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Jx3_sl said:

Jesus fucking christ make a "Should you tip the waitress and how much thread" make sure the word "thread" is there. That's the most important part.

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I accept the terms of your derail cessation.

I see your point now, structure not intent though ironically it wasn't as clearly spelled out until a cumulative look. Doesn't align in a 'perfect' analogy as basing % to %, but for intents and purposes it is my view that the comparison does stand as an adequate example of demonstrating (dis)satisfaction through willingness to spend. You reach a cap on how to purchase in a restaurant setting due to the nature of the goods thus the reason for variation in tipping. Further, the nature of the setup is entirely different in that you consume goods prior to pay, hence why tip is generally contingent on experience and you wouldn't pay for it along with good priors (at least presumably not in a chain restaurant like previously discussed) prior to consumption/experience. If you don't like my comparison because it didn't fit into your perfect analogy, too bad don't like it the view and the framing still stands as intended.

I've never been good with math or anything, so can someone explain to me, those 18% are already included in your bill? So, what if you get crappy service? Here around, you get paid flat rate. Tips are your own, so if you do a great job, people will love ya, harass ya and abuse ya, but tip fucking awesome. If you're crappy and don't improve, you'll be out of a job real soon due to complaints made.

Sithes_sl said:

Tipping is essentially a pay-for-performance business design it isn't capped as a set wage is, it is similar to piece rate work, or commission systems. Gratuity generally scales with service, hence the difference between an 18% tip or a 30% tip. The tipping debate tends to arise when amounts less than 15% are discussed. Are you a proponent of if you go into a department store and try on 2 pairs of shoes you should buy 3 pair? The commission salesperson generally makes less than minimum wage to be compensated throughearnedcommission, by taking up a salesperson's time you are increasing their workload and as they are not compensated a standardized wage should you not buy more/higher priced items to see them adequately paid for their efforts? What seems a lifetime ago I did do sales and I appreciate good salespeople now which means I will buy from/spend higher if someone comes across as a good salesperson just as I will tip higher with escalating service.

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There are usually four types of arguments always made in this debate.

The first type of person is cheap and typically a grumpy neckbeard that starts off pissed off they have to pay YOU to do your job when the company should. These people usually evolved into the type of person who leaves those stupid business cards with something snarky on it when they stiff a server. Or the alternative to this is people who are socially awkward who feel intense anxiety when they leave a tip because they feel like they are judging other people and get nervous.

The second type, is you, who try to apply some logic to it. They typically begin to define the word gratuity and then tell everyone that it was originally meant for X and that we're all fools for being duped by society. The feel like it's perfect logic to explain why they left $5 on a $150 check because websters dictionary said something.

The third type are Europeans who think the whole thing is stupid and think waiters should just get paid a certain wage and be done with the whole thing. They are typically confused with the whole thing. Most of the time they feel superior to everyone else because of this.

The fourth type are the people who just tip somewhere between 15-25% and feel happy with that choice because they know thats the cost of eating/drinking out and that society has dictated that it be so. These people typically feel like it's a waste of time to come up with excuses or get angry about leaving an extra 10-20$ on a check.

I tip 10% for average service, 15% for good service.

Why the hell should I pay more than the advertised price for my food or drinks just because YOU have a shitty service job? Maybe you should have graduated High School or had some motivation and you wouldn't be working here. You deserve an extra $10 or $20 because you came past my table once every half and hour and flipped your hair or flirted with someone? I am perfectly capable of ordering my drinks at the bar, in fact, I do it all the time. It's one of my skills.

I tip 20% if the server / bartender is a friend of mine.

I went to Denmark on a business trip in October and had dinner with some customers. When I tried to leave a tip after the dinner one of the clients I was eating with picked up the money and told me "don't bring your corrupt american customs to our country." He said it with a smile as he handed the money back to me. I had honestly forgotten that tipping was an almost purely american thing and is almost seen as I guess insulting in other countries.

