Gender and Race Equality

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Rezz

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I'm not sure how this is even a thing, really. Socially I'm ok with trannies etc. getting called whatever pronoun they want and not getting shit on for using the wrong toliet. But when it comes to competitive sports or any event where physicality is a defining paradigm? Yeah absolutely not. There is a strict biological (regardless of the mental which is the entire basis for transgenderism in the first place) difference between men and women/boys and girls. Letting guys with superior muscle/bone structure for specific physical activities participate as if they were women (who do not have that baseline muscle/bone structure) is ridiculous. Lets see how any W-t-M trannies compete in say, Football or any other physically demanding sport. Can't wait for the incredible butthurt at being cut from a team because they are physically -not- the same.

In fact, I'm almost positive that there are lawsuits and shit exactly doing that, somewhere =\

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AladainAF

AladainAF

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Rezz_sl said:
I'm not sure how this is even a thing, really. Socially I'm ok with trannies etc. getting called whatever pronoun they want and not getting shit on for using the wrong toliet. But when it comes to competitive sports or any event where physicality is a defining paradigm? Yeah absolutely not. There is a strict biological (regardless of the mental which is the entire basis for transgenderism in the first place) difference between men and women/boys and girls. Letting guys with superior muscle/bone structure for specific physical activities participate as if they were women (who do not have that baseline muscle/bone structure) is ridiculous. Lets see how any W-t-M trannies compete in say, Football or any other physically demanding sport. Can't wait for the incredible butthurt at being cut from a team because they are physically -not- the same.

In fact, I'm almost positive that there are lawsuits and shit exactly doing that, somewhere =\
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But this is the exact problem. You can't be ok with trannies getting called what they want and not getting shit on for using the wrong toilet, at the same time turning your discrimination on when it comes to participating in sports.

If you're fine with dudes deciding to be chicks then that goes all the way. You don't make exclusions. So no, you tell yourself you're ok with it, but you're really not. It's like the "I'm not racist, I have black friends, but..." comments.

Things like this show how ridiculous the entire thing is.
 
Furry

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It's too early this olympics, but I really look forward to seeing women start to get shut out with the next olympics. In some sports, 50 year old men could crush women. I fully expect some countries to just all out embrace it as a fuck you we getting our golds, I also fully expect them to completely not give a fuck and not even kinda try to make them look like women.
 
Rangoth

Rangoth

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AladainAF_sl said:
But this is the exact problem. You can't be ok with trannies getting called what they want and not getting shit on for using the wrong toilet, at the same time turning your discrimination on when it comes to participating in sports.

If you're fine with dudes deciding to be chicks then that goes all the way. You don't make exclusions. So no, you tell yourself you're ok with it, but you're really not. It's like the "I'm not racist, I have black friends, but..." comments.

Things like this show how ridiculous the entire thing is.
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I don't see them as the same at all. I'm ok with trannies too, I have zero issue with it socially. But the point about sports is right. Men are physically stronger than woman, on average. Maybe there needs to be a rule that you can't "cross-compete" until you've been on the hormones for X amount of years or had surgery. If I just decided I wanted to be a girl tomorrow and then immediately signed up for womans sports that would be big-time cheating, even if I was 100% honest and had whatever mental affliction causes the gender dis-morphia crap. It's the same way we criticize athletes for steroid usage even though we could have also taken the approach of "it's fair so if you want to compete you have to do them too".
 
Furry

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Rangoth_sl said:
I don't see them as the same at all. I'm ok with trannies too, I have zero issue with it socially. But the point about sports is right. Men are physically stronger than woman, on average. Maybe there needs to be a rule that you can't "cross-compete" until you've been on the hormones for X amount of years or had surgery. If I just decided I wanted to be a girl tomorrow and then immediately signed up for womans sports that would be big-time cheating, even if I was 100% honest and had whatever mental affliction causes the gender dis-morphia crap. It's the same way we criticize athletes for steroid usage even though we could have also taken the approach of "it's fair so if you want to compete you have to do them too".
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Obviously you're not okay with trannies if you are calling these women male, fucking shitlord. Call them what they are, women. Let them compete with what they are, women. Anything else is fucking sexist against women.
 
