So, you're woke, then? If you believe that someone's race, sexuality or gender identity is impactful to their career, wouldn't that make you woke by the slang itself?
aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)

In my opinion, that shouldn't be a factor in the hiring process nor representative of someone's ability to do their job. Which when saying "Someone's race, religion, political beliefs, or identity" matters in the hiring process, isn't that, in itself, woke? That's what saying "this is objectively wrong" means in this context.

I generally stay out of these subjects because showing via action is far more important than any words you can say. So, for this game, if it's good, I'll buy it. If it's not good, I won't buy it. Don't preorder games.
I don’t care what monikers you use for me. I am a realist that thinks some races and females are stupider, and atheists tend to be lazier, more prone to degenerate behavior. Additionally, sexual degenerates should be fired if they can’t keep that shit private and out of work.

I think the technical term for my beliefs on the subject are eugenics, but if you wish to call me woke I’m fine with that.

I don’t buy games or support companies in general if they make a practice of hiring inferior employees or pushing agendas that push lies like “equality”. People are born equal, but past that brief first cry out of mom, our genetics and experience amplify the difference in our innate potential.
 
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Caliane

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Personal opinion: Those kinds of 'this game is going to be queer' comments are specifically targeted at a community that already exists in Dragon Age and has existed for years and years before this new game. Dragon Age was a woke game before the term 'woke' was even coined. It shouldn't come as a surprise that someone who directs a game is also a queer person.

For the forum dwellers here, it shouldn't matter as long as the game's good. The lot of you will play good games because they're good.

I don't have enough energy to care if the game is woke or based, I just care that the game is good, and a high percentage of people will play games that are good. They may try it out depending on shit like this, but generally they won't actively avoid playing a good game if word of mouth travels that it's a solid title.

I think Asmongold said it best when he said that no one gives a shit about this stuff being included in games. Or, rather, that players do not simply care about who or what is making a video game. They only care that the game is fun, enjoyable and contains a non-predatory monetization model like a box purchase w/o day one DLC.

Look at WoW and how people just ignored, largely, the Blizzard Kotaku hit pieces and played anyway. A majority of consumers don't care about that, they only care that the game is good, and during that time the development team was impacted by that shit, they came out with BfA, Shadowlands, etc - so I'd say there's a correlation between a game being utter dogshit and people playing it, not who is making it.

Gender politics has zero to do with a game being good or not. If two dudes are kissing but we have quality gameplay in the game & it returns Dragon Age to its roots and is actually fun? I think everyone will watch two dudes make out if it means playing a fun and exciting game, but they aren't playing it because two dudes are kissing, they're playing it because the game is good.

People who play games aren't caring about this stuff. It should be a nice to have for those who see it, but it doesn't need to be put on blast.

By the way, that trans woman has been the game director far before Mark Kern pointed her out on his Twitter. She's been with the company since the original Dragon Age, and it's safe to say that her presence will change absolutely fucking nothing if the people working around her aren't making a fun game. I fully expect EA to fuck this whole thing up far before she would.

you start off recognizing Bioware, and DA has been woke as hell since DA. Bioware is absolutely the prime source of infection in the game industry.


"When the romances in Baldur's Gate 2 were made, I didn't even think to suggest we should include same-sex romances … because why would you? It just wasn't done. The first time it came up was on Knights of the Old Republic, with Juhani, and that wasn't my doing. I was, in fact, completely startled by the idea that, not only was this a thing that could happen, but moreso that my fellow developers — the vast majority of whom are straight men — would not only be okay with it but actually want to include it. I'm not sure I can express how that made me feel."―David Gaider, co-developer of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, on how Juhani impacted his writing[11]


Juhani first appeared in the 2003 video game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and was voiced by Courtenay Taylor.[1] The character's name was originally going to be "Bastila Shan," with early concept art depicting Juhani wearing the color scheme that Bastila wears in the final game.[12] Juhani is technically an optional companion, as players can choose the dark side dialogue options that end with the player having to kill Juhani; however, the 2012 novel The Old Republic: Revan by Drew Karpyshyn confirmed that Juhani was canonically redeemed and joined Revan's party, and continued to serve as a Jedi after the events of Knights of the Old Republic.[13]