I have no problem with tipping, if that is the way their pay is set up. In places where there isn't tipping that missing 'cost' is built into the price of the goods anyway. Its just an argument that comes down to do you think someone will work better if their commission is somewhat based on performance vs. should it just be treated like any other job where you're at risk of getting fired if you put out a consistently bad effort.

http://www.jetfeteblog.com/expert-ad...eign-countries

can totally tell who did not work during HS and college based on this argument lol.

Evernothing_sl said:

I tip 10% for average service, 15% for good service.

Why the hell should I pay more than the advertised price for my food or drinks just because YOU have a shitty service job? Maybe you should have graduated High School or had some motivation and you wouldn't be working here. You deserve an extra $10 or $20 because you came past my table once every half and hour and flipped your hair or flirted with someone? I am perfectly capable of ordering my drinks at the bar, in fact, I do it all the time. It's one of my skills.

I tip 20% if the server / bartender is a friend of mine.

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Maybe things are different in Canada, not sure. But a lot of waiters are college students. Has nothing to do with what you just stated (get a HS diploma), maybe you are getting waiters confused with flipping burgers. In general working in the food industry is a hard job with long hours with no breaks or incredibly small ones. The ONLY benefit to waiting tables, is you can make above average hourly if you work at a halfway decent restaurant compared to most minimum wage jobs. I waited tables 4 years through college, hating my life when I stepped into the restaurant, until I stepped out of the restaurant. I stuck with it because I was good at it, and because I was good at it, I made good tips. It was an exhausting job that required infinite amounts of patience due to the amount of dumb shit people dish out, along with people viewing you as a servant, thus treating you like one (IE shit).

Anyways, my day of getting up in arms about this shit are over. I still get the shudders when I go out to eat with the family at a restaurant and seeing the staff running around like crazy keeping up with the patrons. Tipping 10% on OK service is being a cheap fuck though, hope you are not a regular at places you eat. You will get identified, your service and food will get fucked with.

Draegan_sl said:

There are usually four types of arguments always made in this debate.
The second type, is you, who try to apply some logic to it. They typically begin to define the word gratuity and then tell everyone that it was originally meant for X and that we're all fools for being duped by society. The feel like it's perfect logic to explain why they left $5 on a $150 check because websters dictionary said something.

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$150 at "Applebees"? It can get higher with drinks but I'm not feeding Bebe's kids here. Since you've figured me out though, tell me where I said I leave a 3% tip or anything resembling such? Service blows to that extent and I would leave without a tip, see previous example of waitress given (okay well she got $1 basically because of her sob story). You completely fuck up a simple cheap meal out with an absolutely pathetic service offsetting any ability to enjoy the goods themselves and yet you should be tipped? Yes lets tip you well that way if I ever return you can try to wait on my table again rather than another waitress who provides good service and is well tipped accordingly every other time. We're not discussing decent dining up to and beyond $150 are we? If we are, as I previously stated, I don't apply it to those establishments, reason being they hire competent staff (which is why my customary tip is raised 20-30% as base) or at the very least I've not had service to such a shit extent as you occasionally get at chain joints. Meal out for two at these chains/similar spots run anywhere from $30 to roughly $80 with average tip between $10-$14 dollars at the high end, that's a 12-17% tip, higher for better service.

I'm not claiming you're being "duped by society" spend your money how ever you want, point I make is that in my opinion the sense of set gratuity entitlement is ridiculous. If charges are added to my bill for items I didn't order nor receive I wouldn't pay for it, as such service is what gratuity covers why pay gratuity when you don't receive the service? Example being those rare cases where I somehow find myself apparently in the role of therapist and listening to how you hate your job, that you have sick/autistic/whatever kids and been on your feet 12 hours while trying to enjoy a meal (again previous example) fuck off you had one job, take the order, bring the order out, occasionally check on the table but otherwise get the fuck so we can enjoy our meal.

The pay structure in American restaurants (have no idea what it's like in other countries) is based on an assumption of 15%-20% tip. If there were no tip, restaurant owners would have to pay their service staff a more competitive hourly wage, and would then increase prices across the board for menu items.

Not tipping is just cheap, it has nothing to do with any moral, social or economic justification. It's riding on the coattails and enjoying the lower food prices driven down by the vast majority of people who do tip regularly.