EQ Never

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Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,903
6,889
Jeff Buttler was rather firm on the no healers thing. It's like he got dosed and raped by a cleric at the first Fan Faire or something. It's personal.
Kind of short sighted of them and goes against the "Play Your Way" claim. Some people actually love to play support classes and don't like to fight. Their sense of enjoyment comes from being the glue, not the hammer. It seems like mmo devs are getting more narrow minded these days. They should probably get out more and meet real people away from their little cubicles and niche.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
Kind of short sighted of them and goes against the "Play Your Way" claim. Some people actually love to play support classes and don't like to fight. Their sense of enjoyment comes from being the glue, not the hammer. It seems like mmo devs are getting more and more narrow minded. They should probably get out more and meet real people.
That goes even further when someone asked if people who WANT to play supporting roles will be rewarded for your efforts and the response was "Well, if you do damage.."
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,903
6,889
That goes even further when someone asked if people who WANT to play supporting roles will be rewarded for your efforts and the response was "Well, if you do damage.."
Aye, I'm not against getting rid of the trinity. I think it could be a good thing, but forcing everyone to be DPS is moronic.
 

LadyVex_sl

shitlord
868
0
You say that but try being a guy who actually enjoys being a cleric. I'm sure they're others but i've been a healer through all of EQ and EQII. It's just what I do. I'm pretty well being turned into a potion you pay some currency for whenever you want a heal.

This may change but it's happening (and happened) in other games as well. It's a shame that whatever a player needs, we'll just put into your pocket.

I guess MMO's are going to micro-transactions, queues, and menus.
I'm 50% in your corner and 50% in the corner of others who dislike healing.

I've been a cleric/healer throughout all of my MMO career; I've taken vacations - (I boxed an enchanter in EQ and played a dps class for awhile because I was sick to death of having to show up to make CH chains happen and was wary of a repeat then they gave hunters tranq shot, wtf) but eventually I go back to healing.

I like it. Sometimes I love it. I like scraping people up off the floor. I like knowing that superb play on my end might be able to make up for shit play on someone else's end. And, I like that as a healer I tend to be a integral part to a group.

But then you have things that get added to the game that are made ass difficult for you, as a healer, to complete. In EQ this was generally in the category of soloing, or later on, doing the missions. You were being left out of content, because as a healer you were very much primed to group, but had shit all skills for the down time.

So on those times, being a healer isn't fun. I wouldn't mind a revamp in the way things are healed, but in general I don't mind it.

What I mind is that being a healer in a lot of games has always meant being content to require a group to do damned near anything. And the answer to that has always been, WELL, you picked a cleric and the cleric is a social class, THEREFORE YOU MAY NOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT 5 OTHER PEOPLE.

That's not realistic.

But it's also not realistic to expect a group situation in all areas, especially when you're making/have made a game to cater to everyone.

I'm not sure how good of an idea it is, but I've always maintained an excellent way to making healing fun was to give fairly interesting abilities + the typical heals etc that translate into a solo situation. Much like DnD, and maybe even the much reviled 4th edition. Heals are just divine damage which you can harness against your enemies etc; make abilities also have offensive capabilities. This was done somewhat in GW2, but it can still be done without removing the trinity. (And I don't necessarily mean solely damage, but you can even take a bit from a game like LoL, where their support classes have some rather fun and unique abilities that are not about doing damage OR healing, but are something in between that are a real benefit, and are fun to use.)

I don't mind the trinity. I mind when the trinity is the only answer to every question or problem posed by the game, ala original EQ. But on the opposite end of the spectrum, it cannot be considered invalid.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,036
Kind of short sighted of them and goes against the "Play Your Way" claim. Some people actually love to play support classes and don't like to fight. Their sense of enjoyment comes from being the glue, not the hammer. It seems like mmo devs are getting more narrow minded these days. They should probably get out more and meet real people away from their little cubicles and niche.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, if they want to design a game where non-healer strategies become viable? Sure. But why nuke healers? Are they afraid that healing strategies will be strongest? Well, who cares, that's up to the players, let them decide what's best or usable, their job is to make sure everything is open.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
Yeah, exactly. I mean, if they want to design a game where non-healer strategies become viable? Sure. But why nuke healers? Are they afraid that healing strategies will be strongest? Well, who cares, that's up to the players, let them decide what's best or usable, their job is to make sure everything is open.
EXACTLY. I mean in EQ1 (This isn't a call for EQ3 but the example is pertinent.) there were multiple avenues to take down various tiers of mobs, from tank n' spank, root rot, fear kite, on and on. I'm not saying the trinity should be the only option as how to engage an encounter, but let it be viable. Why remove ONE technique, a popular one, just because it was trendy a year ago, or because Jeff's wife sucked his guild's MT's cock at Fan Faire 2?