Juhani was the first character in the Star Wars universe to be portrayed as LGBTQ+, one of the earliest positive representations of LGBTQ+ characters in video games,[14] and the first gay character of any gender in a video game developed by BioWare. Knights of the Old Republic co-designer David Gaider was surprised when his fellow developers, most of whom were straight men, proposed taking the risk. A gay man himself, he had never suggested a same-gender romance option because he believed fellow developers and audiences would not accept the idea.[11] Juhani's storyline as a lesbian character helped him realize he could include LGBTQ+ characters in his own work, such as when he later helmed the Dragon Age franchise.[15]

Because Juhani would be the first LGBTQ+ character in Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic co-writer Drew Karpyshyn said the team had to "tread pretty carefully." The resulting subtlety left some players unaware that Juhani was written to be lesbian.[14] The writing team did not seek anyone's permission to include Juhani's storyline,[16] and they were never told they could not or instructed to do otherwise. However, because the team's assumptions about the player base led them to censor themselves, Juhani never came out and explicitly said how she felt.[17] At the first GaymerX convention, Gaider said, "We kind of hid it in the game a little bit because she never comes out and actually says 'I love you.' She talks around it. There's another character she mentions in the game who was her lover in the past, but she never says, 'She was my lover.' She just says, 'We were very close,' things like that."[16] In a question-and-answer series on LucasArts' now-defunct LucasForums, Gaider wrote of Dantooine and Korriban that the player "could run into Juhani's former lover as well (and she would attack you if you killed Juhani),"[18] a description of events that only matches her friend Belaya.[1]

David Gaider is absolutely the source of all this horseshit. "representation" and woke talking points long before it was a known thing.
Bioware hires then went off to infiltrate other companies, or start their own.

people give a shit, because this "gender politics" takes priority over good game storytelling, and design and effects hiring. these woke assholes only hire other woke cultists. so its just spreads, and it effects how well games are made.

you finish off your post by stating that person has been a game dev since DA... the last decent Bioware game. how is that even arguing your point? everything from bioware since has been worse and worse and more woke and woke.
so I guess you are right. everything they have made since she has been there has been shit, and this one won't be any different.
 
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Caliane

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So, you're woke, then? If you believe that someone's race, sexuality or gender identity is impactful to their career, wouldn't that make you woke by the slang itself?
aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)

In my opinion, that shouldn't be a factor in the hiring process nor representative of someone's ability to do their job. Which when saying "Someone's race, religion, political beliefs, or identity" matters in the hiring process, isn't that, in itself, woke? That's what saying "this is objectively wrong" means in this context.

I generally stay out of these subjects because showing via action is far more important than any words you can say. So, for this game, if it's good, I'll buy it. If it's not good, I won't buy it. Don't preorder games.
Christian movies and games suck, because the point of a Christian media is to promote the Message of Jesus, not tell a good story, have good gameplay/mechanics or make money.

This is a similar issue with Movie tie in games. 99% of them are sold purely on the media tie in. not being a good game. its RARE for the dev to have the talent or drive to put the extra work in, and make a good game.
 
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Furry

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Christian movies and games suck, because the point of a Christian media is to promote the Message of Jesus, not tell a good story, have good gameplay/mechanics or make money.

This is a similar issue with Movie tie in games. 99% of them are sold purely on the media tie in. not being a good game. its RARE for the dev to have the talent or drive to put the extra work in, and make a good game.
You take that back, I love playing Cain the cougar in the zoo race.
 
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TomServo

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Personal opinion: Those kinds of 'this game is going to be queer' comments are specifically targeted at a community that already exists in Dragon Age and has existed for years and years before this new game. Dragon Age was a woke game before the term 'woke' was even coined. It shouldn't come as a surprise that someone who directs a game is also a queer person.

For the forum dwellers here, it shouldn't matter as long as the game's good. The lot of you will play good games because they're good.

I don't have enough energy to care if the game is woke or based, I just care that the game is good, and a high percentage of people will play games that are good. They may try it out depending on shit like this, but generally they won't actively avoid playing a good game if word of mouth travels that it's a solid title.

I think Asmongold said it best when he said that no one gives a shit about this stuff being included in games. Or, rather, that players do not simply care about who or what is making a video game. They only care that the game is fun, enjoyable and contains a non-predatory monetization model like a box purchase w/o day one DLC.

Look at WoW and how people just ignored, largely, the Blizzard Kotaku hit pieces and played anyway. A majority of consumers don't care about that, they only care that the game is good, and during that time the development team was impacted by that shit, they came out with BfA, Shadowlands, etc - so I'd say there's a correlation between a game being utter dogshit and people playing it, not who is making it.

