EQ Never

Rezz_sl said:

There's an easy solution go the optical shit of people having cooler gear they paid for vs. gear you raided/earned in the looks department. And that's putting a toggle under the graphics options that turns off player purchased items on all players/other players. If the option isn't enabled, you see them wearing some graphical model that is generic for the level range they are. Enabled for just you? The only visual shit you see is stuff you purchased or items earned in the game. Enabled across the board? You see all the pixels that everyone spent money on. There's no option to turn off earned gear, but there is one for purchased.

That way people who don't give any fucks about what other people look like? Can view all the silly shit people spend money on. And the people who do have many fucks to give about the way others look? Can avoid seeing all the sparkly shit.

Hell, put in multiple toggles so that you can see friends and guildmates in their silly shit if you want since they might feel hurt if you don't want to see their silly shit.

The deal isn't really removing the silly shit, but not forcing it upon others. Pretty simple solution, imo.

Something akin to the above would allow developers to still sell models/whatever, but players who don't want to deal with rainbow ponies and space pimp mobiles won't have to.

Click to expand...

Except if everybody turns it off, nobody is going to buy it. If a game is f2p and supported by things like appearance items, stfu and let people support the game

Ambiturner_sl said:

Except if everybody turns it off, nobody is going to buy it. If a game is f2p and supported by things like appearance items, stfu and let people support the game

Click to expand...

There's still a good deal of us who are not opposed toearningthe cool looking items and while I cannot speak for Rezz, it pisses me off that if I put in the time and effort to raid and am rewarded with a great looking new staff or BP, I wanna stab the fucker in the eye who races by me on a flaming horse who's idea of effort was going to the estore and putting in a credit card. Unfortunately, this is the reality today, so I have no choice but to put up with it, but I would check the "turn off purchased items" tab in my options menu if given the chance. There's room for both types of players here, relax.

I've always felt in situations like this that they should give two options in FTP games. One, a server for players who choose to use the "game store." Option two, for subscribers who want to earn everything. Keep it segregated. You can still have mixed servers. But give players a choice. I totally disagree with FTP games with cash shops. I have felt that way since I can even remember!

Or, like I said earlier, simply don't sell items that could qualify as in-game status symbols. I'm willing to bet the market for silly novelty hats and account services is sufficiently big that a developer can make a decent profit without dumping gear onto the marketplace that would otherwise be found by looting it off the corpse of a god.

^ That's a pretty cool idea.

Wishful thinking aside I doubt a company would make an extensive vanity item shop AND include the option to make others not see how many dollars of vanity you carry. So you're left with either a game without a cash shop (fat chance) or one where the devs implement it subtle enough to not piss on the die-hard cash shop haters too much. Management only sees how well the cash shop does financially, how flamboyant and 'in your face' the stuff is depends on the designers. Then again I'm not bothered by a cash shop that's "in addition" and not "instead of".

Without actual gear progression any old group/raid content item becomes obtainable by laypeople within a couple power increases (hell, mostly just one these days). Since there is not enough time or difficulty involved in acquiring desired pieces that means nothing is iconic. It's like the reverse of telling every kid they're special little snowflakes: Make nothing special and then they can sell whatever they want because it's just like everything else.

The systems are no longer Risk vs Reward they are Cash for Reward. Cheapen the gains from actually playing the game, jack up the gains from pumping in quarters and then cash out in time for the next iteration.

The only thing you can do at this point is 1. hope there isnt' a shop. 2. hope they don't put things for real money that impact the game. Thats really the only thing that matters, are these real money items going to change anything in the game then STOP!

I'd assume even if there's a sub that most newer games are going to have cash shop vanity shit. Really, I think most people just want themselves to look badass. I couldn't honestly care less what other people look like or do, and haven't since pre-kunark EQ. But cash shops are here to stay, and I'm more interested in modifying existing systems than simply hoping that the model goes away. There's always a few people on each server in each game that do the shit like standing on the mailbox in Org with their MC gear or hanging out at the zoneline to Thurgadin B with primals and shit. The people who purchase stuff really don't parade that around, so I don't really see that shit being something that a toggle would negate for the most part.

But, in the end, it is all a numbers game. Even with a toggle of some kind, people will still buy the vanity shit because why not? Even if others can't see it. Yeah it will consume developer time (well, mostly artist) to do that stuff, but the return is simply too great to not implement it. I just want to minimize the impact it has on people if they choose not to be a party to it.

Depending on the game and specific detail of the cash shop item you cannot make that a simple yes/no case though.

