EQ Never

Pyros_sl said:

I really hope classes aren't what they're going to monetize. Especially if classes acquisition is done via quests or other similar stuff, and not "kill 200 shadowknight NPCs to unlock the shadowknight class" kind of shit. In general I don't like the "unlock shit by spending x time or by spending money to do it instantly" in F2P games, and that's especially true for core gameplay elements such as classes or skills.

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Indeed, let us hope they learned their lesson in the change alliance from Qeynos to Freeport quest in EQ2

In regards to the Blizzard/WoW/ Titan comments, I can assure you that they have a team that has been reviewing EQNext and plans are now in the works. I'm not saying they care an incredible amount but I'm sure if there is this much fan reaction, it's worth noting the cause and effects.

I have never cared for WoW and Diablo 3 was frustrating beyond belief but they are not fools. I would love (if invlolved) what Tigole, Furor and the other Everquest guys snatched by Blizzard are thinking and what they would say if they could post right now.

''But star trek did it so we can do whatever we want with lore again! ''
-SoE

Not sure what to feel about collecting classes, but the rest sounds like it has a lot of potential. To be awesome or to fail in a spectacular fashion. Hard to say which at this point.

As for raids... when I watched the videos the combat reminded me a lot of TERA. That combined with destructible environments and flashy effects will probably make any large scale encounters problematic. I think that even 20 players fighting the same boss would be very messy.

Quaid_sl said:

Ugh collecting classes would be like the least important thing for me in EQnext. It would be just as much of a chore as grinding levels.

I wanna explore every inch of Norrath. I want to collect my ideal set(s) of gear. I wanna kill the biggest baddies and build a sweet house.

I want to do all these things, and I want to do it with a character that has more than 4 fucking abilities. If im out exploring and I stumble across a class acquisition, so be it, but I'd rather just have all of them at the beginning and just play the game how I see fit.

Isn't that the whole point?

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They said (in the classes panel, I believe) that the "collectible" classes are not mandatory. You can play start to finish with only the base class. I'm assuming that means that in addition to the four abilities that come from your weapons, those 4 other slots are also populated from your base class.

Also, @Daelos, they mentioned their plans to reward good support players. I think some dude asked a question about a big battle with archers shooting arrows, and mages casting fireballs, and then he asked about the support dudes behind the hill. The jist of their answer said that they will not force someone to play a healer because it's "necessary", but they will definitely give support classes a meaningful purpose.

Has anyone linked Raph's ecology stuff lately? I am getting old and senile, but I think I linked this back when all we knew was 'sandbox'. Anyway, good reading while we wait. This stuff was written 7 years ago.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/03...source-system/
http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/04...system-part-2/
http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/05...system-part-3/

"In the long run, I believe that all the pressures are towards simulationist environments, rather than handcrafted ones. CPU power continues to outpace the cost of human capability to design static scenarios. At some point, reality will catch up to our designs from 1995."

Quaid_sl said:

Ugh collecting classes would be like the least important thing for me in EQnext. It would be just as much of a chore as grinding levels.

I wanna explore every inch of Norrath. I want to collect my ideal set(s) of gear. I wanna kill the biggest baddies and build a sweet house.

I want to do all these things, and I want to do it with a character that has more than 4 fucking abilities. If im out exploring and I stumble across a class acquisition, so be it, but I'd rather just have all of them at the beginning and just play the game how I see fit.

Isn't that the whole point?

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Not in a "horizontal" game. I know that term sounds pretty gay by now, and it seems like something people throw out as a catchphrase. But horizontal games are essentially built on acquiring more tools to counter specific things, rather than becoming stronger to do so. So having a water template to counter a fire elemental, is actually a power akin to leveling to max level. Someone without a "water based" template (Which could be an ice mage, some kind of gay Aqua Man warrior, or Aqua Lad the rogue) would be at a pretty big disadvantage, much like someone who is not "level appropriate" for content in games now.

In other words, if this was a "vertical" game, you'd essentially be asking to be max level. (Not totally because there are tiers in this game--but it's what it roughly translates to.) It would be like in Pokemon if you started with them all, or in MTG if you had multiples of every card. Part of the game is going out and getting the tools.

Some people think those kinds of games suck....I think they CAN suck, but if they are done well, like say, getting those tools/pokemon/champions are a natural byproduct of exploring the world? It can be fun. (But it's not EQ.)

Quaid_sl said:

Don't most f2p MMOs allow you to unlock classes with money? Why would EQN be any different?

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EQ and Vanguard recently gave up on selling classes (I imagine EQ2 did too). SoE said they learned their lesson and that selling classes / races didnt' work. Can't see them forgetting that lesson in EQN.

Grim1_sl said:

EQ and Vanguard recently gave up on selling classes (I imagine EQ2 did too). SoE said they learned their lesson and that selling classes / races didnt' work. Can't see them forgetting that lesson in EQN.

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I expect both a quest method and a skip the quests and just buy the class from shop option.

Grim1_sl said:

EQ and Vanguard recently gave up on selling classes (I imagine EQ2 did too). SoE said they learned their lesson and that selling classes / races didnt' work. Can't see them forgetting that lesson in EQN.

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You have way more faith than I do.

Lets play Cube World to get our shit together while we wait for landmark.