Gender politics has zero to do with a game being good or not. If two dudes are kissing but we have quality gameplay in the game & it returns Dragon Age to its roots and is actually fun? I think everyone will watch two dudes make out if it means playing a fun and exciting game, but they aren't playing it because two dudes are kissing, they're playing it because the game is good.

People who play games aren't caring about this stuff. It should be a nice to have for those who see it, but it doesn't need to be put on blast.

By the way, that trans woman has been the game director far before Mark Kern pointed her out on his Twitter. She's been with the company since the original Dragon Age, and it's safe to say that her presence will change absolutely fucking nothing if the people working around her aren't making a fun game. I fully expect EA to fuck this whole thing up far before she would.
It's not a she it's a he. Also fuck every last gender queer commie kid fucking faggot
 
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Secrets

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You take that back, I love playing Cain the cougar in the zoo race.
I'd love more Christian-lore-based games, as in, the time period and era - the fall of Judaism and the rise of Christianity is actually a really interesting point in time, and a cinematic experience of the era told by both a Roman perspective and a Catholic perspective would actually make a great narrative experience.

This is because games are an art form, and...

its RARE for the dev to have the talent or drive to put the extra work in, and make a good game.
This should be the baseline for making a video game, and why indies have had a better time in recent years. AAA studios have forgotten what makes games great, and this pox has also spread to startups / AA dev as well.

And, it's not always that incredible talent of a specific discipline that leads to masterpieces, either.

Toby Fox made Undertale on a nonexistent budget, and he did not know how to code - the game's dialog is one giant switch statement and the game's rooms are handled in one big if/else chain. The game is honestly one of the best games of all time and was made in an engine (Game Maker) that would be considered unusable dogshit by most AAA studios.

But he had a dream and a drive. THAT is what makes great games.

And it's unreasonable to expect every studio to release the 'best games' all the time. There's no room for studios to scrap games anymore, so you see games come out like the Suicide Squad game - though that one is a case of upper management forcing a studio to shift their title to a specific type of online-enabled game. I've seen more games killed by upper management than any other factor.

I'd like to be pleasantly surprised by literally any game that comes out at this point. I don't hope for Bioware, or any studio to fail, either, as a fellow game dev. I just want great games, and everyone who works in our industry should strive for making the best experience they can. I imagine everyone wants the same. They don't care how we get there.
 
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popsicledeath

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For the forum dwellers here, it shouldn't matter as long as the game's good.

Your argument may have been valid when it came to basic sexuality. Gay people exist and having existence reflected in a game doesn't necessarily mean the game can't be good, just a bit different. And most of us were just fine with that.

But the queer movement isn't the same. Queerness isn't about identity or simple representation. They piggyback on those motions and have infiltrated those identities. But queerness is different. It's about action.

The founding documents of queerness and continued activists preach "doing" queerness. By that they mean subverting the status quo and uprooting all the things they deem as wrong with normative society, which is basically anything stable or functional. It's a subversive and destructive attempt at revolution, thus inherently sociopolitical.

This is why we don't just see queerness existing, but it's a constant struggle demanding change. And it's not the kind of change with the gay rights movement that was about what they should be able to do and how they should be able to exist mainly regarding marriage. The queer movement is about society being dismantled. It's about the rest of us being forced to change.

This is why these games and other forms of media don't just happen to have queer characters the way they happened to have gay characters in the past. The queer movement is about forcing political upheaval and change, which is why instead of happening to have queer characters we see studio heads and the like "doing queerness," which again is subverting norma and trying to change society.

They aren't making games that have gay characters because gay people exist and should be represented, which is at least a logical argument. Queer devs are now doing queerness, which often includes statements outside the game about how society and gamers are fundamentally wrong and must change.

Also keep in mind, again according to actual founding documents on queerness and current activist doctrine, a huge part of the queer movement is intentionally taking over existing institutions and movements for their own purposes.

For instance, despite queer founding documents explicitly stating it's not about sexuality or even identity, they've taken over the gay and lesbian, and trans movements and are now pushing an ideology of queer supremacy of sorts. To the point gay and lesbians are being pushed out of their own movements and having their own identities attacked if they aren't "doing queerness" properly.

