Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Chris · Feb 16, 2022

Ehrgeix said:
Re: Endwalker,

I think it’s easy to wrap up stories with new mechanics, time travel, and memory loss. But it’s just not satisfying for me and was a disappointment after shb. I hope 6.1 onwards is better.

They painstakingly integrated that stuff though, it wasn't out of nowhere.

They literally put you in a classroom at the start of the expansion to teach you about how memory loss works, linking it to the ARR character reset and the Sharlayan political subplot before using it on Emet/Hythlodeus/Fandaniel. It also explains Fandaniel's personality change as his soul does remember since he died and came back while undying Emet's is still wiped.

Time travel is a three expansion set up in the raid side stories. A solar powered tower that can open gateways to other worlds, a robot primal that can travel through time, a robot alien that can travel through space/dimensions. Then you have an entire expansion about the consequences of integrating and using that technology, before finally using it yourself.

Dynamis is limit breaks and explains the need to sunder everyone... they could have just said that Metieon was using the aether of dead worlds instead of dyanamis... I don't think this really matters. It just gives that really cool limit break moment in the final trial and how you and Zenos fight beyond mortal limits.

Like these things are not just Deus Ex Machina stuff, it adds more to the story in multiple ways.

Chysamere · Feb 16, 2022

Sylas said:
Ok help me out because i'm not seeing anything different between Standard Type and Legacy Type movement settings as far as autofacing or being able to ignore facing. Literally the only difference I am seeing is it changes what the S key does, from backing up slowly to turning your character around and running towards you.

Is there some other settings I need to change?

UPDATE: Are you sure you guys don't have this mixed up? cus my standard is working how you say legacy is supposed to work. I'm super confused right now.

UPDATE #2: I figured it out, you fuckers who don't like how Standard works, don't use mouselook. how the fuck do you play games like this? do you have 10 fingers on your left hand? how the fuck do you activate skills and utilize only WASD to move and not use your mouse to control the direction you are facing? what the fuck are you doing with your other hand? are you jerking it to the catgirls or what? It's either that or you move with WASD and you use your fucking mouse to click abilities on your hotbar. Until you post a pic of your left hand with 10 fingers on it, those are the only 2 options I see on how you can possibly use kb hotkeys while simultaneously using kb for WASD.

When it comes to attacking things my character behaves the exact same way with Standard and Legacy, until you add mouselook into the equation, where the game works how every other game works in Standard, which is the way you describe legacy should work. Legacy works in the way opposite that you describe.

In both systems:
If I uncheck "automatically face target when using an action" then I get an "out of range" error message when my target is behind me. (autoattack will still hit even at things behind me lol)
If I leave that checked and don't use mouse look, my character will automatically turn around and face my target and use the skill.

In Standard: If I use mouselook (which I always do at all times), then my skill will activate in the direction I am facing without facing me towards the target, and still hit my target behind me. This is how you guys describe legacy is supposed to work.

In legacy: Mouselook does nothing but move the camera, I still automatically turn to face the target when i use skills.

Both systems: When moving AND using mouselook they both behave the same way, you attack the direction your character is facing. the only difference is what the S key does.

In standard, without using mouselook but using WASD to move: Ok this is how you describe standard works vs Legacy. I get what you guys were saying now, but wtf you guys have problems. see update #2 above. I can't imagine a scenario where you would ever do this.

In all scenarios, other than what the S key does, Legacy works the same or worse than standard (such as any time you stop moving and try to use a skill on something you aren't facing), except if you are moving but not using mouselook, which is literally never. you would never do this. Standard Movement master race.

If you mean, how do I make my character back up, then the answer is the S key. My question is when do you ever really do this, in any game? maybe for like repositioning to take a screenshot or something, oops overran a thing you gotta click on the ground but your character model is in the way, back up 1 foot? I press S I guess. It's not something you really use much at all, and never in combat. I mean, how often do you find yourself walking backwards in real life? I cannot imagine a single scenario or telegraph where walking backwards is the quickest route out of an AOE. If aoes are as active as you guys are suggesting (i've watched the videos of end game things, doesn't look like anything too crazy compared to other games) then you are already always moving anyway, why would you stop and back up? just keep moving forward and mouse turn, it's literally instant, just as fast as changing your keybind to make the S key act like a controller stick which is all legacy does.

I honestly cannot recall any game where your character moves at full speed in reverse, you always move slower backing up, there's nothing new here. Why would you think you should be able to back up out of AOEs in this game if you cant in any other one?

Go a target dummy with standard camera on. Attack it a few times with abilities, then run away from it while spamming abilities. Then run through it to the other side and keep spamming your abilities. Then run backward through it again. At various times you should be forcibly interrupted in your movement to turn and face the dummy to attack it.

