EQ Never

Quaid_sl said:

Sorry for derail but i have to add to this, cuz this dude has probably made a lot of people's lives miserable with this viewpoint.

I would straight up choke any fucking wiz that didn't have evac memmed and our group wiped. PLEASE enlighten me as to what that 8th magical wiz spell is that might 'save' your group instead of evac?

You do realize that one of the only reasons wiz/Druids got invited to groups in high end classic EQ was for evac, right?

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At the time, sure I agree. Now? Not really. There's no real risk in places like Seb or HS or Chardok. We know every patrol, every static spawn, every safe point. The only reason we die is because the server lagged, at which point evac is useless anyway. Again, I'm not saying it's for everyone, and it certainly might not have been the case in classic (I played a shaman, who also never had gate loaded, during live classic).


All of my adventures have ended successfully on P99 as a wizard. Sure there have been some wipes, but none of them would have been prevented by an evac. I've not made a single person miserable with this viewpoint, to my knowledge. Never once has a situation demanded the need for an evac, and the group said "goddamnit, why didn't you have evac?". Never happened. Ever. Not even once. It didn't even almost happen.

I know it has been linked before, but I believe it bears repeating. I'm not sure what to take away from that class panel except,

"You can do whatever you want! As long as what you want is dealing damage!"

The guy on the right had my hopes up at around the 9 minute mark saying that support roles would be viable, but that guy in the middle keeps crushing it again. The evidence they give that the combat won't turn out as chaotic as GW2 is simply, "Trust us, we played those games" and the fact that they put their AI system on a pedestal, which I highly doubt is even remotely implemented at this point. I feel like they are making plenty of promises at this point. I'm going to remain optimistic though.

Isn't it kind of odd that they don't make you submit something with your beta registration that shows your system specs? How do they know who can handle the game?

I'm interested. The graphics are not my taste. The open world, skill based character development, and exploration + world building is a big plus. I'm not sure the "breaking through the ground that other people can follow!" procedurally generated dungeons will be all that great, but at least it's new. I think that will be used as their means of instancing. I mean, they said they'd be temporary, so the holes close up and someone else busts out a new one. I'm sure people will figure out a way to "farm" them, unless there is some kind of crazy infinite depth. Then things could get interesting if the deeper you go the harder the mobs get and you can carve out hollows and build underground cities and outposts through the network of caves leading to the surface in order to transport precious minerals found only in the deepest hellish core of Norrath in exchange for supplies provided by the surface dwellings who are waging war on mighty dragons ruling the sky with breaths of flame and ice raining death upon the pitiful creatures fighting in vain below, the mighty adventurer, the lone soldier united with his compatriots in the epic struggle to contain the wilds from swallowing him whole. Take back what society has reduced to traffic and grocery store lines. Become a man, play EQNext. Unfortunately, it won't be that cool, but I admire the effort.

misery_sl said:

The guy on the right had my hopes up at around the 9 minute mark saying that support roles would be viable, but that guy in the middle keeps crushing it again. The evidence they give that the combat won't turn out as chaotic as GW2 is simply, "Trust us, we played those games" and the fact that they put their AI system on a pedestal, which I highly doubt is even remotely implemented at this point. I feel like they are making plenty of promises at this point. I'm going to remain optimistic though.

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I think there's basically no 'pure' anything. Most 'DPS classes' will still bring some sort of utility to a group. And everyone will, at the very least, be responsible for their own survivability by avoiding damage. No one will just be staring at a mob's ass spamming attacks, or standing way back out of harms way lobbing fireballs with impunity.

I do agree that their "Trust us, our AI is awesome and the Trinity isn't necessary!" isn't completely reassuring, but like you - I want it to be true, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Dizzam_sl said:

Isn't it kind of odd that they don't make you submit something with your beta registration that shows your system specs? How do they know who can handle the game?

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Cuz beta isn't for a long ass time and people might upgrade their rigs anyway

Quaid_sl said:

Cuz beta isn't for a long ass time and people might upgrade their rigs anyway

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True. Do you think EQN will require much more than Landmark? I imagine EQN will potentially have a lot more going on at once, but it's basically the same game hardware wise.

EQN will have the same minimum specs as planetside 2, I'd imagine. Perhaps higher recommended ones.

Ya know, the more I'm watching these videos of SOE Live the more I can't help this one thought....

What the hell made them do the reveal of THIS game at SOE Live?

The attendees are the most hardcore of their hardcore fans. People that have been playing everquest for years. Did they honestly believe this would get them fired up? They could have revealed this a E3 and had the whole industry jizz themselves at once... Instead they present controversial MMO mechanics to people with very strong opinions about them, and rooms fall flat and they have to beg for applause.

