Fallout 4

Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Optimal builds are impossible to make right now because we don't know what the perk trees are and one unknown perk with a high SPECIAL requirement in something unexpected will obliterate any well thought out build. And BGS makes nearly no attempt to balance their end-game.

Fallout 4: Perk Chart - Orcz.com, The Video Games Wiki

Ex: CHA has historically been a dump stat. INT is probably a dump stat (since there are no skills). STR has historically been a dump stat.

What if:
Fallout 4: Locomotive - Orcz.com, The Video Games Wikicauses you to gain a stacking movement speed buff everytime you kill someone, such that after a few kills you turn into Rock fucking Lee for five minutes?
Fallout 4: Intimidation - Orcz.com, The Video Games Wikicauses a PBAE charm spell to be cast everytime you kill someone?
Fallout 4: Atomic - Orcz.com, The Video Games Wikicauses you to have double DPS when irradiated?

Any one of these goofy perks would upset a well thought out build, and none of them are even as powerful as Grim Reaper's Sprint was in FO3.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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Er, you know he was talking about FO3 builds, right?
biggrin.png
 
hodj

hodj

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Also I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there is no actual max level cap in Fallout 4. Could be wrong about that, but I think I recall that being stated.

And yep, I remember correctly

Fallout 4 will have no level cap and no hard finish - PC Gamer

So if you level long enough you can max out everything, including all SPECIAL stats.

Vorph_sl said:
Er, you know he was talking about FO3 builds, right?
biggrin.png
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Quaid is, as far as his post seems to indicate, talking about Fallout 4 builds.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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Besides that, you don't know how Endurance works (So you don't know if you should get 10END before leveling) how intelligence really works (It can't just be an XP multiplier right?) or how constraining the level is. You don't know if having sub 3 int/cha will make you a blubbering moron for the entire game like in FO1. You don't know if having 1 STR will make you have a cripple walk.

And worst of all, you don't know what quests there will be that will give you +stats. Oh, you thought you were safe with only getting 8 agi? Well, here's two quests that give +3 AGI total, and a bobblehead to boot. And that +8 luck you took? One of those quests reduces luck by 2, so fuck your build.


My recommendation if you're going in blind? Do what I'm planning. Pick 3 for all stats and then boost AGI and LUCK. Agility is generally the God stat for Fallout3/NV because it governs AP and stealth. I like luck for +crit and whatever magic find does in this game.

If you really care about optimal builds, just change your SPECIAL allocation in the middle of a playthrough. It really doesn't matter because it's a Bethesda game.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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hodj_sl said:
Quaid is, as far as his post seems to indicate, talking about Fallout 4 builds.
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Wow, I guess I need to stop posting while trying to do three other things at the same time. Carry on!


Anyway, PE, AG, and LK look strong as usual. IN seems good for energy weapons (but fuck that on a first playthrough) and what used to be the Science skill. ST and IN could also be very important if the crafting system is the way to go for the best equipment and mods. Definitely going to dump stat EN and CH and hope for the best.
 
hodj

hodj

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Vorph_sl said:
Wow, I guess I need to stop posting while trying to do three other things at the same time. Carry on!
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Nah you're cool. I'm reading powerpoints, listening to a Sam Harris podcast, playing Tales of Zestiria and shitposting all at the same time.

Multitasking is a sign of a large penis irl imo.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Tuco_sl said:
Besides that, you don't know how Endurance works (So you don't know if you should get 10END before leveling) how intelligence really works (It can't just be an XP multiplier right?) or how constraining the level is. You don't know if having sub 3 int/cha will make you a blubbering moron for the entire game like in FO1. You don't know if having 1 STR will make you have a cripple walk.

And worst of all, you don't know what quests there will be that will give you +stats. Oh, you thought you were safe with only getting 8 agi? Well, here's two quests that give +3 AGI total, and a bobblehead to boot. And that +8 luck you took? One of those quests reduces luck by 2, so fuck your build.


My recommendation if you're going in blind? Do what I'm planning. Pick 3 for all stats and then boost AGI and LUCK. Agility is generally the God stat for Fallout3/NV because it governs AP and stealth. I like luck for +crit and whatever magic find does in this game.

If you really care about optimal builds, just change your SPECIAL allocation in the middle of a playthrough. It really doesn't matter because it's a Bethesda game.
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Exactly what I wanted to hear. Thx man.
 
K

Kedwyn

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I really hope they even out the stats some. Previous games had so many useless stats depending on play style and allowing people to pump up useful stats made an already easy game easier.