Now do the same thing with legacy. Your movement will never be interrupted, you will never be force-turned, your movement will be smooth as butter, in addition to being able to use S to run backward, thus, not having to use the camera at all for any of the movement, allowing you to focus on other things.

This is a MUST WATCH for this:

sakkath said:
The main difference for me is as I mentioned earlier -> when you are running with monsters following you in a dungeon and you are using ranged attacks on the monsters behind you. This is something I am doing every day pulling dungeons as a tank. With legacy your movement is tied to the camera so when your character turns around to shoot it doesn't affect your movement at all, you keep running through the dungeon as intended. With classic it can stuff your movement up because your character turns around to shoot, and if the monster is out of range your character stays facing backwards and you start running backwards. Even with monsters in range I noticed this happens occasionally too but its pretty inconsistent.

This is also correct as demonstrated in this video

Sylas · Feb 16, 2022

sakkath said:
The main difference for me is as I mentioned earlier -> when you are running with monsters following you in a dungeon and you are using ranged attacks on the monsters behind you. This is something I am doing every day pulling dungeons as a tank. With legacy your movement is tied to the camera so when your character turns around to shoot it doesn't affect your movement at all, you keep running through the dungeon as intended. With classic it can stuff your movement up because your character turns around to shoot, and if the monster is out of range your character stays facing backwards and you start running backwards. Even with monsters in range I noticed this happens occasionally too but its pretty inconsistent.

No. I doesn't. I just spent over an hour testing this as I detailed in my post. Standard does not function any differently than legacy in this regard unless you do not use mouse look. If you do use mouselook like every human being on earth, the only difference between the two movement abilities is when you stop moving. With standard you will continue to attack the direction you are looking regardless if the mob you have targeted is behind you or not. With legacy, you will turn the around and face the mob. Legacy works the way you think that standard works and vice versa if you use mouselook. If you dont use mouse look then post a picture of your left hand so I can see your 10 fingers on it.

Chysamere said:
Go a target dummy with standard camera on. Attack it a few times with abilities, then run away from it while spamming abilities. Then run through it to the other side and keep spamming your abilities. Then run backward through it again. At various times you should be forcibly interrupted in your movement to turn and face the dummy to attack it.

Now do the same thing with legacy. Your movement will never be interrupted, you will never be force-turned, your movement will be smooth as butter, in addition to being able to use S to run backward, thus, not having to use the camera at all for any of the movement, allowing you to focus on other things.

This is a MUST WATCH for this:

This is also correct as demonstrated in this video

I did all those things you asked bro. It doesn't work like that at all. at no time was I ever turned around, forcibly interrupted in my movement, or anything of the sort.

All I see demonstrated in that video is a mouthbreathing keyboard turner who doesn't use mouselook. Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

seriously what do you guys use for video capture nowadays? i'm going to record some video to show you. I'm sure at some point in the 12 years this game has been out that it may have worked the way you think it does, before you swapped to legacy mode, but I assure you it does not do that now.

edit: I'm doing everything the guy did in that first video with standard movement, i'm not holding down 5 buttons. that guy is an idiot.

edit2: I went to out and tested this again on real mobs instead of dummies, specifically trying to imitate pulling in dungeons (ranging a mob and continue to run while ranging it) Both in Standard and Legacy mode your character will turn around to face the mob once you've run out of range, but as long as the mob continues to follow you and remain in range you will continue to throw your axe behind your head and attack things that follow you. This is the first time I've see that auto-facing thing like you guys were talking about, but again, it happens in both modes, and only when you are out of range (mobs in the open world kept leashing back, that's why they stopped following)

Chysamere · Feb 16, 2022

Sylas said:
No. I doesn't. I just spent over an hour testing this as I detailed in my post. Standard does not function any differently than legacy in this regard unless you do not use mouse look. If you do use mouselook like every human being on earth, the only difference between the two movement abilities is when you stop moving. With standard you will continue to attack the direction you are looking regardless if the mob you have targeted is behind you or not. With legacy, you will turn the around and face the mob. Legacy works the way you think that standard works and vice versa if you use mouselook. If you dont use mouse look then post a picture of your left hand so I can see your 10 fingers on it.

I did all those things you asked bro. It doesn't work like that at all. at no time was I ever turned around, forcibly interrupted in my movement, or anything of the sort.

All I see demonstrated in that video is a mouthbreathing keyboard turner who doesn't use mouselook. Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

seriously what do you guys use for video capture nowadays? i'm going to record some video to show you. I'm sure at some point in the 12 years this game has been out that it may have worked the way you think it does, before you swapped to legacy mode, but I assure you it does not do that now.

edit: I'm doing everything the guy did in that first video with standard movement, i'm not holding down 5 buttons. that guy is an idiot.