I feel like SOE doesn't understand it's base customers at all.

Quaid_sl said:

I feel like SOE doesn't understand it's base customers at all.

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Read the last 100 pages of this thread. Try to figure out what is going through some of these people heads. Explain this customer base to me after you do.

SUPER FUCKING SECRET SOE BEHIND THE SCENES

They were talking about Microtransactions....I only got this 8 second video clip with my phone.



I swear to god when I think of free to play and microtransactions this and only this comes to mind.

Quaid_sl said:

The attendees are the most hardcore of their hardcore fans. People that have been playing everquest for years. Did they honestly believe this would get them fired up? They could have revealed this a E3 and had the whole industry jizz themselves at once... Instead they present controversial MMO mechanics to people with very strong opinions about them, and rooms fall flat and they have to beg for applause.

I feel like SOE doesn't understand it's base customers at all.

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Serious question, what MMOs are out there (or coming soon) that come even remotely close to scratching that old EQ itch? I see talks of Black Desert but the combat there is incredibly over the top and action heavy. It looks nice enough (some serious texture issues in the video I've seen), but maybe I'm missing that magic that has people flipping out. I guess I'll have to look a little deeper. I think the obvious answer is that there is nothing coming at the moment, but damn, you'd think something would be on the horizon. I don't buy into the fact that there's no market for an MMO with some edge to it when the major argument against it is a couple of financial bombs that released in a broken state and had no hope of succeeding.

I'm definitely still really interested in EQN, but this game isn't going to be out for a long friggin time.

Why remake the past? These games aren't obsolete and they're STILL ADDING NEW CONTENT. Go play EQ, EQ2, WoW, etc... Whenever I get the itch, that's exactly what I fucking do, and it's scratched.


Not really sure why people want a remake with a new engine, like that's really possible. Go spend tons of fucking money on an engine so people can say there's no mystery and it's the same ol' game with new graphics.

Quaid_sl said:

Ya know, the more I'm watching these videos of SOE Live the more I can't help this one thought....

What the hell made them do the reveal of THIS game at SOE Live?

The attendees are the most hardcore of their hardcore fans. People that have been playing everquest for years. Did they honestly believe this would get them fired up? They could have revealed this a E3 and had the whole industry jizz themselves at once... Instead they present controversial MMO mechanics to people with very strong opinions about them, and rooms fall flat and they have to beg for applause.

I feel like SOE doesn't understand it's base customers at all.

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I completely understand what you are saying, but I think the real problem is that the customers don't understand the reality of the business. Personally I would love to see EQ remade with today's tech, but that is only going to happen through kick starter or something similar. SOE realized that yet another 3D diku mud is not going to work in today's market. I applaud them for trying something totally different. I honestly have my doubts if the can deliver and implement most of what they are saying, but if they can it could be just what the genre needs.

nfeel_sl said:

In which part exactly did the industry decide that subscription based games is a business plan that has to change?

Did the masses suddenly become poor and can not afford a minimum fee each month anymore or did the devs become incapable of making a game that truly delivers and therefore worth people's money?

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It's actually really simple economics. When you set a sub price at, say $15, you get the people who are willing to pay more than $15, but you get no more than $15 from any given person.

When you set a sub price at zero, you get the people that like the game but are too cheap to pay $15, but you *also* get the people who were willing to pay a whole lot more than $15 if you give them some outlet to do so. You know, those people who bought fungus tunics off ebay for $300.

It also lowers the exit threshold a bit - if you have to unsub for a while because you are bored, or playing the next hot thingT, you have less chance of coming back.

Jait_sl said:

Why remake the past? These games aren't obsolete and they're STILL ADDING NEW CONTENT. Go play EQ, EQ2, WoW, etc... Whenever I get the itch, that's exactly what I fucking do, and it's scratched.


Not really sure why people want a remake with a new engine, like that's really possible. Go spend tons of fucking money on an engine so people can say there's no mystery and it's the same ol' game with new graphics.

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I didn't say I wanted a remake, just an MMO with some edge to it. Despite some immense reservations, I'm still looking forward to EQN but that fucker isn't going to be here for a while. There are some key elements of the classic EQ1 design that I'm incredibly fond of and if there's anything intriguing out there, I'd be interested.

But going to EQ1 on the Live server doesn't scratch that itch, it's a completely different game now. I can still have some fun with it, but we're like 30 expansions deep and triple digit leveling. I'd totally play a classic emu server but the nightmare stories I hear on these boards keeps me away. I still may do it though. I'm not much for drama and tend to stay the fuck away from it.