And while a gay game developer might have that identity, but still the main focus of a game is the quality of product, just with added representation because game dev is also part of their identity and making a good product is also part of their principles.

A queer gamer developer has subscribed to an ideology that has no inherent dedication to any other identity or principles. To the point destroying a normative industry from within to spread queer ideology could very well be celebrated as doing queerness. That historically straight, white game studio producing patriarchal, capitalist games that pushed heteronormative ideas? No great loss! Actually good that it was subverted and destroyed in the name of queerness because now an acceptable queer alternative can take it's place.

The argument they're just making good games with new representation isn't logical be ause they explicitly state a tactic if queerness is to take over existing, normative movements and industry and destroy them if necessary in the name of queerness.

And it works, obviously, because people even in the industry will think queer activism is just like the gay rights movement and that was okay. Which is exactly why queerness employs such tactics openly and explicitly in their own doctrine.
 
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Secrets

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And while a gay game developer might have that identity, but still the main focus of a game is the quality of product, just with added representation because game dev is also part of their identity and making a good product is also part of their principles.

I'm only replying to the contextually relevant part here, the other parts are really unrelated and seem like they should go to the political parts of this forum.

A queer AAA game director who works at Bioware does so because:
1) They want to make money, This is needed to survive.
2) They know their core audience. They are in this position because they've been around the product for years.
3) They've worked there for years. This is because their work as a designer extends beyond storywriting and narrative and they are a valuable asset to the company. Be it via Level Design, some sort of eldrich knowledge or magic that holds their game engine or tooling together, or some sort of organizational and leadership skill that helps the company in some way to profit.

To accuse fucking Bioware, a game company that has consistently released games with some of the first gay / queer characters, of some sort of overarching mass media agenda that just recently surfaced is laughable.

It's their brand identity at this point. I'd be more surprised if they put someone in charge that DIDN'T make statements like their game director did.
 
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popsicledeath

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Christian movies and games suck, because the point of a Christian media is to promote the Message of Jesus, not tell a good story, have good gameplay/mechanics or make money.

This is a similar issue with Movie tie in games. 99% of them are sold purely on the media tie in. not being a good game. its RARE for the dev to have the talent or drive to put the extra work in, and make a good game.

This is a good analogy for the queer movement. There are plenty of Christian game devs and writers and movie producers who happen to be Christian and make good products. But the second they focus their efforts on spreading the word in all things, basically in doing Christianity, the product inevitably suffers, if not in quality then in appeal and relevance.

By their own definitions and doctrine the queer movement isn't about identity or even sexuality. It's about doing queerness, which they themselves claim is subverting and destroying the normative industries and society.

The second someone openly identified as queer their primary goal, if they're genuine or even just a good useful idiot, is to do queerness above all else.

It's the same as there being a ton of sane people in a variety of industries who happen to be Muslim. But Islam is different and becomes it's own thing that serves as social and governmental ideology that serves Islam above all else.

And interestingly Islam also has a similar practice as queerness of infiltrating Western industries and culture to destroy them or turn them from within. And of course well meaning Westerners fall for it, which is why it's a deliberate practice.

If forced to choose between Islam and queerness.... That'll be a tough one.
 
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Secrets

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This is a good analogy for the queer movement. There are plenty of Christian game devs and writers and movie producers who happen to be Christian and make good products. But the second they focus their efforts on spreading the word in all things, basically in doing Christianity, the product inevitably suffers, if not in quality then in appeal and relevance.

By their own definitions and doctrine the queer movement isn't about identity or even sexuality. It's about doing queerness, which they themselves claim is subverting and destroying the normative industries and society.

The second someone openly identified as queer their primary goal, if they're genuine or even just a good useful idiot, is to do queerness above all else.

It's the same as there being a ton of sane people in a variety of industries who happen to be Muslim. But Islam is different and becomes it's own thing that serves as social and governmental ideology that serves Islam above all else.

And interestingly Islam also has a similar practice as queerness of infiltrating Western industries and culture to destroy them or turn them from within. And of course well meaning Westerners fall for it, which is why it's a deliberate practice.

If forced to choose between Islam and queerness.... That'll be a tough one.
I'd agree with this, actually. Look at the Christian MMO the fuzzy troll lady made that split from Pantheon. That was an unmitigated shitshow and contained Christian principles.
A game like that has a small, niche audience and if the gameplay is shit on top of that, oh boy, you've made a dumpster fire.

