Furry
🌭🍔🇺🇦✌️SLAVA UKRAINI!✌️🇺🇦🍔🌭
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Dune (2020)
- Thread starter Juvarisx
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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I think this misses the key part, his prescience. Peacemakers just a dumb soldier following orders.
Leto's the one who sees the Golden Path (the only future that leads to the persistence of humanity) and has the balls to make it happen, despite the unpleasantness it requires.
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Furry
🌭🍔🇺🇦✌️SLAVA UKRAINI!✌️🇺🇦🍔🌭
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The tyrant actually did nothing wrong. Explaining why creating a universe where everyone can live their lives in such happy tranquility is so evil is the point of the book.
Denamian
Night Janitor
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It's not peace, it's enforced tranquility. For 3500 years, humanity stagnates, then starts to regress, an effective dark age. Interstellar travel comes to a near halt for all but Leto's Fish Speaker armies and an elite few. Humanity is bottled up and any resistance to Leto's rule is brutally crushed with few exceptions.
Arrakis is terraformed so the worms die out and spice production halts. Leto II sits on his stockpile, doling it out as he sees fit and seeking out any rogue stockpiles. Near total control of the spice (and the Fish Speakers) is how he keeps the other powers in line.
He takes over the Bene Gesserit breeding program and eventually succeeds in making a person who cannot be seen by prescience.
He does all of this because Paul trapped humanity. His visions both predicted the future and created it. His choices doomed humanity to eventual extinction. After 3500 years of control over humanity, Leto II is assassinated by the product of his breeding program. Freed from it's confinement, humanity explodes across the universe. Combined with the results of the breeding program, humanity can no longer be trapped by prescience again.
Arrakis is terraformed so the worms die out and spice production halts. Leto II sits on his stockpile, doling it out as he sees fit and seeking out any rogue stockpiles. Near total control of the spice (and the Fish Speakers) is how he keeps the other powers in line.
He takes over the Bene Gesserit breeding program and eventually succeeds in making a person who cannot be seen by prescience.
He does all of this because Paul trapped humanity. His visions both predicted the future and created it. His choices doomed humanity to eventual extinction. After 3500 years of control over humanity, Leto II is assassinated by the product of his breeding program. Freed from it's confinement, humanity explodes across the universe. Combined with the results of the breeding program, humanity can no longer be trapped by prescience again.
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Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Lith, you just overexplained the one relationship that was sufficiently explained in BOTH movies.
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Lithose
Buzzfeed Editor
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It was never mentioned, or even intimated that the guild was behind everything in this film. Not once.
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Bandwagon
Kolohe
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The spacing guild directly threatened the emporer in the 1984 movie and they weren't doing it with the implication of an army. The explanation about.....timeout, a 3.5yo needs to take a morning shit
Warpath
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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the first 90 minutes was 10/10. the back half seemed a little choppy with story/pacing...7/10
costumes, cinematography, tech/ship designs are brilliant. black lady doctor was a miss. hated the yoko ono soundtrack stuff
definitely look forward to directors cut and part 2
costumes, cinematography, tech/ship designs are brilliant. black lady doctor was a miss. hated the yoko ono soundtrack stuff
definitely look forward to directors cut and part 2
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Lithose
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Not sure what you're remembering--they didn't threaten him.
He looks intimidated, but they only ask him to share what he's up to and then order him to kill Paul. Plus, you asked about the books--you didn't mention the 1984 movie. The Emperor's relationship with the guild, being their strong man (And thus troop quality being hugely important), and the guild desiring to hide their influence and appear 'unbiased', are huge aspects of the books that are not in either film.
"Stop playing the fool," Paul barked [at the Emperor]. "The Guild is like a village beside a river. They need the water, but can only dip out what they require. They cannot dam the river and control it, because that focuses attention on what they take, it brings down eventual destruction. The spice flow, that's their river, and I have built a dam. But my dam is such that you cannot destroy it without destroying the river."
So the way the 84 films portrays things is also bad...The guild did need the Emperor, their relationship was far more symbiotic than shown. The Emperor was fearful though of being replaced in that role by House Atreides.