The Reddit community seems to agree.http://strawpoll.me/305971/r
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,232
905
That frustrates me about Butler being so stern about healers. Why such prejudice against healers? When did we become such an integral part of the game comparatively to any other class? Why have classes at all? Just give me about 5 or so AA Tabs and let me get 5 of my friends and we'll decide how we want to play that day. We'll stock up on heal potions and i'll be the tank and everyone can be DPS.. maybe that will be fun.
 

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,932
891
On the whole healer thing, the impression I was getting was more along the lines of:

1. Healers aren't necessary for a group.
2. Healers won't just sit back and heal.

So it's not that there aren't healers, but fights can be handled in ways other than having a healer keep everyone up (smart use of damage avoidance, shit like that). And healer classes will likely be built on similar principles to the blood mage or the warrior priest.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
We're aware of that, but the reason everyone is worried about no trinity is GW2 failed it so fucking hard. And as far as no healer / gw2 went.. you could spec heals but they were completely useless and you may as well just DPS. I don't want to DPS, unless my DPS is causing buffs and heals.
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Everyone is big on comparing the graphics to Pixar and WoW, but beyond the characters didn't that Ashfang place look ripped straight from PlanetSide 2? I get that it's using the same engine, but that was a bit of a bummer, even the day and night cycle looked identical to the tech demos we saw pre-PS2 launch.

Also, I get that much of the magic (or what we're being told is magic) about EQ Next comes from the voxels, but in reconstructing the entire world this way I wonder how great anything will look. They didn't show shit so it's hard to judge. I hear there were a few iterations of Freeport shown during the Creating a World panel, but I've yet to see it. I was told it didn't look as good as that original screenshot that came before the restart, and I've yet to see anything that looks as good as that first Kelethin shot.

I hope they didn't trade a beautiful world for a potential gimmick.
 

slicedmass_sl

shitlord
132
0
It will just end up really crappy if the fights consist of this.

- step 1 everyone attack enemy/enemies
- step 2 whoever reaches 1/3 health first disengages the combat
- step 3 disengaged player runs around dodging while waiting for autoheal or whatever they have for in combat healing
- step 4 player re-enters battle at full health
- step 5 repeat as players hit 1/3 health.
 

Hinadurus_sl

shitlord
131
0
Double jumps just cuz, Michael Bay, whirlwinds, styrofoam everything, diablo 3, kerrans, oh god kerrans, over the top impossible movements, 40 different ways to kill a pack of mobs.
Dunno why but in my head this was being read to the tune of R.E.M.'s It's the End of the World as we Know it.
 

spronk

FPS noob
23,358
27,216
Story bricks is a layer of code designed to let Developers create NPCs with a unprecedented number of "motivation variables" (for lack of a better word) that are so complicated that the Devs can't accurately predict wtf the NPC is even going to do at any given point in time.
When Ultima Online launched way back in 1997 it had a NPC AI system in place. To quote fromhttp://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur..._.php?print=1:
article_sl said:
The only way to give users a dynamically changing world was to build a system that modeled a world and could generate events and dilemmas on its own. "What we decided was not to go with [the room] mentality. We wanted to simulate a real world. Our virtual ecology, for example, is a complex system. The rabbits need grass, the wolves eat the rabbits, and the wolves die without meat. They actually catch and kill rabbits." And of course the wolves are dragon food. Kill too many wolves, and the dragons will look elsewhere for dinner--like the nearest town.
Unfortunately they turned off all these AI systems within 2 weeks of launch, because people were spawn camping stuff and never letting a chance for emergent AI to... emerge. Obviously I'm sure stuff has progressed since then but I do wonder if you can really plan around all the really, really, really dumb things people are going to do. The classic "omg you fucking noob let the orc wander into town to start the group quest, stop killing him!" area chat.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
anyone remember the south park where the underpants gnomes steal kids' underpants to make profit but have no idea how they're actually going to make the profit? i think smed and co. watched this episode right before they put this game together.
 

slicedmass_sl

shitlord
132
0
anyone remember the south park where the underpants gnomes steal kids' underpants to make profit but have no idea how they're actually going to make the profit? i think smed and co. watched this episode right before they put this game together.
if you want to see an indy version of EQN go look up greed monger and all the videos.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
It will just end up really crappy if the fights consist of this.

- step 1 everyone attack enemy/enemies
- step 2 whoever reaches 1/3 health first disengages the combat
- step 3 disengaged player runs around dodging while waiting for autoheal or whatever they have for in combat healing
- step 4 player re-enters battle at full health
- step 5 repeat as players hit 1/3 health.
Healing is a defensive ability, some classes do not have defensive abilities (e.g. Rogue). So there has to be some kind of healer/support.