Balance should be key. So I hope they do give you a cripple walk, make you a retard that can't talk or negotiate or shoot straight if you fuck with things like in previous games.

You simply shouldn't be able to do everything like in the more recent versions with shitty stats in attributes but oh well he put skill points into x so he is now a master. The guy can't fucking talk because he has an IQ of 35 but he can hack a computer terminal or absolutely zero charisma but he can be a master in speech and sell ice cubes to eskimos.

They need to cap what you can spend in skills based on your special. They also need to remove the INT modifier for points gained and make it more of a diminishing return based on all your stats. So removing one stat completely would hurt more than the gain for pumping the other one past 7 or 8.
 
hodj

hodj

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Its not happening.

Might as well go ahead and deal with the reality Bethesda doesn't believe in doing something interesting like that, because they don't.
 
K

Kedwyn

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hodj_sl said:
Its not happening.

Might as well go ahead and deal with the reality Bethesda doesn't believe in doing something interesting like that, because they don't.
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I know. Shit in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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Kedwyn_sl said:
They need to cap what you can spend in skills based on your special. They also need to remove the INT modifier for points gained and make it more of a diminishing return based on all your stats. So removing one stat completely would hurt more than the gain for pumping the other one past 6 or 7.
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There's no skills. Perks have multiple ranks and there's a hard stat req (that I believe increases with rank). So I think you'll get what you want, at least to a certain extent. There's always going to be specializing and min-maxing, which is fine because 6/6/5/5/6/6/6 would be just as boring as the extreme cases where it's a no-brainer to take 1's.
 
Tuco

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It would be funny though, if having zero in the following stats caused:

S: gimp walk
P: literally deaf
E: perm rad sickness
C: 10% of non-critical NPCs refuse to talk to you
I: Retarded speech (via automatic word replacement)
A: no VATs
L: Possibility of critical failures
 
K

Kedwyn

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Vorph_sl said:
There's no skills. Perks have multiple ranks and there's a hard stat req (that I believe increases with rank). So I think you'll get what you want, at least to a certain extent. There's always going to be specializing and min-maxing, which is fine because 6/6/5/5/6/6/6 would be just as boring as the extreme cases where it's a no-brainer to take 1's.
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Yeah I saw the change and I'm hoping it works well but not sold on it. I'm not crazy about losing skill points all together, they really only needed a few tweaks. We'll see how this works out.
 
K

Kedwyn

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Tuco_sl said:
It would be funny though, if having zero in the following stats caused:

S: gimp walk
P: literally deaf
E: perm rad sickness
C: 10% of non-critical NPCs refuse to talk to you
I: Retarded speech (via automatic word replacement)
A: no VATs
L: Possibility of critical failures
Click to expand...
Could have some fun with zero luck. Birds shit on you from time to time. Stop in town and stand still and dogs try and lift their leg on you. Gun will sometimes go full Bug's Bunny. Every so often you mistake the stim pack for some crazy ass med that fucks up your vision.

No agility, in addition to no vats you could stumble or fall from time to time. Lock picking would be almost impossible. Can shoot straight. Capped repair ability and construction also capped.

Intelligence, can't form coherent sentence. Hacking would be almost impossible. No perks for speech, fucked on prices etc.

List can go on and on for the others.

You can certainly make it so people don't want to drop them to nothing.
 
hodj

hodj

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Creslin_sl said:
\

Oh its happening, just only later on in mods.
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It'd be nice but I'm not holding my breath.

On the skill point changes: Its the exact same thing but faster than the old system. In the old system when you were between 25/50/75/100 you were dumping points into the skills for no increased benefit until you hit those tiers. So they just did away with that aspect of it.

Personally I prefer it, since we know Bethesda isn't going to be putting many "halfway between 50 points and 75 points" locks in the game any fucking way.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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I'll kind of miss skill bobblehead/book/magazine min-maxing though. Makes me wonder what there will be for loot that isn't guns and armor and crafting junk. I assume bobbleheads for SPECIAL, but will there be things that give free increases to perk ranks, etc.?
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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I don't mind the skill point change. The Fallout skill point system was not clever or interesting for a gameplay perspective and after so much time in FO3 I'm glad to leave it.

The only gap it creates for me is the lack of skill books in the world providing the player a gameplay-impacting reward. I don't know if they have added a replacement for this, but for me, character building from completing quest objectives + exploring areas is the optimal way to improve your character (more so than getting XP from mobs and leveling naturally).
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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I look forward to all of you, especially Tuco, bitching how the game mechanics can be broken like a twig.

It's a Bethesda game ffs, if you go in armed with experience, the game will fall apart on its own.
 
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