Dune: Part Two (2023)

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rhinohelix

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I was going to say I can't blame vilenuevue because he made a beautiful film. But he is credited as a screenwriter too, plus he probably cast zendeya so he can fuck right off.

I do not regret seeing it in the theater though. It really was a pretty epic visual masterpiece even with an ass storyline and ugly girlfriend.
That's heartbreaking, particularly again in light of the promise of Dune Part One. I now also question the splitting of the film in two parts, especially with their complete narrative bifurcation. You hardly need to see the first one at all with how little its referenced. I mean, LOTR felt like one story as it covers the quest to destroy the One Ring, and the way this is told it feels like two different books, very distinct to me.

You are absolutely right though about the film being beautiful. Villeneuve is so gifted in that regard, he just needs to make sure no one ever lets him near a story again after this and BR 2049. He's like Joseph Kosinski, another director who makes absolutely beautiful films but until Top Gun Maverick couldn't seem to get anything off the ground.
 

Palum

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So after hearing about the mutilation of Chani's characterization, seeing clips of it, reading about the "Fundamentalists in the South" (All white btw) and having noped out of the movie once before after 5 min when I saw the other Fremen in the movie LAUGH at Stilgar's faith in Lisan-al-Gaib, I finally decided to go all in a bad day and bear down and watch this.

TLDR: This isn't a good review but more a collection of bitches.

Good grief what a wasted opportunity for a great movie, instead its an OK movie by a director with Amazing! talent who's narratives often seem to fall short of his visual abilities. The movie looks amazing but is a terrible adaption of the book/story.

Low expectations met.
-After a great Part One, almost every scene with Chani was ruined for me. Zendaya is a fine actress (I guess) but her constant scowling and skepticism make literally 80% of her scenes, particularly with her gayish Jewish gal pal, unwatchable. They should have just named her "Kareni" "Libral al Bitchi" meaning "I want to speak to the planet manager". I assume the over time Chani gal pal hating him less was supposed to give some arc to Paul's acceptance into the Fremen but did they? I mean they finally gave him a name but was he *really* a part? Did he think of himself as a Fremen? More on this later. They finally made her a little likable then they killed her to give more screen time to Feyd. Edit: This woman would have made a better Chani.

-Paul's constant I am not the Madhi shtick. Look: Peter Jackson's writing some humility into Aragorn worked because he is insanely competent every time he is on the screen, and Viggo has the gravitas/mileage to carry it and make his reluctance look like well-earned self-doubt. I love Timothee Chalamet; he is an insanely good actor but can't make the first act hesitation look like anything but cuck bitchiness. He is a great Kwitsatch Hadaerack in act 3, though. I think the writing fails everyone here; while the script has an arc showing his growth with the Fremen, it leaves out his becoming Fremen, both them adopting him and he adopting them, which was a huge part of the book. His encounter with the Emperor, which in the book and especially in the Lynch version feels like this great payoff, feels rushed and strangely unsatisfying.

- Paul goes native, and to write him as using them misses a huge point of the novel. There a few lines that pay lip service to the concept of "today you become Fremen or you die" when he learns to ride the worm but I can't think of another time where its mentioned; the rest of the time he speaks as an outsider. See Chani's whole fucking character. It's more "Modern Audience" Political BS seeping into the movie, why we can't have nice things, etc. And Despite training for years and proving himself multiple times in combat already, he has to have his mother save him early on, and well as Chani. Did the audience forget the first movie already FFS? He doesn't need GrrrlPwer, he's literally the Chosen One they spent 90 generations trying to make and then planting the seeds for which on the planet. The Lisan-al-Giab can't be a native-born Fremen, it's literally "the voice from the outer world"; all of Chani's liberal arts college bullshit is just grating. Why didn't Paul just say "We aren't Colonizers!!" Wait, he didn't say that, did he? So much early stupid dialogue I may have blocked it out.