AladainAF

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Rangoth_sl said:
I don't see them as the same at all. I'm ok with trannies too, I have zero issue with it socially. But the point about sports is right.Men are physically stronger than woman, on average.Maybe there needs to be a rule that you can't "cross-compete" until you've been on the hormones for X amount of years or had surgery. If I just decided I wanted to be a girl tomorrow and then immediately signed up for womans sports that would be big-time cheating, even if I was 100% honest and had whatever mental affliction causes the gender dis-morphia crap. It's the same way we criticize athletes for steroid usage even though we could have also taken the approach of "it's fair so if you want to compete you have to do them too".
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See highlight: But these aren't men. They are women. And you do have an issue with it socially, you are discriminating against them from playing sports with their gender. You're basically forcing a MTF trans to play boys sports, even though they are girls. We're letting them use the women's toilets and women's locker rooms, why are you suddenly going to change to a different litmus test when it comes to sports? You either need to agree or disagree all the way, you can't say "Well they are 'half girls'" or "half boys". They simply cannot be two different things. If you're going to require hormones for X amount of years or had surgery, then this is the test you also should apply to restrooms and lockerrooms.

Mind you: I share much of what you guys are expressing here, but am playing a bit of a devils advocate.
 
Void

Void

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As mentioned, eventually the Olympics will just be all "men's" sports. They won't be called men's sports, obviously, it will just be non-gendered, but only those originally born men will win. They'll even win things like synchronized swimming and that floor gymnastics thing with the ribbons because if enough people with male musculature decide they really like doing those things, eventually they'll dominate the event. Same with every high school and college sport everywhere.

It will be interesting to see how this conflicts with the current mindset of appease everyone, when eventually you'll have to piss someone off.
 
AladainAF

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Yes, one of the things most of us reasonable people have been saying is that the whole trans movement hurts women considerably more than men. There are far more MTF than FTM. It's the same thing as "equality" which is why women really don't want it. They say they do, but when push comes to shove (registering for the draft, etc) they don't want it.
 
Rangoth

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Furry_sl said:
Obviously you're not okay with trannies if you are calling these women male, fucking shitlord. Call them what they are, women. Let them compete with what they are, women. Anything else is fucking sexist against women.
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Ohh my god go fuck yourself douchenozzle. I could care less if someone was a tranny. Just because I don't use the proper fucking pronoun doesn't mean I want to discriminate or champion inequity for them. God you fucking people are pathetic.
 
Rangoth

Rangoth

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AladainAF_sl said:
See highlight: But these aren't men. They are women. And you do have an issue with it socially, you are discriminating against them from playing sports with their gender. You're basically forcing a MTF trans to play boys sports, even though they are girls. We're letting them use the women's toilets and women's locker rooms, why are you suddenly going to change to a different litmus test when it comes to sports? You either need to agree or disagree all the way, you can't say "Well they are 'half girls'" or "half boys". They simply cannot be two different things. If you're going to require hormones for X amount of years or had surgery, then this is the test you also should apply to restrooms and lockerrooms.

Mind you: I share much of what you guys are expressing here, but am playing a bit of a devils advocate.
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Yes and no.....as I said I am ok with them playing in the sport of their identified gender, after X amount of time on whatever hormone and physiological transition is fair. I'm not a doctor so I don't know what that is. But if I've never been on hormones or anything but day 2 after I "come out"(whatever that means) as a member of the opposite gender, my body has not yet adjusted to the point where it would be fair or equal. I really do see it like steroids. Anyone can take steroids and get stronger, yet it's this huge scandal when an athlete does it because it puts them on uneven footing compared to everyone else. I see a M2F, or it's reverse, as unequal footing until the body has been allowed to undergo the necessary changes.

