Dune: Part Two (2023)

Breakdown said:

Does anyone listen to movies anymore? Or just shit post.

the “southern” fremen are more isolated, don’t interact with the outside world, and live in the harshest parts of the world. They are more insulated into the religion.

the northern tribes interact more with the outside world and aren’t as fanatical on their faith in the outworlder savior:

not the best story, but makes sense: it’s not a reference to the US, you are just a fucking fsggot who is looking to get angry.

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This was really dumb for two reasons.

1) No way in hell a group of devout zealots would allow nonbelievers(chani) into their social club. Nonbelievers would be viewed as heretics that would be purged or forced to convert. Its just very bad writing to think Chani would be allowed to run around running her girlboss mouth openly critisizing Stilgar.

2) Chani essentially views Paul as the harbinger of the apocalypse, why the hell would she ever fall for him? Paul just shows up, representing everything she hates yet somehow she still falls for him after he doesnt do much of anything? Again, very bad writing.

Breakdown said:

It’s almost like there is a whole plot arc in the films where the Harkonnens avoid whole parts of the planet because of the conditions and that’s where the fremen live and that oversight explains why there are so many they didn’t account for.

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Which is also dumb. The Fremen bribing the guild to not facilitate travel outside of the north was a much better explanation than "well we didnt think anyone lived there".

Breakdown said:

Does anyone listen to movies anymore? Or just shit post.

the “southern” fremen are more isolated, don’t interact with the outside world, and live in the harshest parts of the world. They are more insulated into the religion.

the northern tribes interact more with the outside world and aren’t as fanatical on their faith in the outworlder savior:

not the best story, but makes sense: it’s not a reference to the US, you are just a fucking fsggot who is looking to get angry.

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LOL, I know the explanation in the movie, idiot. Considering its a whole ass invention created for the movie, why did they place those particular regions with those particular viewpoints? I said IN THE POST that I had never considered it until I wrote the post but its an interesting point, at least to me.

I don't "want to get angry", you insufferable twat. I wanted to love the movie but instead they made some middling shit that's untrue to the source material. They added their own spin in order to get to a place that this book doesn't go, that Herbert potentially wanted to go but didn't end up putting on the page, and then later wrote other books making his point more clearly. They also made a bunch of changes to the story wholly unnecessary to telling it but aligned with their values, i.e. Paul actively starting the Jihad, the Landsraad rejecting him as Emperor, etc.

This is the same kind of cuck argumentation around "Why do you care what race <x> character is? It doesn't matter!!11!" If it didn't matter why change it? Stop simping for multibillion dollar corps who don't give a shit about you.

Barellron said:

Hmm..

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Was there something about the story’s original half that required someone over 16 and really ugly? Have you read the book? What age was Paul during this?

Bald Brah said:

Nolan had a stinker with Tenet too but he recovered. Certainly a terrible pick for his main actor had everything to do with it bombing.

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I am one of the few who didn't mind/liked Tenet but I will certainly admit that Nolan outNolaned himself; He said, "Whats the most complex Nolan story I can tell, then let's mix the dialogue down in such a way no one can understand the Nolan explanations we are giving for the Nolanscapades". Movies about Time Travel in general are difficult to tell well(I mostly find them extremely wanting) My reaction is also probably predicated I saw it on one of the few screens that had a working 5.1 mix so I could understand all the dialogue. I honestly can't say whether Washington did a bad job or not; he wasn't exactly given 'Schindler's List' to work with there; he seemed fine to me in the moment.

You are absolutely correct, though, that Nolan hasn't made similar mistakes in his latest efforts. I think its great that those visionaries swing for the fences occasionally. When they miss it sucks but when they hit, amazing. Without 'Tenet's, we wouldn't have 'Memento's, 'Inception's or 'Interstellar's.

Nolan and his brother are far better storycrafters/writers than Villeneuve, who to his credit is one of the best visual directors of last two decades.

Edit: The thing that always breaks me about time travel stories that no one (or very few) ever consider is that the Earth isn't stationary; in addition to moving in the 4th/temporal dimension, you are also going to have to move to a different place in the 3rd dimension as well, or you will be in the correct place temporally floating in the empty void as Earth has changed position around the Sun and the Sun has moved in galactically in the Milky Way. I guess every time travel story bakes that in? Unless you are just moving your consciousness to a different point in your own timeline, you are literally moment to moment racing through the cosmos at thousands of miles per hour. Fuck Time Travel stories in particular.

Edit 2: This is what makes the "time travel" portion of Interstellar so great; nothing is moving in time but forces acting in a different time at a known location, which in theory known by the 5th dimensional beings acting throughout the storyline. Also, if you haven't ever read the original script for Interstellar by Jonathan Nolan, with the Chinese Moonbase and the alien life form the US astronauts bring to Earth to "save" it while humanity leaves, search it down on the Internet and give it a read. It's an amazing insight into what could have been, a completely different movie with an entirely different focus so you can see what Chris brings to the table. It would have been potentially been a great watch in its own right.

Burns said:

Wat? Why do they need navigators to calculate a simple fucking orbit of a planet? The Dune universe doesn't have satellites or does each one need it's own navigator to navigate the "warp" around the planet?