You think you are, but you aren't. Xenos is facing AWAY From the dummy the entire time he is hitting it. You are being turned to face the dummy every time you attack, then manually looking away. These are not the same thing.

Sooner or later standard movement will get you killed. This is a when, not an if. It will jerk control of the character away from you briefly, move you in a direction you don't want just enough to fuck you over.

Sylas · Feb 16, 2022

Chysamere said:
You think you are, but you aren't. Xenos is facing AWAY From the dummy the entire time he is hitting it. You are being turned to face the dummy every time you attack, then manually looking away. These are not the same thing.

Sooner or later standard movement will get you killed. This is a when, not an if. It will jerk control of the character away from you briefly, move you in a direction you don't want just enough to fuck you over.

I am facing away from the dummy the entire time I am hitting it. My camera doesn't spin towards the dummy, neither does my character. My movement keys still move me in the direction that indicates on my screen. So what are you saying is happening? it happens so fast that my screen just doesn't display my character turning around? also it happens so fast that my movement is never interrupted? So then, how does it impact me at all?

And again, the only time my character was jerked around was in Legacy mode when I stopped moving, then my character would autoface the mob (because i was giving it no directional input, mouse only controls your camera in legacy). Notice in his video he is constantly moving and using mouselook while showing off he can hit things behind him? Yeah it is identical with standard movement.

Chysamere · Feb 16, 2022

Sylas said:
I am facing away from the dummy the entire time I am hitting it. My camera doesn't spin towards the dummy, neither does my character. My movement keys still move me in the direction that indicates on my screen. So what are you saying is happening? it happens so fast that my screen just doesn't display my character turning around? also it happens so fast that my movement is never interrupted? So then, how does it impact me at all?

And again, the only time my character was jerked around was in Legacy mode when I stopped moving, then my character would autoface the mob (because i was giving it no directional input, mouse only controls your camera in legacy). Notice in his video he is constantly moving and using mouselook while showing off he can hit things behind him? Yeah it is identical with standard movement.

Are you making sure you have auto-facing on even in Legacy? You are supposed to leave it turned on in both versions.

But anyway that's correct, even if you don't notice it, each time you use an ability, your character is being forced to look in the direction of the target briefly with standard movement. This is a fundamental difference between legacy and standard - standard forces you to look at the target, legacy does not. It's not just a cosmetic difference, they function differently.

This impacts you in two ways. One, many, many bosses have mechanics that will only hit you if you are looking at the boss at the time the mechanic goes off. If you are using standard movement, you /have/ to stop dpsing for half a second or so while the mechanic goes off or you risk getting hit by it. If you use legacy, you will never be looking at the boss using the technique in the video, so you can dps and have a 0% chance to be hit. Even if they look the same, they are not functioning the same.

Second, You may not have noticed it yet, but there will come a time when you want to run out of an AOE centered on the boss. Lets say you run right to get out of it, while hitting your abilities. If when you hit your ability you're just baaaaarely out of range of the boss, or you're not facing exactly the right way, control of your character will be briefly hijacked to move to back to the left to be in range and be facing the boss, and in that moment you will lose your chance to dodge the AOE and be hit by it. Happened to me all the time until I switched to legacy.

Also if you are running away from an NPC, and throwing tomahawks at it, for example, it's far, far smoother to do this with legacy movement. When using standard you are either jumping, spinning and shooting in the air before spinning the camera back to continue your momentum (like in wow) or your character is stopping, turning and firing, before you spin around again continue running. It's all done without having to stop or look at the NPC at all with legacy, you can literally shoot your range attacks out your ass while running away.

Sylas · Feb 16, 2022

is fraps still a thing? What do you kids use nowadays? I'm going to record and show you what i'm seeing.

Actually you live in my time zone. tomorrow after work come on disc I will share my screen and you can see whats happening, and maybe explain wtf you are saying because none of that is happening. Except for the out of range thing, and that happens in both legacy and standard modes.

Chysamere · Feb 16, 2022

Sylas said:
is fraps still a thing? What do you kids use nowadays? I'm going to record and show you what i'm seeing.

Actually you live in my time zone. tomorrow after work come on disc I will share my screen and you can see whats happening, and maybe explain wtf you are saying because none of that is happening. Except for the out of range thing, and that happens in both legacy and standard modes.

You live in Japan?

Edit: These should be your character configuration, targeting settings

Chysamere · Feb 16, 2022

Sylas said:
is fraps still a thing? What do you kids use nowadays? I'm going to record and show you what i'm seeing.

Actually you live in my time zone. tomorrow after work come on disc I will share my screen and you can see whats happening, and maybe explain wtf you are saying because none of that is happening. Except for the out of range thing, and that happens in both legacy and standard modes.

