Final Fantasy VII Remake

Utnayan

Utnayan

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Pyros said:
Took Dark Souls as an example because it was the first game that popped in my head that was almost entirely combat.

That said, FF7 is at most 15hours of story, quite likely less than that, and everything else is battles. And I mean the original, complete game. JRPGs are 70+% combat. Obviously the memorable parts are the story, characters and environements but most of what you're doing while playing the game is fighting enemies, which is why most of them have random battles and a bunch of them require that you fight a certain amount to keep up your levels so you can fight the mandatory bosses(so even games that let you skip battles either by having the battles being visible on the map or offering items to skip battles early-ish will still require you fight x amount of monsters constantly unless you use some cheese strat like you see often in speedruns and such).

FF games are heavily padded by combat, especially the older ones. If you don't count combat, I doubt a single one of them is over 20hours and a bunch are probably under 10hours. Ironically the more modern ones would probably be higher as they put more emphasis on cutscenes and running around than fighting.

So it's a terrible argument was my point. Saying "oh well they padded the numbers with more combat and I don't count combat as content" is a stupid take when that's every FF ever made, including golden age ones. It's possible they inflated it MORE THAN USUAL, but that's not really what you were saying earlier.
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Yeah I should have stated that more clearly. Due to the nature of this episodic full price times whatever release BS and the Demo leak, I get the feeling they are going to pad the shit out of battles that should end far sooner than they will and say "See? 60 hours!". I get the random battles, regardless of JRPG genre I still never counted that as content - I counted it as a grind/level gate. I have always looked at content as what was created. Levels/Maps, Bosses and encounters (Non random, but static) Story, side quests, etc. The attributes in a game that require man power to create. Not sets created and then dynamic/random placement by AI into a world. That's copy paste in my book and gets old (At least for me it does)

As an example, Witcher 3. That, to me, was 60 hours of content. Statically created, hand written, hand populated, carefully executed, mapped out wonderfully, and tons of original things to do. Combat wasn't a huge deal within but it was a part of it.
 
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Merrith

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I don't trust their 60 hour estimate. But what would be a good amount of main story time to meet minimum requirements? I've stated if I get 25-30 hours of main story I will be more than fine with the price tag. Hell I researched what FF6 cost new back in the day on the SNES and found that it was $80 at release.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Merrith said:
I don't trust their 60 hour estimate. But what would be a good amount of main story time to meet minimum requirements? I've stated if I get 25-30 hours of main story I will be more than fine with the price tag. Hell I researched what FF6 cost new back in the day on the SNES and found that it was $80 at release.
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I would say 30 hours, depending on how it's presented. It has to be original. Which is hard in this case because it's a remake and they are writing in story here that was never addressed in the original, but this is what SE is saying. But when compared to the leak, that doesn't add up. That's where my hitch is. That and wondering how all of a sudden SE is capable when no other quality game dev can do it in that short of a time frame from a stop / start 3 years ago, and SE is already proven completely incompetent in their other FF releases and time frames. Just looking at FF15 alone was 40 hours and that took 10 years and 2 stop starts and a complete revision from FF Versus XIII (Which if you look at the Versus game play trailers, all those assets and character arcs/builds were there already)

My question is how does anyone expect 60 hours in 3 years based on the earlier fact? Everyone doubts that and knows that's bullshit, but SE is saying "Yep! 60 hours."

That ALONE should throw up a red flag.
 
Merrith

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Utnayan said:
I would say 30 hours, depending on how it's presented. It has to be original. Which is hard in this case because it's a remake and they are writing in story here that was never addressed in the original, but this is what SE is saying. But when compared to the leak, that doesn't add up. That's where my hitch is. That and wondering how all of a sudden SE is capable when no other quality game dev can do it in that short of a time frame from a stop / start 3 years ago, and SE is already proven completely incompetent in their other FF releases and time frames. Just looking at FF15 alone was 40 hours and that took 10 years and 2 stop starts and a complete revision from FF Versus XIII (Which if you look at the Versus game play trailers, all those assets and character arcs/builds were there.... My question is how does anyone expect 60 hours in 3 years based on the earlier fact?
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I think the time factor is more relevant. Not that we shouldn't pay attention to troubles certain companies have had lately with big releases, etc. But XV is a totally different project from Remaking 7. Kitase hasn't really been this involved in a game for awhile, has he? But I agree that anyone expecting 60 hours in 3 years is a little out there. Maybe with all the side stuff included, but even that may be stretching it. I just don't buy that the leaks cover "everything". Granted I'll probably play the game a little slower and fully explore everything than others will, too.
 
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Pyros

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Oh yeah as I said before I don't trust their estimates at all, I never trust any of them, it's just even if they pad the numbers with combat, it's not different than the usual FF, and FF games have always been heavy on combat, whether you consider it padding or not. Hell a bunch of the older games were "surprisingly" short.

Chrono Trigger for a standard clear is only ~30hours. There's more content than that in replayability if you want to see the many endings and stuff, but at its core, it's a relatively "short" game by today's standards. FF7 is only a 40hour game total(a lot more if you do chocobo racing and the optional bosses and stuff like that, but I think that's again a bit besides the point). And out of these times, combat is at the very least half of it, most likely more.