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Its been awhile but in one of the books they explain the process of selecting suitable youths for induction into the spacing guild. They are raised up on greater and greater amounts of spice. I think we can assume the people in white with the helmets filled with spice gas are these recruits-in-training that will one day become full fledged navigators.
The whole comment about "three navigators are here" could mean there were two additional high-liners up in orbit, as a kind of show of force to make sure Leto accepted the Emperors orders.
The spacing guild was incredibly powerful, in one of the books someone (escapes me which faction) tries to resist their orders and the navigators instantly teleport their orbiting high-liners away and the people stuck on the planet are like "oh shit we really do have zero power, they could leave us here isolated and stranded for thousands of years if they want and no one can come save us".
The whole comment about "three navigators are here" could mean there were two additional high-liners up in orbit, as a kind of show of force to make sure Leto accepted the Emperors orders.
The spacing guild was incredibly powerful, in one of the books someone (escapes me which faction) tries to resist their orders and the navigators instantly teleport their orbiting high-liners away and the people stuck on the planet are like "oh shit we really do have zero power, they could leave us here isolated and stranded for thousands of years if they want and no one can come save us".
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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I just watched the 1984 one again last night. They absolutely did threaten him. Right after the threat, the spacing guild reps leave the room and the emporer yells that he wants 50 legions of sour dookies on Dune right now. Some cheese dick off to the side replies with "that's all of our reserves as well". I don't need to write a thesis on my phone to drive the point home. Go watch it again.
Lithose
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Ahh, probably the second time they are in there--haven't watched it in a while, my bad.
But it doesn't matter...Because how Lynch shows the relationship is not like the books, and you asked about the books. As said, the Emperor has a more symbiotic relationship with them. They didn't just treat him like he was some pawn they could eliminate easily, he's integral to their power structure and more like an ally. The only time they ever threaten him is AFTER he's been defeated by Paul. And the quote above is important in terms of understanding why the Guild doesn't use hard power and needs the emperor for that, because they fear attention.
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Drinsic
privileged excrementlord
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when people say Emperor in this thread I think there is also some confusion.
in books 1-2 the Emperor aka the Padishah Emperor aka Commander of the Saurdukar is just a normal dude who has some power but isn't really important. He might be in 2-3 scenes in movie 2 but its not a hugely pivotal role, just the ceremonial figurehead of the Empire that Paul Atreides is fighting against. The Princess Irulan, the hottie chick in the 1984 Lynch movie who is the narrator (with the floating face) at the start is his daughter, in 2021 Dune Paul briefly mentions her in talking about what his next steps are near the end, whether getting off planet or staying on Dune.
people also constantly mention in this thread The God Emperor, that is a VASTLY different person that books 3 & 4 revolve around. Its not really worth talking about him for now, he is many movies (or TV shows) away and thousands of years in the future of the series.
hopefully we see some news out of WB today on part 2, sadly DenisV has said no directors cut of the movie exists
After Jason Momoa Calls For A Dune Director’s Cut, Denis Villeneuve Has Responded
Denis Villeneuve responds to call for a "Villeneuve Cut."www.cinemablend.com
There are tons of unused hours of footage, maybe some of it will make it to part 2
If there's tons of unused footage, a director's cut can be made. Hopefully the demand for it will be there. Hell, there's several scenes and dialogue in the first trailer alone that didn't make it.
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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This all came about because I was flicking you shit for explaining one of the only things that seemed obvious to me in both movies, especially the 1984 version. I've read a bunch of stuff in this thread and in synopsis of the books that I had no idea about, but the power of the spacing guild (through non-militaristic means) was very obvious. Even your example where you use OPSEC as a proximal example was a thought that ran through my head when watching the beginning of the new one.
Obviously there is a metric fuckton of lore that people like me don't know because we didn't read the books, but the fact that military might doesn't truly rule the roost (other than controlling spice production) during this era of the Dune "universe" should be pretty damn obvious to people that only watched the movies.
edit: and yes, it was during the second time the spacing guild sees the emperor in the first movie. It's obvious he's beholden to them during the first encounter as well, but the 2nd encounter was more of a blatant threat.