-"We will be Harkonnen"- What a fucking let down. Great, its revealed in later books that Paul is part Harkonnen, part of the Bene Gesserit breeding program, so lets spoil that here for what? Nothing. Paul does nothing different than he would otherwise. It feels like a "Let's be bad guys" moment but for what purpose; other than more future sullying up Paul.
-Paul never gets a tan while living in the desert; his skin color never changes. I mean, Harkonnen's are Black Sun Vampires I guess but they don't live in the deep Desert.

-The art direction and the direction overall in this are first class. Dennis V isn't a great narrative person, see this movie and BladeRunner 2049 but he can sure as fuck make beautiful movies.

-Fuck all the time spent on Giedi Prime. Who cares? Feyd is another Harkonnen Psycho but more of a threat than Rabban, Waaaay too much screen time, although Austin Ekler(sp) does a great job in the role, Lispy pale people don't scare me, Thanks Tika Wahtiti.

-After the initial meeting, they more or less ruined the reunion with Gurney and by they I mean Chani.
-The slapstick argument about the family atomics. Just WTF. Making Stilgar a dick for almost no reason. See also the trapdoor spider/Jinn comments: "DUNE MOVIE IS CULTURALLY AWARE LIBERAL WHITE PEOPLE DONT GET MAD".

I could do this seemingly all day but its just an endless supply of bad decisions, where Part One felt good in the decisions they made with a few exceptions (cough/Kynes/jamis);
-Speaking of Jamis, WTF with this dead made-up black guy? Why are we still talking about and to him near the end of the movie?

Villaneue still has a great eye and art direction, some scenes were great but this one fell so short of expectations after the get setup from the first. It's just a collection of little things that didn't need to be there, pulling elements in from future stories and outside commentary to make Dune something it isn't on the page. "IT'S A CAUTIONARY TALE; PAUL ISN'T A HERO", well maybe that was Herbert's intention but he didn't put it in the first book.

It's like, hold on, Woke Execs, with Part One we are going to stay close, we are really going to fuck it up with Part Two. Stay excited! So now they are making a third movie. The Bad news is you have to like and care about Chani for that to mean anything, no one knows Alia at this point because you didn't really introduce her, you already scuffed and bitched up Paul making his sacrifice at the end seem less so. Who the fuck knows what they are going to do with the story.

Sad.
Well like I said about the first one, it was a 7-8/10 sci fi movie, or a 3-4/10 Dune movie. So it's not really a surprise that the sequel would disappoint. Chani is so obvious just from the promos that came out.
 
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rhinohelix

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Well like I said about the first one, it was a 7-8/10 sci fi movie, or a 3-4/10 Dune movie. So it's not really a surprise that the sequel would disappoint. Chani is so obvious just from the promos that came out.
I would rank the first one a smidge higher as a Sci-Fi movie and well higher as a Dune movie, and this one a smidge lower as a Sci-Fi movie and the same as a Dune movie. Part One: 8 as a regular movie and 8 as a Dune movie and Part 2, 6ish-7 as a regular movie and 3 as Dune movie.

I don't remember them taking nearly as many liberties with the story in Part One as they did with Part Two; I don't care if you do things differently from the Lynch Movie or the Sci-Fi Mini series? but for the most part klaxons go off when you change stuff from the book. And don't get me wrong, changes from the book can be ok and sometimes even needed/awesome. Not too many people get their tits up about ALL the changes to LOTR movies vs books (I know I know, there are purists but scouring after 5 other endings? And Tom breaks the narrative flow in a way that's inexcusable in a movie that is easily glossed over in a book, so spare me) but there were a bunch that don't get mentioned; they don't get mentioned because even when they change something, the spirit of the Tolkien shines forth in those adaptations. I don't get that here, the spirit of Herbert, at all. Maybe that's just me but it feels like the changes don't serve the story but serve the ideological considerations of the Studio/writers/the audience.
 
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Bald Brah

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Well Jackson didn't make any changes to appease 'modern audiences' like villeneuve does.
 