Voxel-based-pvp-sandbox-multiplayer rpg with raids and action based combat!
https://picroma.com/cubeworld

something makes me think they are going to make building (durrr) a giant aspect of EQN and not just landmark and then they will sell bundles of material for people/guilds to build. They may also have a pvp island or whatever they choose to do where guild houses etc can be destroyed and require materials to be fixed (kinda like a rally for a guild) so you could either buy them to fix your guildhouse or find them.

I really wish they would have done EQN as a first person game, really hate how all MMO's have pretty much all adapted to 3rd person as the norm.
There is a huge element of immersion that happens when you are forced to play in first person, the scale of everything around you actually means something, you can see how tall a tree really is, or how big a mob is when you are attacking its knee.
This is not the same as an MMO where you can switch from 3rd to 1st person as you see fit, a game _made_ for first person works differently, you can be surprised by your surroundings, you can be attacked from behind if a mob actually sneaks up on you. Being able to see 360 degrees around your guy just removes a whole level of gameplay.

Big Flex_sl said:

Lets play Cube World to get our shit together while we wait for landmark.

Voxel-based-pvp-sandbox-multiplayer rpg with raids and no healer bros.

https://picroma.com/cubeworld

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Watched a video last night. I'm considering it lol

Terial_sl said:

I really wish they would have done EQN as a first person game, really hate how all MMO's have pretty much all adapted to 3rd person as the norm.
There is a huge element of immersion that happens when you are forced to play in first person, the scale of everything around you actually means something, you can see how tall a tree really is, or how big a mob is when you are attacking its knee.
This is not the same as an MMO where you can switch from 3rd to 1st person as you see fit, a game _made_ for first person works differently, you can be surprised by your surroundings, you can be attacked from behind if a mob actually sneaks up on you. Being able to see 360 degrees around your guy just removes a whole level of gameplay.

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Agree whole-heartedly. Everything (well, almost all your typical MMOs) suffers from MMO bigness instead, where a step is about half your characters height. I think the last one that didn't wasnt LOTRO, which looks great in first person, and at least for the typical quest hub gameplay, you can play in first person almost the entire time if you wish (groups and raids you'll need to zoom out more). But still, it's designed to look good in first person, as far as scale.

Big Flex_sl said:

Lets play Cube World to get our shit together while we wait for landmark.

Voxel-based-pvp-sandbox-multiplayer rpg with raids and no healer bros.

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Neat thing about this game is it has a soft cap system. I love soft cap games. I wish someone would design a PvP game with relative soft caps (Relative as in the tangential curve is based off of your opponents skill). This way it gives unlimited levels that don't just become less valuable per skill level, but instead only become less valuable if you way outclass your opponent. However, as others grind, or new mobs are added to the game with higher skill levels, your extra skill level becomes more valuable again And again, because it's a soft cap relative system, there should never be something that's "unhittable" for you--rather there is only "so much" of a bonus you can get from having more skill. But the closer in skill in you are, the more noticeable the curve.

So 100 sword skill vs 100 defense=90% chance to hit. But 50 Sword Skill vs 100 Defense=70% to hit and then 1 Sword skill vs 100 defense=60% chance to hit. So the most important points come when players are about even, but their advantage quickly drops off as the space between opens.

Anyway, this system would have problems, too. But I like the "infinitely" get stronger aspect of MMO's when its NOT tied to gear. I really think the "power" grind should be separate from the "gear grind", unlike WoW where they combined it. I like gear that'svery, veryrare--so people might only get a couple magic items every few months of play. In the current MMO space, that wouldn't be possible because gear is the only way to increase your characters power...But in a system that has grinding for power, you could return gear to that "rare huge bonus" that it kind of was in "early" EQ (Non-max level).

So, in this way, you go do a dungeon and get nothing in terms of gear, you'd still get "levels" or "skill points" or "AA" or whatever so you feel like you've gotten something at the end of the play time, whether or not you got an item. But when you DO actually get an item, it should be like finding a treasure--very rare.

So wait wait...

SOE makes a game without levels... But then makes class acquisition the new leveling scheme? In addition to tiers? The whole point of this world is no (or very few) boundaries. Ill be pissed right the fuck off if this game turns into another class acquisition game like Marvel Heroes, where I have to grind for hours to unlock a new hero. I mean fine, but at least allow me to purchase the ability to avoid this grind in your supposedly leveling free game.

EQN is supposed to be about gameplay defined by the user, intangible goals, not a series of follow the breadcrumbs to each class until 'completion' of your character. If I wanted that kind of gameplay I'd be playing a current gen loot pi?ata.

Edit: it is also worth mentioning, that EQ2 is now selling level 85 characters on demand.

Quaid_sl said:

So wait wait...

SOE makes a game without levels... But then makes class acquisition the new leveling scheme? In addition to tiers? .

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Yep, it's pokemon. The tiers are like evolving your pokemon. You could also think about it like League of Legends--and the tiers are like leveling your champions in every game (Except they keep them). Their constant allusions to League and how you can look at an encounter and decide "which build is best", is essentially like League counter picking, or again, Pokemon.

You see a Water Elemental? Pikachu, I choose you....I mean, Storm (Lightning) Rogue class, I choose you!

Oh no, is it a FLYING, water elemental? Well then...Storm MAGE (Range lightning), I choose you!

Excuse me while I go slit my wrists