EQ Never

Miele

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
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Unless Storybricks is Skynet in disguise, it will certainly require a lot of work behind the scenes to figure out everything that is possibly going to happen. They made the example of the road where orc bandits want to pillage caravans, then caravans will hire more guards (players maybe), at one point a guard outpost can be built (even this by players), until orcs decide to move elsewhere. This is cool and certainly very interesting, but I doubt SB will be able to make orcs and crooked guards have a bromance instead of fighting each other, if players start flirting instead of fighting.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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Utnayan_sl said:
From the video shown, it doesn't look all that intense to use and formulate with even a small amount of developer experience. That was my point. So if the tool fails it's because it isn't finished when the game launches, or SOE is fairly inept when using the tool itself. Either way, when making MMORPG's I think you can agree when you add possible points of failure outside of your control, it usually spells terrible. Take a look at Hero Engine and other 3rd party engines used for today's MMORPG's when fixes and engine problems are out of the hands of the developers making the game. Now let's take that a step further and base the entire content / world content system on a tool outside of your control.

From what I saw though, the system itself for Storybricks doesn't look complex on paper or in the interface shown.
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From the example, sure it is not very complex. Now put that into WoW, give each npc with a name a distinct behaviour pattern and watch the world burn as the npcs start acting in unexpected ways. Which might be semi-intended for EQN anyway, but I guess my point is that the example has limited scope. In WoW terms, they are showing how an npc can give a bear ass quest, recognize when the player turns in the bear asses and then offer him a follow-up quest that wasnt there before. As worn-out as the quest gameplay is now, my example doesnt do it justice and neither does their presentation convey the scope of their system well.

Which ties into this:

Miele_sl said:
Unless Storybricks is Skynet in disguise, it will certainly require a lot of work behind the scenes to figure out everything that is possibly going to happen. They made the example of the road where orc bandits want to pillage caravans, then caravans will hire more guards (players maybe), at one point a guard outpost can be built (even this by players), until orcs decide to move elsewhere. This is cool and certainly very interesting, but I doubt SB will be able to make orcs and crooked guards have a bromance instead of fighting each other, if players start flirting instead of fighting.
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The depth they can add over time as they learn what their system really can do will be amazing. One thing is that the little details can make all the difference here. I'm not sure SOE are as good at embellishing their setting and atmosphere as Anet or Blizzard are. Then again I havent played an SOE rpg for a decade, so I'm hoping for the best.
 
F

Fingz_sl

shitlord
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I'm hoping for the best but I'm not going to be all that surprised if there are glitches and players find a way to exploit things.
 
M

Mur_sl

shitlord
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Fingz_sl said:
I'm hoping for the best but I'm not going to be all that surprised if there are glitches and players find a way to exploit things.
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Vitality

Vitality

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Fingz_sl said:
I'm hoping for the best but I'm not going to be all that surprised if there are glitches and players find a way to exploit things.
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Like assembling and disassembling a guard post to reset dynamic cycles in mob spawns? Better believe I'll find something like this to gain an edge.

Did it in ff14 with fate cycling and infinite fate phase grinding to power level sub classes.

Dit it in Rift with AE grinding without completing obectives for planarite.

Did it in Warhammer with PQ triggers.

Did it in Neverwinter with player gen content.

The list goes on.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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This is an interesting article. And some things about it caught my eye.

Hearthstone dev invents stories that tell themselves | Polygon

The result, they tell us, could bringemergent narratives to games at a fraction of the costrequired to make the next Walking Dead release.
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Obviously that is why publishers will be interested in it. But a comment in the comments section says it best as far as I am concerned. And leaves a lot to be answered.

The only question now that I would have for these developers is how they integrate narrativecomplexity and depth into this structure. Procedurality has existed for some time now, the issue is being able to use it to form an actually compelling narrative.
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So when looking at those two quotes/comments above, it matches my opinion that storybricks will allow for a lot of filler until the answer for the last comment comes to light. I think a system like this could work very well. Unfortunately it is coupled with a very unstable (ethically) gaming industry andespeciallythe MMORPG portion of it. I would like to think that narrative will be complex and can form true ground breaking immersive stories in the game, but my biggest fear, and what I think will be the likely outcome, is using Storybricks for a ton of side quest filler crap no one cares about that doesn't have any bearing on the 10% of hand written content in the game, while using the tool solely as a cost cutting measure to increase profitability.

