EQ Never

Merquise_sl said:

EQ1 touched on that a little, by not telling anyone how game mechanics worked. Also no proper logging and scripting tools available.

Anyone remember buying AGI/DEX rings only to find out later they did almost NOTHING.

Crafting items: I think the challenge for most MMOs is to make the right balance for crafting. So that players even use it, or its not completely necessary, like in Final fantasy MMO you had to craft food and items just to function properly in a group.

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I can only hope they work on some good crafting ideas. Best to date was SWG when is came to crafting. Too bad other games never picked up on that idea of quality in materials = better stats on the same weapon name when creating it. The mats you collected had its own stats that affected the final product being made with it. Even many of those mats were rares with limited exposure like 1 week ever in the game. Those mats were pricey but anything you made with it like weapons hit like a Truck!!! With this setup it made sense to see durability and breakage in a game. Repairing only X times before it was toast.

They just needed to be able to search the auctions better than what they had. Like a min/max X stat tweak, like many other games you had slackers and influx of the same item but you could charge premium for a better than others stat item. Being a total crafter you could gain higher profits on the work you did vs other games when every smoo looks at your price and shrugs then goes and grinds up another alt to undercut you just for laughs while flooding the AH even more with useless crap in the hopes to recoup costs on selling their crap.

It also helped that limits to item drops were in the game for SWG, bumped crafters. Hell ppl had you on speed-dial when it came to being a good crafter. It meant you took your job seriously and used the best materials! Even simple outfits had its use, given it was part of the game you wanted to have a certain look.

With all that, the biggest help in crafter control was the 1 toon per server. Hated that idea at first till I was grinding out crafting and making serious profits. Not many I knew wanted to get another account to play on the same server to have multiple alts, it was getting pricey to do that and many like myself didnt want to out of principal due to the 1 toon per server BS. I later buckled and ended up having 3 accounts before NGE screwup.

Interesting note to the EQ2 crafting. Must have been one of those good on paper ideas. It got old quick, interesting idea but poor execution.

Greyform_sl said:

Knowing who is pulling their weight on a DPS heavy fight is pretty important info. Why on earth would you not want to know if your build or rotation was not optimised? What you're saying sounds a lot like "if I suck I don't want anyone to know I suck, including myself".

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pretty much

LachiusTZ_sl said:

The answer to your question is, ironically, in the post you quoted.

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lol

LachiusTZ_sl said:

The answer to your question is, ironically, in the post you quoted.

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Depends entirely on your role in a given encounter whether or not that is appropriate - I've seen assholes literally boot people from a group because they were "too low of DPS" while they were doing all the damn crowd control for the group. (Even more than once in later days EQ1 with actual enchanters getting booted for low DPS...) Or other similar stuff.

Or people bitching that they're not getting all their buffs on trivial mobs to epeen up a few more DPS on a trash mob.

I'd personally much rather see an "APM" type meter for members of my group rather than DPS - I want to know who's actually going to be grabbing an out of control mob quickly and doing something about it versus who's sitting on their ass with autoattack on and overpowered gear for the encounter who's watching TV or otherwise distracted where they're actually a liability to the group.

Encounters are designed to have dps races and players have adjusted. Until the focus shifts and dps checks aren't a road block players will use it as the only measuring stick.

Personally I'm done with any game that requires perfect victory tuning in their end game. Just not fun anymore.

They'll have to change the scope of the game to deliver that new sort of content. Kill mob get loot is always going to simplify into a dps check because it can be simplified into a dps check. If you want various ways to shine you need various gameplay elements.

Wildstar looks interesting in that regard. At least with Settlers, Scouts, and Scientists they're going to TRY to create a layer of gameplay beyond kill mob get loot. Construct forward encampment, Explore weakspot, Construct BFG3000, Kill Mob, Get Loot?

Eh, it's progress in the genre. I admit I wanna see if the practice matches the principle. MMO's are going to have to grow and incorporate gameplay elements beyond FPS for dummies. That's basically all they are anymore. Slow paced, latency unrestricted FPS's with persistient stats that require the execution of predetermined group strategies.

Edit: IMHO beyond prew-prew spaceships that's why Eve was such a sleeper hit. They incorporated a RTS into their game in a pretty clever way. It's not like no one has been trying, or it's some great mystery at this point what has to happen to advance the genre.

Kedwyn_sl said:

Encounters are designed to have dps races and players have adjusted. Until the focus shifts and dps checks aren't a road block players will use it as the only measuring stick.

Personally I'm done with any game that requires perfect victory tuning in their end game. Just not fun anymore.

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DPS checks get replaced with resist checks, I think. Careful bringing up resist gear around here.

A lot of this thread is simply:

Geezer 1: Fuck your GPS with voice and check out these beautiful Rand McNally maps. You gotta trace your route yourself and use paper to write it down. No more frilly live turn by turn you pansies.

Geezer 2: No, fuck you! These are original sea charts from the Santa Maria and hand drawn maps with miles scaled to hands!

Edit: I guess my point is Pandora's box is wide open for most of this shit. Good luck squashing it outside of an RP guild in LOTRO where playing a piccolo during the entirety of a fight is more acceptable than asking Fredo Baggins why his fucking DPS was 1/10 of the next highest.

That's a good portion of it, but I also think that a lot of this thread is moving to a different corner of the box and thinking that you're outside of it.

I know it's hard, and I certainly don't know what these guys have up their sleeves, but I would hope (until SoE proves me wrong this August) that there's actually somethingdifferentgoing on.

No levels. No hotbars. No static spawn camps. No peg-in-hole endgame raid content. No more use of the phrase "End Game", No fetch quests. No exclamation points. No stupid ass UI gadgets.

It's hard to force yourself to think outside these paradigms, but I guess I'm just hoping that when they say "different" and "new" that they mean it.

So gw2 minus a hot bar? What in place? Two attacks on mouse buttons? An Xbox controller?

Well

vazdeline_sl said:

Well

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That's a deep subject.

Imagine today's mechanics applied to 70 people in a raid. Who cares if one person fails a void zone check and gets death touched, cleric rezz np.

Gone are the days where bosses put out enough raid damage to run healers out of mana. Now it's just whether they can click names and skills every global cooldown in the right priority.

WoW raiding is highly synchronous finger DDR.

DDR, that discribes it well in my book. Hate raiding in newer games, hell hate dungeons for that matter to a certain degree, both have that same feel to me just dungeon crawl isnt a crawl. Its warp speed!
Hate limits, I quit wow the first time when it took me hour to get a mob X lvls over me due to hard limits it has with mobs X lvls over your lvl. When I had a guild member tell me the game had these limits I just stopped playing. I was used to EQ Necro stomping, wow warlock was just meh.

I hate the exact opposite situation with my warrior. Couldnt solo for shit in EQ but suddenly in WoW I could take several mobs at once! Maybe its not the level difference but class design, hmm...

Mr Creed_sl said:

I hate the exact opposite situation with my warrior. Couldnt solo for shit in EQ but suddenly in WoW I could take several mobs at once! Maybe its not the level difference but class design, hmm...

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Or maybe the experience/leveling design isn't solely based around killing mobs so they were made to be weak pushovers.