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That's what the Fremen were bribing the Spacing Guild with raw spice for: To keep the southern skies/poles clear of satellites and traffic such their activities in terraforming the planet and their numbers remained a secret. While there was talk of smugglers, etc in Frank Herbert's Dune, I don't recall any mention of rogue satellites; I assume that the Spacing Guild would have taken them down, given they were being bribed. The Spacing Guild says "We don't do this/don't do this" it's pretty much economic and actual suicide in the Imperium to challenge them. They are the ones who lowered rates to bring all the Great Houses to the final battle in Dune: The Novel.

Edit: You need Navigators to presciently see the future to avoid danger and fold space to allow for interstellar travel. You might be able to get by with a Mentant for planetary orbit but I don't recall much mention of normal "space travel" in the Frank Herbert books. I have been revisiting the books; I used to recall/think that I stopped at God Emperor but I was reading them as were published as a kid and when Heretics was released, I WTF'ed out.

Burns said:

So no one would be suspicious of the Spacing Guild working with the Freemen when the Emperor and Harkonnen have to take their space ships directly to geo-sync orbit in order to not orbit over the rest of the planet? They all have advanced technology and seem to build their own ships. They should be able to manage a ship that any simpleton can put into orbit.


The Spacing Guild secretly protecting the Freemen seems almost as dumb as the weather in the south is so bad we can see shit boss.

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All the Spacing Guild cared about is the flow of the Spice; when the Fremen were paying with raw Spice directly and sabotaging the Harkonnen spice mining efforts, you bet your ass the Spacing Guild was dancing to that tune.

"You mean Congresspeople have agendas based on who gives them money?" <shocked face>

The guy you are wanting to argue with, however, Frank Herbert, is long dead. That's what he wrote so that's what it is.

If you think that's bad, though, wait until you get toward the end of the Dune saga and see how stupid some shit gets, or at the very end, which admittedly I haven't actually read the novels themselves but of which I have read summaries. You'll think unanswered questions about spaceships and satellites are the least of your concerns.

Fake Edit: After reading what the Internet thinks of your point, its discussed in a number of other places that the Spacing Guild (presumably due to the Massive bribe being paid by the Fremen) charge a prohibitive amount for satellites above Arrakis; they would never admit to it, as pointed out in these discussions, because they would then have to disclose how much the Guild depends on the spice melange and from where they are getting all this non-CHOAM raw spice. Halleck even mentions your particular point about tasking a Frigate, the supposedly largest ship for a long time in the Dune universe (up until Chapterhouse, as I have read) that could take off and land on a planet in one piece. Space combat until the Guild monopoly is broken (among many things) in Chapterhouse, after which Great Houses start building battleships again, I think is how it was stated.

“Arrakis has special problems, costs are higher, and there’d be maintenance and the like. The Guild wants a dreadful high price for satellite control and your father’s House isn’t one of the big rich ones, lad. You know that.”
Halleck said: "Wouldn't it be cheaper to reopen negotiations with the Guild for permission to orbit a frigate as a weather satellite?"
"We know the Guild wants a prohibitive price for weather satellites

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The spice bribe to the Guild for preventing weather satellites and other watchers in the skies of Arrakis already had reached major proportions.

She weighed out her words, remembering that Paul had said this must be the reason Arrakeen skies were clear of satellites. "And what is it you do to the face of Arrakis that must not be seen?"

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Burns said:

Sure, but Big Phoenix was proposing that keeping it as it was written was somehow not a stupid reason why the Freemen were "safe" in the south (in contrast to what they changed it too). They are both different degrees of dumb.

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It's not "dumb"; its perfectly understandable in the context of the book: The Fremen pay the Spacing Guild to keep the skies free of Satellites. Not because "We didn't think anyone lived there" but because they couldn't know because the Spacing Guild came up with reasons to keep the skies cleared because they were bribed. The Fremen live in the harshest conditions on the shittiest planet in the Imperium. It's DV shortcut mumbo-jumbo to not have to mention the Guild again as to why the Harkonnen aren't looking for anything there.

Yet DV had plenty of time to show us Black White Harkonnen world and have Fenring "secure the bloodline" but felt the need to make other changes such as this.

Burns said:

You think that the screen time and money spent on Giedi Prime would be similar to setting up a confusing omni-powerful spacing guild to where a no-fly zone over southern Arrakis would have not been dumb?

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Gotta remember dune was written in a time when satellites where a very rare thing. Much of the tech and logistics of Dune don't make a lot of sense but theyre only there to advance the plot.

It's more the fact "we didn't think anyone lived there" is the best they could do showing how subpar their writing was. They really couldn't have come up with a better explanation? With that just sticking with the guild interfering is a much better reason.

Burns said:

You think that the screen time and money spent on Giedi Prime would be similar to setting up a confusing omni-powerful spacing guild to where a no-fly zone over southern Arrakis would have not been dumb?

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You're just trolling me now, Burns. You can't be strawmaning this bad or actually be this dumb.



Hint: They already set up the "Confusing omni-powerful spacing guild" in the first movie. The power of the Spacing Guild is a huge, undeniable part of the fabric of the Dune Universe. You know, Dune PART1? Die on this hill if you want, though.