Dune (2020)
- Thread starter Juvarisx
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Sterling
El Presidente
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Messiah and Children are both after Dune and before GEoD. Both are fine books, but books 1 and 4 are definitely the peak of the series for most people, myself included.
Denamian
Night Janitor
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He couldn't kill himself because if he did, the path that Paul had set humanity on would continue. The Golden Path was the only way to save humanity from extinction. Paul knew it, but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Humanity needed to become immune to a single prescient being locking them in to a future that brings about their end.
The brutality came from how the tranquility was enforced. He killed literal trillions during what was a 3500 year long inquisition. nu_11 was right on point that he needed to teach humanity a lesson and the brutality was part of that.
Leto II is an interesting character, he is both the hero and villain. He is also a collective organism, both mentally and physically. As a child he allowed sandtrout (larval worms) to cover and bond with his body, which is how his metamorphosis happens. Mentally, he has access to the memories of all his ancestors. Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers have this, but only along the female line. The Kwitzach Haderach was bred to have access to both sides. The problem is that these personalities aren't always friendly to the host and can influence/possibly take over. Since Leto II awakened to the memories as a child, he had to form an alliance with them due to not being strong enough to keep them in line.
The brutality came from how the tranquility was enforced. He killed literal trillions during what was a 3500 year long inquisition. nu_11 was right on point that he needed to teach humanity a lesson and the brutality was part of that.
Leto II is an interesting character, he is both the hero and villain. He is also a collective organism, both mentally and physically. As a child he allowed sandtrout (larval worms) to cover and bond with his body, which is how his metamorphosis happens. Mentally, he has access to the memories of all his ancestors. Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers have this, but only along the female line. The Kwitzach Haderach was bred to have access to both sides. The problem is that these personalities aren't always friendly to the host and can influence/possibly take over. Since Leto II awakened to the memories as a child, he had to form an alliance with them due to not being strong enough to keep them in line.
Denamian
Night Janitor
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Messiah is short and wraps up Paul's story. Children is good, but it's really the set up for God Emperor. Option 3 is what I'd encourage everyone to try.
Option 5 doesn't exist.
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Frank Herbert reminds me somewhat of Robert Heinlein in terms how far you go in their books. They both have a crescendo point, then it's "how weird do you REALLY wanna get?" Heinlein got weird in the self serving, kinda full of himself, he's the God of his universe kinda way. Herbert got weird in the "Let's see how many drugs the reader needs to do to keep up" kinda way...
And yes, Option 5 doesn't exist. It's like when someone asks me how many Star Wars movies there are I will say 6, and that is all.
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rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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Yes
Yes
Indeed
Yes.
As i (kinda) understood it: Paul by becoming the Kwitzach Haderach had set humanity on a course for destruction/extinction, and the Golden Path was the only way to avoid that outcome. Leto II had to do it because Paul wouldn't make the necessary choices. The 3500 years was required to have a breeding program that resulted in offspring that were invisible to prescience and thus broke the power of prophets and oracles over mankind.
It wasn't just himself he was trying to kill, he was trying to make sure Mankind was safe from all future Prescient beings.
- points the wiki makes: He also makes the Bene Gesserit, who basically have super powers, into the Fish Dancers, his private army, who will become Atreides super-rapists to pass on their super speed and skills into human blood lines. Plus he hoards all the spice and kills all the worms (except for those who live in his body), thus incentivizing Tech innovation to replace Space Guild navigators and Arrakis' only spice with artificial spice.
Both I and the wiki agreed that after this and his death, humanity was released from enforced tranquility into the Scattering, a new period of colonization and exploration.
It wasn't just himself he was trying to kill, he was trying to make sure Mankind was safe from all future Prescient beings.
- points the wiki makes: He also makes the Bene Gesserit, who basically have super powers, into the Fish Dancers, his private army, who will become Atreides super-rapists to pass on their super speed and skills into human blood lines. Plus he hoards all the spice and kills all the worms (except for those who live in his body), thus incentivizing Tech innovation to replace Space Guild navigators and Arrakis' only spice with artificial spice.
Both I and the wiki agreed that after this and his death, humanity was released from enforced tranquility into the Scattering, a new period of colonization and exploration.
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It was ok, liked some of it, didn't like a significant amount.
Things like altering Lady Jessica seducing the guards with the voice, which would be a natural extension and make sense given it's a female power.
Fight scenes were pretty dumb, I know there's the whole shield thing, and moving the blade slowly, but I swear with each movie progression, its just broadcasting how men forget more and more how to fight. You can’t fucking roll over the top of somebodies body like in a dance video it doesn’t make sense, and it doesn’t look convincing when uke has to actually support you in the movement.
The protagonist, poor casting. When he's talking about how to walk on the sand, I was almost convinced he was setting up a bit, because he sounded so unconvincing.
To frail, just so frail that's its not reasonable to think he could survive the desert, let alone fight, they also didn't bother talking about how he was being secretly trained as a Mentat in the Gurney Halleck scene.
Shit I'm pretty sure Shadout Mapes sheathed the Kris Knife without drawing blood, what the fuck?
The fight scene was rushed into, didn’t they fight inside the cave? They can’t afford to waste water in the day, with their maskoff. Isn’t he supposed to take his name after that fight, and doesn’t he cry and they make a big deal about shedding water for the dead? Isn’t there also the water ritual after the fight?
the ending with the stupid, oh they have to wrap up the movie heres a guy riding a sandworm shoehorned in at the end and some weird line from the girl that doesn’t fit.
Not sure why all of the Harkannons had to be bald, not sure I remember that in the books.