Take the endless pick in GW2. You could not obtain an endless pick in the game outside of the cash shop. The advantage it has over other picks is obviously that you dont need to replenish it. In GW2 you can buy every item in the cash shop with in-game gold though, so you dont need a credit card for that pick, you could use gold you earned from playing the game. And buying the pick with gold costs as much as regular picks for several years, so its only an actual gold advantage in a very long term view. The main advantage would be convenience of not running out of picks because you didnt pay attention to your supplies. Of course, you could also buy it for $10. Is that "things for real money that impact the game" in your opinion?

I would say that not having the item doesn't stop you from gathering resources, but having it means you simply don't have to keep track of how many picks you have. It's more of a convenience item than something that is required. You won't really progress through the game (or through crafting) faster than someone who doesn't buy the pick for the most part. The tiny portion of time saved by not having to scroll through merchant menus when you still have to go to them anyway isn't enough to really land it in the "impact" section.

It's not a vanity item but it is a convenience item. The yes/no case is entirely dependant upon it not having shit that really affects the game. I don't like XP potions or anything of that nature. Health potions and shit are fine, as long as they are also obtainable (realistically) in the game. Gear that simply looks different is fine. Gear that operates sufficiently differently to alter gameplay? Not ok. I don't mind if shops sell convenience, but I do mind when they start handing out advantages (real ones) for cash.

GW2 cash shop was better than most. That didn't save the game from lackluster development once it released with their skeleton krewe. Without enough actual resources to do much of anything it quickly stagnated. Which is more the bane of f2p games than anything else.

Kedwyn_sl said:

GW2 cash shop was better than most. That didn't save the game from lackluster development once it released with their skeleton krewe. Without enough actual resources to do much of anything it quickly stagnated. Which is more the bane of f2p games than anything else.

Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? GW2 is constantly adding new content every few weeks. There is a ton of it and it is free (assuming you bought the box). Much of it is in the form of temporary events but that still requires a lot of dev time. Especially since many of the temporary events have new dungeons, etc.

Now I don't play GW2 much, mainly because most of the new content is PvE and I would prefer a revamp to their WvW. But they sure as hell haven't stopped developing, nor are they on skeleton crews. That game made a ton of cash and they are still selling a lot of boxes. It has been a huge success for NCSoft.

Kedwyn_sl said:

GW2 cash shop was better than most. That didn't save the game from lackluster development once it released with their skeleton krewe. Without enough actual resources to do much of anything it quickly stagnated. Which is more the bane of f2p games than anything else.

Click to expand...

If you don't like the game fine. Just about everything in your post is just made up nonsense.

Grim1_sl said:

WTF are you talking about? GW2 is constantly adding new content every few weeks. There is a ton of it and it is free (assuming you bought the box). Much of it is in the form of temporary events but that still requires a lot of dev time. Especially since many of the temporary events have new dungeons, etc.

Now I don't play GW2 much, mainly because most of the new content is PvE and I would prefer a revamp to their WvW. But they sure as hell haven't stopped developing, nor are they on skeleton crews. That game made a ton of cash and they are still selling a lot of boxes. It has been a huge success for NCSoft.

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not getting why everyone keeps bashing this game, yes the WvW was pretty monotonous but the rate that they pump out quality content is fucking outstanding and what are they at 3 million box sales now? Shit son.

I do play GW2 (for PVE), and I'm mostly happy with it but really only because I casual it. They had monthly content additions each month since last october, that alone is a feat, but some like january could be covered in 15 minutes. I do feel like they are short on money and/or manpower and are making due, and if so kudos to them. But their updates could use a little more permanent meat.

Re: Rezz - that's kinda my point. For some the pick is pay-to-win, some arent bothered by it, for some its borderline. Everyone has their own logic on what is and isnt ok in a cash shop, so as long as you have the shop it'll be too much in the mind of some players... and I think we can all agree pretty much every game from here on out is going to have the shop. For me GW2's cash shop is a mixed bag because I find items like boxing gloves and hipster glasses retarded, but I'm sure some love it.

There were a few people involved with the testing of said content and got to see a ton of stuff that never saw live. Also the process and focus they were looking at. Mostly it was a cluster fuck.

I really didn't dig most of their "content". Mostly cute throw away shit while the games larger issues were left untouched.

If they had a bit more meat on the bones content people would probably still be playing and using their cash shop. I know they made mint selling boxes, I don't dispute that. My issue with these F2P games is the content generation is usually light. Gw2 was abundant but it was also very casual and not much substance. Which is why i generally dislike f2p or b2p. Cool for what they are but in the end not much substance. If it wasn't for WvW GW2 wouldn't of even been mediocre.

Now I'm one of those that felt GW2 PVE was gimmicky and mostly a waste of time. So I didn't really enjoy grinding fractals all that much and most of that content was actually previously shelved and reused. Which is fine but it worthy to note since things went down hill content wise IMO after that.

The holiday stuff, at least the good stuff like the Halloween event was great. I'll agree. I really don't remember the Christmas stuff. Was that the simon says game? Meh. Cute. I believe the Halloween content was already done and pre planned prior to release. Christmas was post release. Starting to see the difference now?