It's either that or we all agree a sport is a sport and anyone of any gender can all play in the same league. But as long as the leagues are separate then there must be some type of definition of what makes a man(able to play in mens league) and woman(able to play in womans league) and, in my opinion, it cannot simply be mental due to the physical nature of sports. Fuck, even golf separates.
 
AladainAF

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Rangoth_sl said:
Yes and no.....as I said I am ok with them playing in the sport of their identified gender, after X amount of time on whatever hormone and physiological transition is fair.
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Are you okay with a Black, Kenyan tribal man competing on a long-distance run against white europeans? BecauseBlack Kenyan tribal men can run full speed for hourswithout issue. If you're okay with this, I'm not sure why you wouldn't be okay with a woman competing against other women.

Rangoth_sl said:
But if I've never been on hormones or anything but day 2 after I "come out"(whatever that means) as a member of the opposite gender, my body has not yet adjusted to the point where it would be fair or equal.
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But why the push for bathrooms and lockerrooms? Why are we willing to say "Well my muscles are like a male and so much stronger than a womans and thus I shouldn't be able to compete in womans sports", but at the same time say "My facial features and junk are still male, but I should have every right to go into the female locker room and bathroom".

It's a blatant double standard. Agian, it's really all or none.
 
Tanoomba

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I gotta admit, Aladain is bringing up some good points. I'm interested in seeing how this is going to pan out.
 
Rangoth

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AladainAF_sl said:
Are you okay with a Black, Kenyan tribal man competing on a long-distance run against white europeans? BecauseBlack Kenyan tribal men can run full speed for hourswithout issue. If you're okay with this, I'm not sure why you wouldn't be okay with a woman competing against other women.



But why the push for bathrooms and lockerrooms? Why are we willing to say "Well my muscles are like a male and so much stronger than a womans and thus I shouldn't be able to compete in womans sports", but at the same time say "My facial features and junk are still male, but I should have every right to go into the female locker room and bathroom".

It's a blatant double standard. Agian, it's really all or none.
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I am ok with black tribes competing in sports against white euro males. But I see that as a teribble analogy so Im not really going to address it.

To your other point about bathrooms and such(beyond the fact that I personally dont give a flying fuck who pees and shits where, but for the sake of conversation) I think that treads a fine line for two reasons.

1.) I do believe in Legal equality of treatment and human rights, but bathrooms are not that. I think private stuff should be able to dictate what they want. If people dont support it they will change. For instance clubs/bars ive been too in major cities no one ever cared when trans people went in to whatever bathroom they identify as, but im sure in small town iowa or montana they may not be so welcome. I dont see that as a problem but maybe im just harsh.

2.) i think what this entire debate comes down to for me is what defines "trans". I will concede that you cant have half-half treatment, but i cant just claim "ohh im trans" and join womans sports to kick ass and go take dumps in their bathrooms or whatever. Im just arguing that to get whatever "rights"(which we may not agree on specifics) that trans people have/need/deserve there should be some level of committed transition beyond the clothing. Im not a doctor, as i said before, but i dont think it needs to be fully swapping sex organs nor can it just be claiming your trans. Its a grey area but if we are going to give the, special rights then there should be a clear definiton of what it means not just to identify as the other sex, but some level of transition that is completed


Whatever though. My personal beliefs on this and race and gay and all that shit is who the fuck cares. We need to stop treating every group as different special snowflakes. See my comment earlier about just having all sports leagues open to all people... Trans, girl, black, martian, dog and then teams pick and hire the best people to win. BUT....if we are going to play by the rules out there today, which currently separate men and woman, then im just saying we should define what woman means. Im not claiming it should be defined by birth, but i also dont believe its fair just to say "ohh im trans" and join a female league when they are currently seperated for a reason. Hence lets define what "woman" is, maybe it means on hormones for 6 months? I dunno......

typed on ipad, sorry for mistakes
 
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