Dune: Part Two (2023)

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Dr.Retarded

Dr.Retarded

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Kementari said:
Coming from someone whose 2nd favorite all time book is Dune, second only to Shogun, these movies were fucking terrible. I am also not a book purist; medium changes also necessitate some changes. However, if you are going to adapt an IP, especially one has regarded as Herbert's, at least attempt to convey what the creator is trying to get across, not update it for the "modern audience". DV missed nearly everything Herbert's Dune is about. Yes, they were amazing to look at, experience in a theater, but are ultimately hollow, steaming piles of shit. Write your own if you feel the need to spread your message, don't desecrate existing IP's. But then again, I guess that's par for the course these days.

TLDR - fuck off hollywood
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Amen...

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Burns

Burns

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rhinohelix said:
Burns, I assume you mean well but this is the very definition of headcannon. You are making assumptions for the general audience, and of things which are never stated in the movie. It doesn't matter why there are no satellites over Arrakis. The only thing that matters is there are none, and that never changes. My money is that this will be a plot point in the next movie and they will explain the Baron's statement in the context of the books.

Or they could make Chani a Guild Navigator and head of CHOAM, FFS. Who knows?
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Audience interpretation is the basis of my argument on why the Frank version would be just as dumb in the scene, if everything else was the same. That was an example of audience interpretation, since the audience has no basis of understanding the Spacing Guild w/o prior outside source knowledge or that they are the cause. The Baron saying there are no sats in orbit at the exact moment he plans to kill the Duke does nothing to change that "we were unable to see the sand people because the Spacing Guild has a no fly zone over the planet unless they approve" would make little sense in a movie where the Spacing Guild is hardly mentioned and would possibly confuse the audience more than some other dumb line.

I knew about the Spacing Guild from the Lynch movie and I was still unable to pick up that they were even physically in the first movie until I read it here.
 
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Dr.Retarded

Dr.Retarded

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Burns said:
Audience interpretation is the basis of my argument on why the Frank version would be just as dumb in the scene, if everything else was the same. That was an example of audience interpretation, since the audience has no basis of understanding the Spacing Guild w/o prior outside source knowledge or that they are the cause. The Baron saying there are no sats in orbit at the exact moment he plans to kill the Duke does nothing to change that "we were unable to see the sand people because the Spacing Guild has a no fly zone over the planet unless they approve" would make little sense in a movie where the Spacing Guild is hardly mentioned and would possibly confuse the audience more than some other dumb line.

I knew about the Spacing Guild from the Lynch movie and I was still unable to pick up that they were even physically in the first movie until I read it here.
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I think the only scene where there's the spacing guild in the first movie was present was when they showed up on the Atreides homeworld, but it also could have been the emperors envoys. I just assumed that they were they some of the fancy costume people, and I'm basing that off of every other cinematic iteration of the film.
 
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L

Lenardo

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Easiest interpretation on the satellite thing,.

They are there..just reporting FAKE data, if the data presented reports what everyone says is there(or not there) why question the data? Everyone says noone lives there too many storms/inhospitable and the weather satellites are reporting lots of storms/inhospitable conditions...confirmation bias, we all see what we want to see..

Take the bias against some beliefs of trump..even when presented the truth of what his positions are, what he actually said..for weeks and weeks the opposite of what his position on or what he said was mass produced to the masses, now most people believe the lie. Same thing. Repeat a lie often enough, it becomes "the truth"
 
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rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Burns said:
Audience interpretation is the basis of my argument on why the Frank version would be just as dumb in the scene, if everything else was the same. That was an example of audience interpretation, since the audience has no basis of understanding the Spacing Guild w/o prior outside source knowledge or that they are the cause. The Baron saying there are no sats in orbit at the exact moment he plans to kill the Duke does nothing to change that "we were unable to see the sand people because the Spacing Guild has a no fly zone over the planet unless they approve" would make little sense in a movie where the Spacing Guild is hardly mentioned and would possibly confuse the audience more than some other dumb line.