Their living story bull shit where portals pop up and mobs come out and sit around the portal was lame as hell. Poor mans rift event. Especially since most of the zones even on a top tier server were empty except for the 3 or 4 constant events everyone grinded to hit max level. We call that fun? Really?

The added PVP abilities were a massive grind for not much benefit. Really half assed it.Especially having played through the original planned PvP dungeon those abilities were just fucking amateur hour. Yes it was playable and it wasn't bad either.Some of the other scrapped ideas were amazing as well. All thrown on the shelf for safe and easy things, despite being almost done, because they didn't want to make any real changes to the game. Which is exactly what it needed.

Stopped playing in mid february when it was obvious the big issues were not getting addressed. Basically all of their "good" content was shelved / unused, pre release but quality and as time went on it went down hill.

Sad thing is there was some really good stuff that got shelved for complete amateur hour bull shit. If they had launched the PVP dungeon with some changes it would have been something worth coming back for. 5% guard damage reduction after grinding a month? Not so much.

Not sure why there is all this dancing about the cash shop going on, most if not all games just do this little dance to be creative while picking your pocket. Its like the Giant Elephant in the room! Why dont they just do the old school illegal coin exchange, but make it legal. Legal purchase and selling of coin. Limit what can be cashed out at any give time at a loss of 12to1 or higher, rest can be put towards account sub or other odd and ends like coin sinks.
D3 has something like this for coin cash out, Eve has their purchase plex that is just a legal coin purchase as does EQ I hear with Kronos?

Just call it what it is and then simplify it, you want ppl to buy more coin? Put in more quests with cool gear ppl want and then *GASP* dont make it NODROP! I am sure those that dont want the item would be happy to sell it for $$$$. Limit the drops and high goes the price on the market.
Its easier to just ramp up NPC, items, gear and other odd and end things with coin costs rather than having devs bang out the next mini pet or mount for silly crap. The game companies will end up getting more in profit due to the power gamer with endless pockets! Those that could careless can still grind out to get items and gear vs the instant coin warrior.

Rather have taxing with housing, guild halls and other things that have its flair for a price. Those that dont want such extravagance and is happy with plain jane stuff can just have it but both have same function. Those looking to get the best stuff can buy it, those earning it can enjoy their accomplishments.

People are wanting to be the best and grind to the top, I get that but there is no growth. Its a rat race. You end up with a ton of items ppl throw away or NPC vendor, factions that mean nothing after a week and a constant recreation of the same dungeons with different wallpaper and drapes. I rather have a shop/house/hall that I hire NPC's to grind out some of my/guild/village stuff I dont want to do. Faction grinding, item creation/crafting, merchant buying/selling, recruiting players or other NPC's to help, Mining and gathering.
Many games have or had some of these ideas. STO with NPC officers or KOTOR has sidekicks, etc. SWG had taxes on housing, you didnt have to get the biggest but if you did, it cost you to do so.

Factions needs to mean something again, places need to stay a constant mainstay to players. I have mentioned this before, but roaming clans and factions NPC need to be a dynamic not a static focus to the landscape. Horizons had some of this with the blight able to take over cities and players able to unlock new races and areas by beating back the blighted. If you let them take over it is lost till players free the areas again and keep control. Horizons failed on other things but little things like roads give 5% travel speed, wagon you can have follow you to carry more stuff and possibility to lose your home town to NPC undead if you didnt help in beating them back was something that should be in all games.
I think Rift started out with something good on the plane rifts popping in and helping with something different for players of all lvls but missed its mark along the way with no way for players to invest in its landscape. It too did the instance guild hall and housing idea which is never a good idea. It should be more like Horizons with set plots or SWG with anywhere open plots.

Be interested in what they do but I feel they will get caught up in that trap of new lands, reskinned instance dungeons, abandoned areas and lvl grinds. Remove the lvls, focus on faction and skills, keep factions viable and updated. Add items and quests under factions and put in new clans in the area. There is no reason the starting "noob" area should not be used for experienced players. They need to start working the lands to keep players busy.

Hell with tech today, a player should be able to venture into a mine/dungeon, scout and dig out "NPC use or player action" the area and unlock caches of NPC mobs with their own tunnels and making their own path as they go in. If the area doesnt see any player traffic over X time it caves in and next player has to dig it out again craving their own path. If a group of players keeps it clear and running it unlocks ore spots and npc raids. Over time it gets harder and harder to keep but the prize in having it becomes great and worth the pain.

How did "pay for cool looking visuals" become "pay for badass raid gear"?

For fuck sake, make unique models only available by in game means, and unique models only available by cash shop. Now people will do both to collect the coolest looking shit.

Fuck off with this conversation.