In fiction, I'd prefer people to just make a game that's fun. If a narrative device ends up including a queer character, or a character that is a Christian-equivalent with core moral principles they share, then so be it, it should be by accident that it's included or has real-world parallels that tell a story. I think people play games to escape reality.

The OG Star Wars trilogy (sequels, not prequels) had the Empire which was a real-world parallel for Nazism. I think that was handled gracefully and that's an example of how to do that right. It's why Star Wars was (is?) a beloved franchise.

It's why the original EverQuest and honestly, as far back as tabletop D&D, was so good, too. It let people make their own reality that was better than the one we have outside of games. If I ever make my own indie game, it's going to be fun from a gameplay perspective and I'm going to pour my heart into its story and lore as people have for their game characters. There needs not be an agenda, the game has to just be fun.

(Though, if a game is engineered by a trans person, is it queer coded? ... I'll see myself out for that one.)
 
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Secrets

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Also, Izo Izo you need to stop dragging me into these types of threads. I get baited HARD. I just wanna make cool shit, man.
 
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Secrets

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You can't. Sorry.
This only makes me want to try and succeed more.

1717861819025.png
 
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Tide27

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I am truly speechless at how these companies continue to set hundreds of millions of dollars on fire.

I just can't come to ANY conclusion that makes ANY sense.

It's not like they don't have dozens of examples to learn from. Between movies, streaming, gaming, etc. they have watched billions of dollars evaporate by trying to force shit down our throats.

Initially, I was upset over realizing this game was going to be trash, but that was several years ago when the creative director was revealed to be a complete caricature of the stereoptypical Leftist. Now, I couldn't care less and cheer every time these fucking morons take a giant L and hundreds of them get pinked slipped.

Go cry in your waifu bodypillows until you get the courage to hit the self-delete button, you fucking worthless degenerates.
Probably has a lot to do with ESG scores and whatnot. There is no way all these CEOs across all businesses are making these decisions after seeing the fallout time after time and thinking that somehow it will be different in their case.

Someone is financing these decisions. These narratives are being forced on the population from every angle, so you can be sure its a coordinated govt program involved in there somewhere.
 
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Sylas

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So in this thread I learned that there was a gay character all the way back in KOTOR 20+ years ago but as the edgelord that younger me was (and still is) i fucking murdered the faggot for darkside points before ever learning their sexual orientation thus I spent the last 20+ years fondly remembering this game but never having known about its closeted faggotry.

See now that is fucking well implemented LGBTQIPEDO+ content in video games. If only they kept that up instead of shoving it down our throats.
 
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Gavinmad

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I thought something was up when you kept referring to a male as she and her but I didn't realize you were a dickchopper. So apparently you're some kind of one in a million trannicorn who just wants to live in peace with your delusions and mutilated body rather than relentlessly bludgeoning people with your lifestyle and pronouns, grooming children, and just generally vanessaing every single conversation, although maybe you just have the common sense to keep the grooming quiet.

So yes unlike the rest of your misbegotten ilk you may be capable of writing a compelling story because your life isn't defined solely by pronouns, acronyms, and hashtags. The brains of people whose twitter bio look like the Dragon Age director are so profoundly broken that they churn out garbage like a sanctimonious Qunari faggot with the ever so subtle name 'Iron Bull' and his trans buddy who angrily lecture you about their disgusting culture, or the one tranny crew member in Andromeda who aggressively volunteers the fact that they're trans without any prompting and whose dialogue was so fucking terrible that they apparently changed it in a patch. Although that crew member probably wasn't written by a dickchopper but rather just some adjacent virtue signaling trash because I remember something about it deadnaming itself at the very beginning of the conversation which someone who actually knew anything about the dickchopper cult wouldn't have done.

To be clear it's not just dickchoppers, it's the entire didn't earn it cult whose compulsive need to cram their trash message down everyone's throat supersedes telling a good story. Dickchoppers just happen to have the most non-functional brains out of the whole lot.
 
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Lanx

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So, you're woke, then? If you believe that someone's race, sexuality or gender identity is impactful to their career, wouldn't that make you woke by the slang itself?
aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
i searched for dei department head
76d0f048e8ffa91c0216093f99df26d0.jpg


imagine creating an entire department to hire nogs to do absolutely nothing of worth, dei is just legal aa, so yea you'll have a white girl (most likely openly gay) slip in
 
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