Again, great for the companies to increase their profits, with a lackluster and underwhelming experience for the gamer playing it. IE: Lots of fluff/randomly generated content because it is cheap to do and fills out an entire world.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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We're assuming that EQN's implementation of storybricks is meant to create a narrative at all. They've said on multiple occasions that important structured storytelling would be delivered through controlled instancing.

I wouldnt be surprised if storybricks was just used to determine spawn/behaviour patterns in NPCs non-essential to the overarching story, and that there will be specific NPCs/areas designed for advancing plot.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Look, at least they are trying something new here. It might fall flat on its ass, or it might be the next "EQ"
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, but at least it will be something new among the sea of theme parks with the same rides that have been sprouting up around us for the last 10 yrs. and that, my friends, deserves some credit.
 
M

Mur_sl

shitlord
234
0
So enough worrying about Storybricks, lets talk about MOBA style combat, (Ponytail tweet), and combat telegraphs. I am expecting to be horribly disappointed with EQNs combat. I'm sick of the fast paced action shit we've been getting, where I just spam attacks, and dodge the red cone with all the other nameless zergs in my group. I don't think I have actually socialized once in the last year in a group, because it's so damn frenetic.
 
Lleauaric

Lleauaric

Sparkletot Monger
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Well, what we know is that attacks will not be tab target based. If you swing at something in your range, you can hit it. We know the AI will change mobs behavior based on what you do to it. Its been alluded to that combat is another type of "conversation", so the talk about Storybricks may not be entirely irrelevant to combat.

We know you will have 8 possible combinations of abilities on (I assume) a hotbar. They are dictated by your class choices and equipped weapon.

Because of these factors I imagine that they will have to design a combat system with longer fights. Fewer encounters, longer fights. This gives the AI a chance to work/adapt, and it forces players to make strategic decisions before each combat. Communications in this system would therefore be key. I think that is what they are talking about when they say "MOBA style" in that it requires a great degree of coordination.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Well you could always dumb it down to the lowest denominator and build strawmans, but combat does not have to be twitchy in order to be fun.

Personally im too old for that shit and I dont want to have to buy 3 peripherals so I can spam buttons faster while running around in circles.
 
M

Mur_sl

shitlord
234
0
Wuyley_sl said:
As apposed to staring at HP/MP boxes and spamming your 1 DD spell?
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At least that doesn't cause my arthritis to flare up. Some of us are getting old...and cranky. I can only play games like Neverwinter for about 2 hours, and my hands are trashed. EQ I can still pull an 18 hour straight session with only one or two depends changes, and no hand pain.

Lleauaric_sl said:
Because of these factors I imagine that they will have to design a combat system with longer fights. Fewer encounters, longer fights. This gives the AI a chance to work/adapt, and it forces players to make strategic decisions before each combat. Communications in this system would therefore be key. I think that is what they are talking about when they say "MOBA style" in that it requires a great degree of coordination.
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See, now this I can get behind. If the combat returns to a slower pace,andmakes a group actually work as a team, I will be very happy. I might even get over my loathing for huge red cones telegraphing danger zones. I'd love to see actual animated telegraphs though.
 
F

Felmega_sl

shitlord
563
1
Mur_sl said:
At least that doesn't cause my arthritis to flare up. Some of us are getting old...and cranky. I can only play games like Neverwinter for about 2 hours, and my hands are trashed. EQ I can still pull an 18 hour straight session with only one or two depends changes, and no hand pain.



See, now this I can get behind. If the combat returns to a slower pace,andmakes a group actually work as a team, I will be very happy. I might even get over my loathing for huge red cones telegraphing danger zones. I'd love to see actual animated telegraphs though.
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I hear you on that.

In MMO's, I think the strategy of the choice of attack should be more important than the result of just spamming all your attacks in sequence.
 
Vitality

Vitality

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Mur_sl said:
At least that doesn't cause my arthritis to flare up. Some of us are getting old...and cranky. I can only play games like Neverwinter for about 2 hours, and my hands are trashed. EQ I can still pull an 18 hour straight session with only one or two depends changes, and no hand pain.



See, now this I can get behind. If the combat returns to a slower pace,andmakes a group actually work as a team, I will be very happy. I might even get over my loathing for huge red cones telegraphing danger zones. I'd love to see actual animated telegraphs though.
Click to expand...
rrr_img_72432.jpg
 
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