So if they get like 25-30hours out of Midgard only, and it doesn't feel too much like forced padding, that's a pretty good amount. Maybe you(general you) don't feel 25-30hours is worth 60bucks and I can totally see that, but I haven't minded it for some games personally, although it's genre dependant.

Personally I'm more worried about the quality of the future releases rather than this one. I think this one will be pretty good and would be worth my money if they released on PC(since they don't though I'm not gonna bother) but the future ones, I'm not too sure, even if the first sells well. Regardless since I'm not buying it now and buying it in like 1+year, I'll have plenty of time to see and hear what's it's actually worth and wait for price drops or whatever.
 
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mkopec

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Ritley said:
By that metric dark souls don’t have any content. I’m struggling with how dumb of a statement this is, you are usually better than this.
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Or take a game like FF tactics or Ogre Tactics where some battles were like 30-45 min... In fact the battles WERE like 90% of the game 1% cut scenes, and 9% menus.
 
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Malakriss

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Until the JP Scroll Glitch was found, the FFT battles themselves were 90% Accumulate.
 
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Ritley

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Merrith said:
I don't trust their 60 hour estimate. But what would be a good amount of main story time to meet minimum requirements? I've stated if I get 25-30 hours of main story I will be more than fine with the price tag. Hell I researched what FF6 cost new back in the day on the SNES and found that it was $80 at release.
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I hope it’s not 60 hours, ain’t nobody got time for that
 
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Ritley

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Malakriss said:
Until the JP Scroll Glitch was found, the FFT battles themselves were 90% Accumulate.
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Accumulate, scream, yell, and charm. Sometimes attacking your own team and healing, depending on the job you were leveling . Occasionally throw in stealing shit
 
a c i d.f l y

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Merrith

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Ritley said:
I hope it’s not 60 hours, ain’t nobody got time for that
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Oh, I'd have time for it.

JP Scroll Glitch for Tactics is the single best thing I've ever seen to make a game have tons of replay ability for me.
 
Chris

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Ritley said:
Aeris doesn’t exist in this game, fucking weebs won
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I don't get it, Aeris sounds so much better.

Aerith is a better translation?? In Japan, Terra and Lightning are called Tina and Claire for fucks sake.
 
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Chris said:
I don't get it, Aeris sounds so much better.

Aerith is a better translation?? In Japan, Terra and Lightning are called Tina and Claire for fucks sake.
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Tina and Claire are so much better lol.

Also I hope there's a huge uproar and they totally change classics combat to actual turn based. I know 0% chance lol
 
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Utnayan

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bigmark268 said:
Tina and Claire are so much better lol.

Also I hope there's a huge uproar and they totally change classics combat to actual turn based. I know 0% chance lol
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I hope there is a huge uproar and SE never touches episodic content again and is such a huge backlash that it makes Battlefront 2’s MTX debacle look like a popcorn fart.
 
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Hateyou

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Utnayan said:
Hateyou Hateyou Pyros Pyros Ritley Ritley

This is complete apples to oranges here with game content and combat relative to Dark Souls and Final Fantasy. Dark Souls is a game where the combat is the central focus and combat fights and bosses ARE the content. The story is non existent and no one cares. The content IS fighting the difficult bosses. It's a staple to the series.

This is an RPG. The content is the story, questing, dialogue options, atmosphere, character development, side character arcs, varying areas, side quests, side questing unlockables, story connection points, varied and multiple original POI's, NPC Interactions, mini games, and yes, combat, which is also a mechanism used to consume ALL of the before mentioned.

If you honestly think an RPG stating 60 hours of content should consist of 40 hours of banging your head against the wall in artificially long boss fights in a limited zoned environment to hit a game played metric, I am not sure what to tell you. These two example genre's are COMPLETELY different and it is NOT a one size fits all.

Christ, using that metric I can create a game with one room that states I have 50 hours of content in it while you sit AFK for 49.9 hours banging away at a 10 Zillion HP Emperor Ssraesshza in a fucking corner.

Come on.

So yeah if you are going to count content as SE taking a month to inflate the living shit out of boss fights from 5 minutes to 40 minutes, and now it's a 40 hour game instead of 15, all the power to you in that pander. Or while I am at it just throw 500 trash mobs in the way of a player for a force clear in a 24x24 tiled section to get from point A to point B and I suppose you can call that "Content" as well right? Maybe I can toss you in on a huge map while you run from point A to point B and it takes 45 hours. 45 hours of content right?
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I did not compare it to Dark Souls. I compared it to Final Fantasy 7. It’s apples to apples. No one dismisses massive portions (Combat, story, cinematic, side games, everything you mentioned included.) of any game when they are talking about total game playthrough time. Ever.

Also, don’t think I’m defending this episodic garbage. I’m just saying, dismissing portions of gameplay just so the overall playthrough time fits into this estimated time someone made up is retarded.
 
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Raes

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While Ut is a bit repetitive and ranty on the subject, I get what he's saying. How can anyone expect the company that gave us the abominations that were the 13's and 15 to somehow take a small portion of FF7 and actually make it as long as the entire original game? (And, I assume, do that with every episode too.) I agree, combat counts, but optional mini-games and bullshit repeatables don't. And no random encounters? Wtf? No true turn based combat, knew that shit was coming, but no victory fanfare? That's like having no chocobos. Why??

But, what do I know, the last Square game I really enjoyed was The Last Remnant. (Other than ff14, of course.)
 
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