I knew about the Spacing Guild from the Lynch movie and I was still unable to pick up that they were even physically in the first movie until I read it here.
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Dune Part One spends a few minutes talking about who the Spacing Guild is and what the spice means to the Imperium and interstellar travel, etc. at 00:06:40ish. The Herald of the Change arrives, along with members of the Imperial Court, representatives of the Spacing Guild, and a Bene Gesserit. Thufir calculates the cost, et al. You just don't remember.

Again, this discussion is moot since the Baron says there are no satellites over Arrakis. He doesn't say temporarily or for the attack there will be; its a definite statement: "There are no satellites over Arrakis". HOW/WHY is more headcannon speculation on your part but from just the movie, it's not worthwhile to discuss any longer.

Dr.Retarded said:
I think the only scene where there's the spacing guild in the first movie was present was when they showed up on the Atreides homeworld, but it also could have been the emperors envoys. I just assumed that they were they some of the fancy costume people, and I'm basing that off of every other cinematic iteration of the film.
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They specifically call them out as being there, you remember correctly. They are mentioned a few other times in the movies but DV does indeed minimize their role. For instance, The Great Houses; warships show up at the battle with the Emperor, because the Baron has sent out a call to the Great Houses saying he is under attack by Saudukar legions. What's not mentioned in the movie is the Spacing Guild vastly drops their rates so the Great Houses can bring their armadas and armies to Arrakis to fight Paul and prevent him from destroying the Spice fields.

Lenardo said:
Easiest interpretation on the satellite thing,.

They are there..just reporting FAKE data, if the data presented reports what everyone says is there(or not there) why question the data? Everyone says noone lives there too many storms/inhospitable and the weather satellites are reporting lots of storms/inhospitable conditions...confirmation bias, we all see what we want to see..

Take the bias against some beliefs of trump..even when presented the truth of what his positions are, what he actually said..for weeks and weeks the opposite of what his position on or what he said was mass produced to the masses, now most people believe the lie. Same thing. Repeat a lie often enough, it becomes "the truth"
Click to expand...

I appreciate you joining the discussion, Lenardo, but the Baron expressly says there are no satellites above Arrakis at the time stamp in Dune Part One marked above. He doesn't give a reason, though, while we know from the books why, in the movies the reason is not given and since DV changed so much in Part Two, not so much in Part One, one can only hope he tells as a future plot point in the next movie or rather hopefully doesn't, in that I don't see how they redeem themselves after all the changes of Part Two. Just kidding, with the Stupid Pen he can write himself out of anything (just not very well and not back into Dune cannon)!
 
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Dr.Retarded

Dr.Retarded

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rhinohelix said:
Dune Part One spends a few minutes talking about who the Spacing Guild is and what the spice means to the Imperium and interstellar travel, etc. at 00:06:40ish. The Herald of the Change arrives, along with members of the Imperial Court, representatives of the Spacing Guild, and a Bene Gesserit. Thufir calculates the cost, et al. You just don't remember.

Again, this discussion is moot since the Baron says there are no satellites over Arrakis. He doesn't say temporarily or for the attack there will be; its a definite statement: "There are no satellites over Arrakis". HOW/WHY is more headcannon speculation on your part but from just the movie, it's not worthwhile to discuss any longer.



They specifically call them out as being there, you remember correctly. They are mentioned a few other times in the movies but DV does indeed minimize their role. For instance, The Great Houses; warships show up at the battle with the Emperor, because the Baron has sent out a call to the Great Houses saying he is under attack by Saudukar legions. What's not mentioned in the movie is the Spacing Guild vastly drops their rates so the Great Houses can bring their armadas and armies to Arrakis to fight Paul and prevent him from destroying the Spice fields.



I appreciate you joining the discussion, Lenardo, but the Baron expressly says there are no satellites above Arrakis at the time stamp in Dune Part One marked above. He doesn't give a reason, though, while we know from the books why, in the movies the reason is not given and since DV changed so much in Part Two, not so much in Part One, one can only hope he tells as a future plot point in the next movie or rather hopefully doesn't, in that I don't see how they redeem themselves after all the changes of Part Two. Just kidding, with the Stupid Pen he can write himself out of anything (just not very well and not back into Dune cannon)!
Click to expand...
David Lynch Sting GIF by Filmin
 
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