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nu_11

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"Paul studied Idaho, marking the feline movements, the swiftness of reflex that made him such a difficult weapons teacher to emulate. Idaho's dark round face turned toward Paul, the cave-sitter eyes giving no hint of recognition, but Paul recognized the mask of serenity over excitement."

Definitely sounds like Jason Mamoa! :emoji_smirk:
 
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zzeris

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Well Jackson didn't make any changes to appease 'modern audiences' like villeneuve does.

Beyond this though. It amazes me how people never seem to figure out modern Hollywood. Villeneuve makes beautiful movies. That's it. That doesn't mean he'll keep your stories. That doesn't mean he doesn't want to change things to be HIS. He didn't have to fuck this movie over. He showed that he can follow the general ideas of Herbert in the first movie. He just needed all of us to help fund Part 2 until he could make the movie he wanted to make. Just like Todd Phillips didn't have to butcher Joker 2. They wanted to. The writing on the wall was making Chani into a unattractive troll when Jenna Ortega is there competing! Seeing the trailer and she's armored up killing shit and a big part of the trailer. She's the side piece outside of the relationship. It's his story. Why is she a big part oif the trailer? Interviews saying how much she'll be a big part of the movie is another warning. His story!!! We never seem to learn basic things.

I didn't watch this abomination. I knew he couldn't help fucking over one of the greatest fiction books ever made. Its' what they do. Just like many here will watch his next movie because they're PRETTY!! Sad honestly. Here's some Ortega pics for the good Dr.

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OIP.rnfd6acNxHAx2FtNf2kYbwHaLH
 
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Big Phoenix

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Part 2 is great. Deal with it.
Nah. Good looking well shot movie, but the story is pretty dumb. Chani's character is pants on head retarded making absolutely zero sense and ends up being a major drag on the movie.
 
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rhinohelix

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Nah. Good looking well shot movie, but the story is pretty dumb. Chani's character is pants on head retarded making absolutely zero sense and ends up being a major drag on the movie.
If you have only seen the Dune Part 1 movie, if that's the only Paul/Chani/Stilgar you know, it's not bad.

If you come in thinking Paul from part one is going to be Paul from the novel until super late in the movie, its a rough ride. If you were expecting the Fremen to be one way and then have them laugh at Stilgar in the first few minutes, if you were expecting a book-accurate Chani and got whatever that is in Part two, if you were wondering where this stupid fucking split came in the Northern/Southern Fremen ("The Fremen from the South are more Fundamentalist"; was that supposed to be a US geographical reference? I just thought about that, It never dawned on me; I didn't think about it until just now) then your comments are spot on.

Between this movie and the last 30-45 min of BR2049, I am 'Son I am Disappoint' in Denis as a writer/storyteller.
 
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Sterling

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Part 1 was much better than Part 2. I don't think Part 2 is a bad movie, but it deviates too much to be an actual Dune movie.
 
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Breakdown

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If you have only seen the Dune Part 1 movie, if that's the only Paul/Chani/Stilgar you know, it's not bad.

If you come in thinking Paul from part one is going to be Paul from the novel until super late in the movie, its a rough ride. If you were expecting the Fremen to be one way and then have them laugh at Stilgar in the first few minutes, if you were expecting a book-accurate Chani and got whatever that is in Part two, if you were wondering where this stupid fucking split came in the Northern/Southern Fremen ("The Fremen from the South are more Fundamentalist"; was that supposed to be a US geographical reference? I just thought about that, It never dawned on me; I didn't think about it until just now) then your comments are spot on.

Between this movie and the last 30-45 min of BR2049, I am 'Son I am Disappoint' in Denis as a writer/storyteller.

Does anyone listen to movies anymore? Or just shit post.

the “southern” fremen are more isolated, don’t interact with the outside world, and live in the harshest parts of the world. They are more insulated into the religion.

the northern tribes interact more with the outside world and aren’t as fanatical on their faith in the outworlder savior:

not the best story, but makes sense: it’s not a reference to the US, you are just a fucking fsggot who is looking to get angry.
 