Found the easiest way to demonstrate. With standard movement, start facing a dummy. Run through it, W key only, and use an ability it once you are past it on the other side. Your character should pivot, turn around and start running the opposite direction, effectively 180ing.

Now do it with legacy. Your character will continue running in the initial direction even as you hit the ability button, go past the dummy, and out the other side, never changing direction.

xmod2 · Feb 16, 2022

As a melee, I have muscle memory to strafe run out of things to maximize uptime on the boss, not to turn my camera and run 'forward' out of aoes. Just a 45 degree camera turn and strafe/run. Many times prior to legacy I'd be strafing out of an AE and hit an ability only to have my dude stop and/or start running back into the boss. This hasn't happened since turning on legacy.

100% of fights that matter in this game are basically you running around avoiding mechanics inside a giant boss hitbox. It just let's you completely ignore character orientation and focus on mechanics / rotation.

Besides, people are missing the real #1 reason to use legacy though, which is jump spinning.

Chysamere · Feb 16, 2022

xmod2 said:
As a melee, I have muscle memory to strafe run out of things to maximize uptime on the boss, not to turn my camera and run 'forward' out of aoes. Just a 45 degree camera turn and strafe/run. Many times prior to legacy I'd be strafing out of an AE and hit an ability only to have my dude stop and/or start running back into the boss. This hasn't happened since turning on legacy.

100% of fights that matter in this game are basically you running around avoiding mechanics inside a giant boss hitbox. It just let's you completely ignore character orientation and focus on mechanics / rotation.

Besides, people are missing the real #1 reason to use legacy though, which is jump spinning.

Ahh yes, the classic dragoon jump, spin, backflip to gain 15 yards for free

localhost · Feb 16, 2022

I don't even understand using key to move

bolok · Feb 16, 2022

Chysamere said:
Ahh yes, the classic dragoon jump, spin, backflip to gain 15 yards for free

I've got a zillion years of muscle memory from wow, so i do that in std mode like a hunter disengaging forward. Doing the same in legacy hurts my brain. That said pretty much the only reason i don't use legacy. Def switch to legacy when playing ranged classes when i remember to.

Malakriss · Feb 16, 2022

Long before FF14 we were making fun of keyboard turners, doesn't matter if it's A&D or arrow keys.

Backpedaling vs running backwards shouldn't be tied to a mode but sadly is and that's the crux of the problem.

Folanlron · Feb 16, 2022

Use Legacy when I'm Tanking or Melee DPS...

Standard for when I'm playing Black Mage though cause of the way the casting system works >.<

phisey · Feb 16, 2022

That shit is lowkey console controller faggotry. Reject it with all your being.

Mouse und keyboard uber alles.

Folanlron · Feb 16, 2022

Don't use a controller .. Shit don't even use a mouse.

Pasteton · Feb 16, 2022

Seen controller bois with week 1 or day 1 savage clears on YouTube . Made me feel less pc master race

Folanlron · Feb 16, 2022

It all depends on what you're use too.

The game is setup for either way, why does it matter ? as long as you're doing the content correct.

Sylas · Feb 16, 2022

No the thing is everyone is saying it works one way, when it clearly does not.

Legacy or standard has zero impact on auto-facing in combat. All they do is control your movement. Legacy turns wasd into the left stick from a controller. That's it. That is all it does. Your mouse is then right stick, it controls your camera. It turns the control scheme into a top down isometric style arpg like other non 1st/3rd person console games.

Standard is the standard first/third person control scheme every pc gamer is accustomed to.

Autoface target is the option that makes your character turn and autoface enemies. If you turn it off you can't hit things behind your character, so you leave it on.

In both modes, autoface works the same way, it will autoface your enemy unless you input a character movement command. In legacy, movement is controlled exclusively by wasd, so unless you are pressing one of those buttons you will turn and autoface. In standard, character movement is controlled by a combination of mouse and/or keyboard wasd. If you are not mouselooking to control your left/right turning AND you are not inputting a wasd input, your character will autoface the enemy.

If you are concerned about your character autofacing, then clearly standard is superior. I have to stop mouselooking AND stop moving for autoface to kick in, where in legacy i have to always be pressing wasd.

The only advantage of legacy is it is easier to recover from an autoface happening because s runs you toward your camera/w runs you away from it so it seems like its not impacting you, but it is.

Ive played around with this enough that I actually would like to use legacy mode now, except it completely sucks/autofaces you any time you are not moving. Standard is jut superior in this regard.

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Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Chris

Potato del Grande

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master

Sylas

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master

Sylas

Chysamere

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Chysamere

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xmod2

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localhost

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bolok

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Folanlron

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