tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,518
- 583
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
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Guest, did you like the last podcast notification?? Well here's the second one, and for the third podcast! Yep. This Thursday 8-8-24 at 7pm Central
Go here to check out his podcast thread for info on topics and links!Go into the FoH discord and find the Happy Time Fun Hour channel and give it a listen!
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,518
- 583
That would be awesome.Maybe the players are made of voxels too and you can chip away at them for permanent player model changes...
I'd love to see someone's leg get cut off and have to have a peg leg.
*you have found Creslin's Toe* -- Loot all
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,518
- 583
Still not a big fan, but I will say he took the time to answer my questions when I just walked up to him when he was heading to lunch. Smedley and Butler on the other hand gave off the "Stay the Fuck Away" vibe bigtime. You will note, I didn't dispute Ut's statement that Butler was an ass ;-)
If I never saw a Dave Georgeson presentation again, it would be too soon. Talk about your vintage snake-oil salesman. Yikes.
The subterranean tiers seem to be the most overly contrived idea that they're hitching their wagon to. It would seem more believable to me if you were to set sail into the ocean and have procedurally-generated islands/archipelagos to be discovered rather than just digging a hole to see what might open up beneath you. I'm also worried about the procedurally-generated content as a whole. I don't know if exploration will be fun if I know what I'm discovering will be gone before anyone else could see it. That just screams "generic" to me and I have a feeling the novelty of it will wear off very quickly. That kind of content shouldn't be the focal point, but an addition to permanent landmarks and points of interest. What they're doing is just a new take on instancing, and if that's the majority of the content I'm expected to consume then it's going to be mighty disappointing.
As has been said here many times now, it's pretty clear from what we were actually shown that this game is still in its infancy. That's both good and bad. The bad part being that they're us giving a lot of "We're going to do this and this and this" but they didn't actually show it happening. The AI stuff sounds cool in theory, but I have a feeling it will get "figured out" quickly by the players. At the end the day, NPCs aren't going to be operating with the same brain capacity as a human being, so they'll presumably have a finite amount of variables that dictates which direction that specific NPC can go. And with a finite amount of variables comes an inevitable mapping-out of said directions. Players aren't stupid, obviously.
The good part is that if the game still has quite a ways to go, hopefully the developers can scope the general position of the community and tailor the game to it over its development. It's probably naive of me to think that, but a guy can hope.
At the end of the day, we were shown a tech demo for EQLandmark and made a ton of promises for Everquest Next. It's going to be an interesting 12-18 months watching how this whole thing unfolds.
The subterranean tiers seem to be the most overly contrived idea that they're hitching their wagon to. It would seem more believable to me if you were to set sail into the ocean and have procedurally-generated islands/archipelagos to be discovered rather than just digging a hole to see what might open up beneath you. I'm also worried about the procedurally-generated content as a whole. I don't know if exploration will be fun if I know what I'm discovering will be gone before anyone else could see it. That just screams "generic" to me and I have a feeling the novelty of it will wear off very quickly. That kind of content shouldn't be the focal point, but an addition to permanent landmarks and points of interest. What they're doing is just a new take on instancing, and if that's the majority of the content I'm expected to consume then it's going to be mighty disappointing.
As has been said here many times now, it's pretty clear from what we were actually shown that this game is still in its infancy. That's both good and bad. The bad part being that they're us giving a lot of "We're going to do this and this and this" but they didn't actually show it happening. The AI stuff sounds cool in theory, but I have a feeling it will get "figured out" quickly by the players. At the end the day, NPCs aren't going to be operating with the same brain capacity as a human being, so they'll presumably have a finite amount of variables that dictates which direction that specific NPC can go. And with a finite amount of variables comes an inevitable mapping-out of said directions. Players aren't stupid, obviously.
The good part is that if the game still has quite a ways to go, hopefully the developers can scope the general position of the community and tailor the game to it over its development. It's probably naive of me to think that, but a guy can hope.
At the end of the day, we were shown a tech demo for EQLandmark and made a ton of promises for Everquest Next. It's going to be an interesting 12-18 months watching how this whole thing unfolds.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
- 7,550
- 2,280
First off, I will try EQN. I have quit MMO's in the past few years. UO and EQ were my first MMO's I tried quite a few of them, and tried to really like them, I played WoW for years until I just realized that everything I wanted in an MMO was not there. I hope EQN will give me a few months enjoyment, but I have my doubts. We shall see.
I would rather have a subscription than FTP. I find Free To Play annoying. I get the feeling (probably irrationally) that somewhere down the line I'll have to pay $500 to complete a epic weapon quest. I like that paying a monthly fee tends to reduce the number of damn fools you play with.