Petyr was a non character
Baron was too brass and tacks, he didn’t come accross as conniving and smarmy, he had certain effeminate affectations in the book.
The importance of the Spice really wasn’t elaborated on enough etc…
the scene where Paul snaps at Jessica, he doesn’t break down does he? Pretty sure there’s a power exchange and he basically acknowledges he’s become an insane omniscient god and she has to start listening to him, at least until they run into Stilgur.
Weren’t Paul and Lady Jessica aware they were fucked prior to being fucked, didn’t paul see it in the dream and the Mother confirmed it, but compelled them not to say anything through the voice. Fuck wasn’t that in the trailer itself?
That scene where paul is having a vision and its a battle and he’s fucking dance fighting and his helmet comes down and he’s making that retarded face, its like straight out of a 7 year olds imagination.
Fuck I said this movie was ok, but the more I type the more I hate on it.
I thought the worms looked cool, I thought the spaceships looked cool. The Thopters were badass, those were legitimately cool, like Damsel Flies built out of machines
Things like altering Lady Jessica seducing the guards with the voice, which would be a natural extension and make sense given it's a female power.
Fight scenes were pretty dumb, I know there's the whole shield thing, and moving the blade slowly, but I swear with each movie progression, its just broadcasting how men forget more and more how to fight. You can’t fucking roll over the top of somebodies body like in a dance video it doesn’t make sense, and it doesn’t look convincing when uke has to actually support you in the movement.
The protagonist, poor casting. When he's talking about how to walk on the sand, I was almost convinced he was setting up a bit, because he sounded so unconvincing.
To frail, just so frail that's its not reasonable to think he could survive the desert, let alone fight, they also didn't bother talking about how he was being secretly trained as a Mentat in the Gurney Halleck scene.
Shit I'm pretty sure Shadout Mapes sheathed the Kris Knife without drawing blood, what the fuck?
The fight scene was rushed into, didn’t they fight inside the cave? They can’t afford to waste water in the day, with their maskoff. Isn’t he supposed to take his name after that fight, and doesn’t he cry and they make a big deal about shedding water for the dead? Isn’t there also the water ritual after the fight?
the ending with the stupid, oh they have to wrap up the movie heres a guy riding a sandworm shoehorned in at the end and some weird line from the girl that doesn’t fit.
Not sure why all of the Harkannons had to be bald, not sure I remember that in the books.
Petyr was a non character
Baron was too brass and tacks, he didn’t come accross as conniving and smarmy, he had certain effeminate affectations in the book.
The importance of the Spice really wasn’t elaborated on enough etc…
the scene where Paul snaps at Jessica, he doesn’t break down does he? Pretty sure there’s a power exchange and he basically acknowledges he’s become an insane omniscient god and she has to start listening to him, at least until they run into Stilgur.
Weren’t Paul and Lady Jessica aware they were fucked prior to being fucked, didn’t paul see it in the dream and the Mother confirmed it, but compelled them not to say anything through the voice. Fuck wasn’t that in the trailer itself?
That scene where paul is having a vision and its a battle and he’s fucking dance fighting and his helmet comes down and he’s making that retarded face, its like straight out of a 7 year olds imagination.
Fuck I said this movie was ok, but the more I type the more I hate on it.
I thought the worms looked cool, I thought the spaceships looked cool. The Thopters were badass, those were legitimately cool, like Damsel Flies built out of machines
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chthonic-anemos
bitchute.com/video/EvyOjOORbg5l/
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rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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Anyone who thinks of Timothee Chalamet as frail needs to go to Netflix right now and watch "The King" with Joel Edgerton. Chalamet is thin but after seeing his performance as "Hal"/Henry V in that, with his version of the St. Crispin's Day speech, I don't think of him as frail in the slightest. If your only exposure to him is as a gay kid in the "Call me by your name" or whatever movie, he's an actor: That's what he does. And he is a great fucking actor. Don't misinterpret his thinness for weakness.
I didn't think much of him until I accidently came across "The King" and watched it. That's when I got excited about his choice as Paul. I am huge fan now.
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So I should watch him act in another movie and somehow he will become stronger.
What the fuck are you talking about?
We are doomed as a species.
I strangle people for a hobby, and he is literally smaller than the teenager who I routinely allow to attempt to rip my my head off every other class, but can’t because he’s got such useless fucking tooth pick arms, that would buckle before he achieved anything of merit, not for a lack trying.
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Bandwagon
Kolohe
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In a world where melee combat plays a significant role, uh yea...He's definitely a little frail.
But I do like the actor for the same reason you do, and just about anyone else of his build would have come across as a total noodlebitch in the same role.
For what its worth, I didn't like that Robert Pattinson kid from Twighlight until I saw him in the King, too.
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I just read the book with my 13 year old. Is the movie appropriate to take him to? He really wants to see it. I generally am pretty lax about what my kids see, so this is likely okay, right?
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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maybe if your head wasn't so far up your ass you'd at least give that poor kid a chance!
Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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To me the prescience is the most interesting aspect. It was a deep exploration of how seeing the future could limit us, and how it could be used to ensure our survival. I don't see the solution that Leto came up with as an arbitrary plot device, but as a sincere statement about a possible best strategy for the survival of the species.
And yeah, the subjugation was critical to his plan, wasnt the goal to scatter humanity as far as possible? He had to give them strong enough motivation to get away.
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To be an aloof and brooding teen?
Oh you mean the kid? I literally force him to work into a reasonable submission. It’s pointless for me to tap him at this point. He’s literally in the same genre as the tourist women that I’ve got to make sure not to pull to hard on their arms so they don’t dislocate. No seriously, not from sub, just from contact….if the ligaments on your body start to give out when pulled on…