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Breakdown

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It’s almost like there is a whole plot arc in the films where the Harkonnens avoid whole parts of the planet because of the conditions and that’s where the fremen live and that oversight explains why there are so many they didn’t account for.

it’s almost like none of you watch or listen to the movies on your screens.

it’s almost like all you guys do is read this thread and the movie spoiler recaps
 
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amigo

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I watched both movies once and have no desire to watch them ever again (I'll just keep rewatching Lynch's extended edition). That bitch is so bad, annoying, and/or out of context it singlehandedly destroys every movie she's in. RIP Nolan?
 
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Bald Brah

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I watched both movies once and have no desire to watch them ever again (I'll just keep rewatching Lynch's extended edition). That bitch is so bad, annoying, and/or out of context it singlehandedly destroys every movie she's in. RIP Nolan?

Nolan had a stinker with Tenet too but he recovered. Certainly a terrible pick for his main actor had everything to do with it bombing.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Part 1 was much better than Part 2. I don't think Part 2 is a bad movie, but it deviates too much to be an actual Dune movie.
Edit: amigo amigo knows the score

I agree with you that part one was better than the second, but even then I don't think it was an amazing film. It suffers from the same thing that I criticized the second film about, It just felt hollow.

As we've all stated ad nauseam it looks amazing, just the sheer spectacle is the entertaining to a degree. Maybe at least for me I have a certain bar set with how I expect the characters to act based upon all of the other iterations and the novels, and all the characters were all just so sterile, other than Jason Momoa, which just doesn't make any sense. I didn't care what happened to anybody, but at least with him, you had a little bit of emotional investment there.

He was easily the the best acting character in the first film because he actually felt human, while everybody else is just there giving a dower face and running through lines.

I go back and rewatch the Lynch version on occasions, and also the Sci-Fi miniseries. Neither of these films are something I am excited to go back and revisit if I'm in the mood for Dune. I guess if the third movie is coming out I'll probably rewatch the first two, but that'll be two viewings maybe, where as I watched the other ones countless times, and always enjoy them.

Hey that's just me, and if you enjoyed it more power to ya, I just don't think it's the most amazing thing since sliced bread.
 
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Bandwagon

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As we've all stated ad nauseam it looks amazing, just the sheer spectacle is the entertaining to a degree. Maybe at least for me I have a certain bar set with how I expect the characters to act based upon all of the other iterations and the novels, and all the characters were all just so sterile, other than Jason Momoa, which just doesn't make any sense. I didn't care what happened to anybody, but at least with him, you had a little bit of emotional investment there.
Momoa is my least favorite actor in the movies. It sounds like you just don't like Denis movies. All his characters tend to be very muted and mundane. That's why I like his movies so much. They feel more grounded.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Momoa is my least favorite actor in the movies. It sounds like you just don't like Denis movies. All his characters tend to be very muted and mundane. That's why I like his movies so much. They feel more grounded.
No, I like his films alot. Sicario is probably my favorite, but I enjoyed the blade runner movie. The stuff he's done with Jake Gyllenhaal is great.

He's a great director I just think he didn't do a wonderful job with Dune. Again, it might be that I've got certain expectations based on the previous cinematic renditions, and I watch those movies so many times, where that's what I expect the characters to be like, even though there's a difference between the Lynch and the miniseries, but both of those are memorable, and I can remember certain scenes, specifically with a Lynch version.

Hell that movie has so many great moments, I've got a couple of buddies that he and I will and quote stuff from the film just because it's so awesome, and hilarious.

Understand what you're trying to say though, but he can get good performances out of people, I maybe that's also part of it where I'm expecting his actors to show a little bit more emotion, and like I said before, be human vs just punching the time clock on set.

Visually it's still his most amazing film, but all of the characters were just giving a muted performance, other than Momoa.