I know I'm going off subject here, but is anyone else interested in seeing just how much impact the round table actually has on the direction of the game development?
If you read the Ratonga round table thread on the official forums you can't miss the posts and thumbs ups for the comments from people who dislike the look of the Kerran model. If they don't touch the models after all this, I'm going to be seriously skeptical that round table is anything more than a gimmick. They can keep the models expressive and make them look slightly less cartoon-like, and it should be one of the easier things for them to change. I'd also like to see more developer interaction with the forum posters inside their own threads, but I know it's still early.

Azeth_sl said:

they contradicted themselves when they said "you can switch classes mid fight" then in the next breath mentioned 8-skill hot bars.

...so i can switch at any point and change my hot bar selections. what is the point of limiting the hot bar then?

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I could switch out spells mid-combat in EQ1 too. Of course, it wasnt that easy depending on the circumstances. This is actually a two-edged sword. Flat-out denying in-combat spell changes has downsides too, always annoyed in GW2 when you need a cleanse and cannot switch to it because you still have a minute of "in-combat" due to the debuff from a dead opponent. I'd prefer the EQ1 method over that: make it a long channel to switch abilities (always, but only in combat it becomes a liability but still possible).

Elurin_sl said:

Ok, so I've mentioned TSW several times now, but for those unfamiliar, I made a quick image to explain. It honestly sounds like they're completely taking that system.

So on the left is the ability wheel. You level up and you can buy stuff off the wheel with exp. In EQN, this would mean doing achievements or whatever. And you'd be locked into a certain "tree" on the wheel based on which classes you've unlocked. At the bottom of that screen is your abilities. You can mix and match any of the abilities you've unlocked to make all kinds of combinations.

The right is the skills. There's a separate experience type for these, which in EQN sounds like your normal attributes (strength, intelligence, etc). You use these to equip better gear. So essentially this is EQN's tiers, except it may be different in EQN in that your gear doesn't give you attributes, but who knows how all that works yet.

It looks like all kinds of options, and there kind of are. But in the end, most DPS will end up with the same skills until they get nerfed, and then everyone migrates to a different build. Same with tanks/healers.

Since you can swap out those bottom 14 skills (7 active, 7 passive) at any time, you have lots of flexibility. But eventually everyone maxes out everything and you can just swap out gear and skills and fit any role.

So tell me exactly how EQN is vastly different?

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It is similar. Technically the TSW setup isnt bad so that's a decent start, it doesnt have to be vastly different. I think one big difference is that in TSW you are shown all the skills up front and pick what you want after trying it, while it appears a majority of EQN gameplay is based on actually becoming eligible to select "Archmage of Neriak" as your class, let alone maxing that class out.

I am hoping that maxing one set of class abilities actually takes ALOT of time, and there are many very hard to get and limited/locked classes or abilities. Or at least that they continue to put more of those in. Sounds like it is the new carrot instead of +gooder. That way you're always chasing your last few pokemons and never "done". At the same time, diversity actually comes with a price, not having that effort/time invested in your main class. Specialists tend to be more powerful and sought after then generalists when it comes to challenging content. If they balance the commitment required to max your class correctly then people will have to make hard choices.

Personally I always prefered chasing that special clicky item more then chasing 10 additional points of stamina so this new advancement method appeals to me.

Abefroman_sl said:

Ed. Note: No Trinity.

No dedicated healers or focused tanks based on combat mechanics.

Combat model ? visceral, active movement orientated gameplay.

Everyone is responsible for their own safety, and part of the action.

Discuss!!

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You copied that from the Arenanet website didnt you?

In case it is for EQN and overrules the previous info about trinity, I'm cautiously indifferent. I feel GW2 combat with more emphasis on roles then GW2 itself shows would be fine though. I'm not for straight up tank/heal/dps trinity, but dealing with difficult content should require characters that put focus into either damage mitigation (can be tank and agro based, can be disabling like stun/blind), support (healing, protective buffs), or control (slows, mez, root). I hate the extremes where tanking/healing goes so out of hand that it's one-shot city unless the character is dedicated tank, and only a specific one healing class is acceptable the rest are rubbish.

Is it me or does their destructible world idea seems like it only pertains to very specific objects/locations? After watching that gameplay video where the Golem opens a hole in the ground....that just seemed so scripted to happen in a certain area.

Their EQ Landmark "asset builder" game seems more "world destructible" like minecraft where you can pretty much just do anything you want.

I'm hoping I'm really wrong but it seemed like the actual game will just be a normal world with certain scripted events or small areas where the hole opens up and you fall through or whatever.....not true minecraft style like they kind of made a lot of people believe.