I am okay with multi-classing. But for the love of god, keep the trinity. It gives me a feel of role for my character. Having multiple classes is okay, as well as mixing and matching skills are okay, but TANK HEALS DPS is a good social setup. Everyone LOL FACEROLL MASH DPS BUTTONS doesn't cut it for me. I want some semblance of tactics, and kiting everything because you didn't spend $20 on potions isn't the tactics I am looking for. I agree that four skills do not make a class. Eight spell gem options and 8 abilities per class (16 total) would make more sense. Let casts pick and choose what spells they use! Let's not make 4th edition D&D. EQ and WoW (vanilla) had a good balance in skills. EQ 2 was an abomination of skills.
I am okay with the style of the characters. EQ tried to "improve" the character models, and we got down syndrome humans and half elves, with Arnold Schwarzenagger steriod abusing ogres, and we're not going to be happy with the original EQ1 models 15 years later.
Loot does not need to be balanced. Ghoulbane, Manastone, Glowing Black Stone, Golden Efreeti Boots, JBOOTS, Rubicite Breastplate, Flowing Black Silk Sash, ect. And kept their usefulness for varying lengths of time. Those were ITEMS. Anyone care to name the hot items of WoW, or any other game made in the last 10 years that are still farmed because they are cool and useful to some degree? BoE/BoP: Hate it. Twinking is an art and fun besides.
Quests: Getting Soulfire or The Firey Avenger or Ice Comet spell by quests, no giant yellow "!" needed. Yes, I know everyone just looks up the quests on a wiki or allakhazam's. But you didn't have to if you didn't want to.
TRAIN TO ZONE! Hated them. Loved them. If you played EQ classic, you know what I mean. This should be in game in some form.
I would rather have a subscription than FTP. I find Free To Play annoying. I get the feeling (probably irrationally) that somewhere down the line I'll have to pay $500 to complete a epic weapon quest. I like that paying a monthly fee tends to reduce the number of damn fools you play with.
I am okay with multi-classing. But for the love of god, keep the trinity. It gives me a feel of role for my character. Having multiple classes is okay, as well as mixing and matching skills are okay, but TANK HEALS DPS is a good social setup. Everyone LOL FACEROLL MASH DPS BUTTONS doesn't cut it for me. I want some semblance of tactics, and kiting everything because you didn't spend $20 on potions isn't the tactics I am looking for. I agree that four skills do not make a class. Eight spell gem options and 8 abilities per class (16 total) would make more sense. Let casts pick and choose what spells they use! Let's not make 4th edition D&D. EQ and WoW (vanilla) had a good balance in skills. EQ 2 was an abomination of skills.
I am okay with the style of the characters. EQ tried to "improve" the character models, and we got down syndrome humans and half elves, with Arnold Schwarzenagger steriod abusing ogres, and we're not going to be happy with the original EQ1 models 15 years later.
Loot does not need to be balanced. Ghoulbane, Manastone, Glowing Black Stone, Golden Efreeti Boots, JBOOTS, Rubicite Breastplate, Flowing Black Silk Sash, ect. And kept their usefulness for varying lengths of time. Those were ITEMS. Anyone care to name the hot items of WoW, or any other game made in the last 10 years that are still farmed because they are cool and useful to some degree? BoE/BoP: Hate it. Twinking is an art and fun besides.
Quests: Getting Soulfire or The Firey Avenger or Ice Comet spell by quests, no giant yellow "!" needed. Yes, I know everyone just looks up the quests on a wiki or allakhazam's. But you didn't have to if you didn't want to.
TRAIN TO ZONE! Hated them. Loved them. If you played EQ classic, you know what I mean. This should be in game in some form.
Grumpus
Molten Core Raider
- 1,927
- 223
EqNext's first Rallying Cry.
"The reveal has unearthed angry lurkers. Will you push them back to obscurity or let them roam free to shill and troll. The choice is yours"
meStevo
I think your wife's a bigfoot gus.
- 6,456
- 4,722
If it's a 'server up much of the time, pushing/builds/resetting everything at our discretion, NDAs, blah blah' beta, I would. 'Sign up now for 10+ beta weekends over the next 2 years!' - no. I have a lifetime sub to STO, I've made worse decisions with money and MMOs.
Pretty much, was told the old FoH peeps I read quietly for years set up shop here. Blame the combination of EVE's FoH channel and EQNext finally unveiling.
Not going to shill or troll.
Malakriss
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 12,580
- 11,919
No, I'd stick with EVE and still try out FFXIV while waiting for a better game. But frankly I think they're a long way from "beta" so they still got time to do a Microsoft 360 and then moon walk in the right direction.
Grumpus
Molten Core Raider
- 1,927
- 223
Just making a generalization about lurkers. I am a pretty rampant racist.
Lleauaric
Sparkletot Monger
- 4,058
- 1,823
ok so fleshing it out.
Heres what I imagine the Adaptive AI looking like... using Guk as an example.
Old Guk, we all get, Go in, skill some static mobs, camp spot, wait for FBSS to drop. Trinity worked.. dungeon was fun. Times change.
What I envision the new way it would go....
Elves want to build an outpost in Innothule to gain a foothold and access to materials in that area. Rallying cry begins. New outpost starts being built. Frogloks resent encroachment on their territory and begin to launch sorties on the outpost. Series of quest tasks are released. Tier 1.. kill Froglocs, bring back X scalps to fort. Tier 2.. waylay and ambush Froglok Raiding Parties on way to interfere with building. Tier 3. Attack and destroy Froglok raiding encampments and Lieutenants. Tier 4: Kill Froglok Leaders.
To kill Froglok leaders, you need to actually enter the Froglok town. Breaking into town is complicated. Dungeon will react to you. Breaking in the front door will promote an overwhelming response. You can do it.. but bring an army. Ok.. So as you move through the town, there are no static mobs. Everything is going about tasks. If you get noticed, you get attacked. Task requires stealth and movement classes to get into range of kill. Get into area, and outside room where target is. Everyone switch to combat roles. Attack.
Specific combat behavior I simply dont have any clear idea about. But it seems its a constant assessment of whats going on. Mobs will bounce. Need to control damage output. High Damage classes sacrifice defense and healing effectiveness and vise versa. SO the players start in. Mage starts in with Ice Comet.. Mob attacks, and is pretty pissed off. Mage needs to defend as best he can until another catches aggro with damage. Mob wandering by room hears fighting and sounds alarm, guards start rushing toward fight and pouring into area. Hold off guards and adds. Suddenly CC is needed, one of players breaks off and beings to CC, as more come in more CC is needed. Players bring down wall to stop more help from entering area. Mobs start digging through. Main target finally dead. Players break back into stealth mode and clear area... Town is on guard now and dungeon will begin to actively hunt for players. Maybe there are multiple groups in and the resources town has are divided.
Once mobs are dead... ?... Do they spawn more? Are they sent in from a main Froglok area? Once a main target is dead, they have said it stays dead... so you kill the General, do the Frogloks elect a new general, but this one has learned to be watchful of mages and have more hate for them? Does the Froglok town start taking preparations to stop stealth movement? To what degree does the AI react to player actions... no just on individual mobs, but locally? These are important, because they decide how combat has to be.
No static mobs and respawning means the trinity is irrelevant because mob behavior isnt static. If mobs and dungeons are reactive then the players need a large degree of flexability to adapt to an ever changing environment.
Heres what I imagine the Adaptive AI looking like... using Guk as an example.
Old Guk, we all get, Go in, skill some static mobs, camp spot, wait for FBSS to drop. Trinity worked.. dungeon was fun. Times change.
What I envision the new way it would go....
Elves want to build an outpost in Innothule to gain a foothold and access to materials in that area. Rallying cry begins. New outpost starts being built. Frogloks resent encroachment on their territory and begin to launch sorties on the outpost. Series of quest tasks are released. Tier 1.. kill Froglocs, bring back X scalps to fort. Tier 2.. waylay and ambush Froglok Raiding Parties on way to interfere with building. Tier 3. Attack and destroy Froglok raiding encampments and Lieutenants. Tier 4: Kill Froglok Leaders.
To kill Froglok leaders, you need to actually enter the Froglok town. Breaking into town is complicated. Dungeon will react to you. Breaking in the front door will promote an overwhelming response. You can do it.. but bring an army. Ok.. So as you move through the town, there are no static mobs. Everything is going about tasks. If you get noticed, you get attacked. Task requires stealth and movement classes to get into range of kill. Get into area, and outside room where target is. Everyone switch to combat roles. Attack.
Specific combat behavior I simply dont have any clear idea about. But it seems its a constant assessment of whats going on. Mobs will bounce. Need to control damage output. High Damage classes sacrifice defense and healing effectiveness and vise versa. SO the players start in. Mage starts in with Ice Comet.. Mob attacks, and is pretty pissed off. Mage needs to defend as best he can until another catches aggro with damage. Mob wandering by room hears fighting and sounds alarm, guards start rushing toward fight and pouring into area. Hold off guards and adds. Suddenly CC is needed, one of players breaks off and beings to CC, as more come in more CC is needed. Players bring down wall to stop more help from entering area. Mobs start digging through. Main target finally dead. Players break back into stealth mode and clear area... Town is on guard now and dungeon will begin to actively hunt for players. Maybe there are multiple groups in and the resources town has are divided.
Once mobs are dead... ?... Do they spawn more? Are they sent in from a main Froglok area? Once a main target is dead, they have said it stays dead... so you kill the General, do the Frogloks elect a new general, but this one has learned to be watchful of mages and have more hate for them? Does the Froglok town start taking preparations to stop stealth movement? To what degree does the AI react to player actions... no just on individual mobs, but locally? These are important, because they decide how combat has to be.
No static mobs and respawning means the trinity is irrelevant because mob behavior isnt static. If mobs and dungeons are reactive then the players need a large degree of flexability to adapt to an ever changing environment.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,115
- 14,754