Get a free Kyle Rittenhouse at Culver's

Lightning Lord Rule · Nov 14, 2021

TBT-TheBigToe said:
What's the criteria for acceptance in your movement and do you pass that criteria? I don't care about what you reject in this instance, I want to know what you are looking for. What is "Good Enough" for acceptance and do you, yourself, measure up to your own standards?

This is a totally fair question, and I can't really answer it right now to a large extent. It's certainly far easier to be a critic than to build things, and it's not my goal to be a critic only. It's just incredibly difficult to find things that aren't subverted in some way already, especially from easily accessible sources... or sources that 'normies' would find credible.

Like, Parler for instance. That was a scam from the beginning. Same thing with GETTR, from what I understand anyway. Fox news has proven to be scam, I'm convinced it was always just a ploy to separate the people who didn't ID as left from their cash in a cynical exercise, IE they don't really believe what they say for the most part, with a couple exceptions like Tucker Carlson. There's practically an endless list of this kind of thing. This is Conservative Incorporated's game: provide a false alternative for the disillusioned so they can never gravitate to a legitimate and effective alternative.

So, IMO, it's always prudent to ID the people on this list and exclude them from any chance at credibility. You can't start building anything if you're employing snakes and scorpions to build your base.

Hoss · Nov 14, 2021

Fucker said:
Also...LMAO. I re-watched the video and forgot about the black guy who narrowly missed getting his wings. I bet he can still smell the gun powder.

I didn't realize he had shot at him till this past week. I thought that was the reason Kyle was checking the gun. Maybe he had tried to shoot and it didn't go bang. But now I'm wondering if he he was checking it because of the miss. You know, like "goddamnpieceogshitgun why'd you miss?"

It's very curious that he's not up for attempted murder on that guy. Was that ever discussed?

TBT-TheBigToe · Nov 14, 2021

Lightning Lord Rule said:
This is a totally fair question, and I can't really answer it right now to a large extent.

And that is a fair and totally acceptable answer. In fact, that might be the most honest answer any of us can give in these times because if you had turned that question around on me that would have pretty much been my answer as well.

Fucking Clownworld, man. The whole thing fucking sucks.

BoozeCube · Nov 14, 2021

Arbitrary said:
I don't even know what the fuck this tweet is supposed to be about. The trial is still going on with closing arguments Monday. What's the problem with how things are going?

And again, if Tyrone Rittenhouse shot a child rapist threatening to kill him the Right would fucking line up to defend him. He'd have so much more mainstream support if he was black. I know we talk about about how racist the Left is but come the fuck on people. You really think we're all going to leap to defend the arsonists and the child rapists just because of skin pigmentation?

Tyrone Rittenhouse wouldn't have been able to shoot anything but an innocent bystandar because he would be trying to fire the rifle sideways.

rhinohelix · Nov 14, 2021

Fucker said:
Seems like a reasonable explanation. Also...he froze because AR's are loud as fuck when one gets uncorked near you and you don't have hearing protection on. Gaige's neurons were breakdancing in his head the moment skateboard guy was shot. After that, he was in pure panic mode and wondering WTF to do.

Also...LMAO. I re-watched the video and forgot about the black guy who narrowly missed getting his wings. I bet he can still smell the gun powder.

It's not a given/easy as people may believe to point a gun and shoot someone for just everyone. My first few Training and Tactical/Range Officers spent a long time talking about mental preparation. This was for Sheriffs Office, mind you but in Lt. Col. David Grossman's book "On Killing" he talked about studies indicating it was super hard train soldiers initially to shoot at the enemy; in WWII something like 20% of soldiers did most of the killing and 80% privately surveyed didn't shoot to kill at all. By Vietnam these numbers had changed dramatically: 95% shot to kill due to changes in training, i.e. shooting at human shaped targets, etc.

Now, Grossman has a ton of stuff that in his conclusions that make one doubt him as a source: He wrote that book in the mid-90's and hates FPS games, calls them "murder simulators" because it gets you used to "shooting people" ala Binger, blamed them for Columbine, etc. And while I think he's wrong in his conclusions on all of those points, his initial premise, that most people are highly inhibited against taking other human life (he argues that some people are inherent potential sociopaths that don't have this inhibition) I think does bear out. Unless one is trained or prepared to take a life, or is a natural sociopath, there is a good likelihood one might freeze when trying to pull the trigger.

TLDR: I agree with the supposition fuckface froze.

BoozeCube · Nov 14, 2021

Adebisi said:
I remember when I could sniff out a bullshit fake thing on the internet pretty quick

I just can't tell anymore

Intrinsic said:
Just be thankful you have no idea who this is, because then you'd know. Or not. Who knows?

Isn't she that cunt who got famous on twitch for yelling at people to give her $5 instead of eating food?

Masakari · Nov 14, 2021

TBT-TheBigToe said:
And that is a fair and totally acceptable answer. In fact, that might be the most honest answer any of us can give in these times because if you had turned that question around on me that would have pretty much been my answer as well.

Fucking Clownworld, man. The whole thing fucking sucks.

That's what happens when fringe politics take the spotlight, honks for everyone.

Control · Nov 14, 2021

Lightning Lord Rule said:
This is a totally fair question, and I can't really answer it right now to a large extent. It's certainly far easier to be a critic than to build things, and it's not my goal to be a critic only. It's just incredibly difficult to find things that aren't subverted in some way already, especially from easily accessible sources... or sources that 'normies' would find credible.

Like, Parler for instance. That was a scam from the beginning. Same thing with GETTR, from what I understand anyway. Fox news has proven to be scam, I'm convinced it was always just a ploy to separate the people who didn't ID as left from their cash in a cynical exercise, IE they don't really believe what they say for the most part, with a couple exceptions like Tucker Carlson. There's practically an endless list of this kind of thing. This is Conservative Incorporated's game: provide a false alternative for the disillusioned so they can never gravitate to a legitimate and effective alternative.

So, IMO, it's always prudent to ID the people on this list and exclude them from any chance at credibility. You can't start building anything if you're employing snakes and scorpions to build your base.

You should be thinking of all of these things as products instead of whatever you're thinking they are now. Fox is a product, built to cater to a target market, and it ultimately is used to further the interests of anyone with control of its levers. It's what we should expect of any product. You might be able to have an ideologically focused product in the beginning through the force of founder personalities, but if it has any aspirations of growth or profit, it will eventually be subverted.

You want a "pure" Twitter? You're on it. Sites like this can do what they do because they fly under the radar and are largely populated by people who value critical thinking. Blow this place up to the size of Reddit, and you'd just have another Reddit. Could someone like Trump do it? Maybe, but if so, why doesn't it exist yet? Where's Muskbook or Thielchat?

Masakari · Nov 14, 2021

Control said:
You should be thinking of all of these things as products instead of whatever you're thinking they are now. Fox is a product, built to cater to a target market, and it ultimately is used to further the interests of anyone with control of its levers. It's what we should expect of any product. You might be able to have an ideologically focused product in the beginning through the force of founder personalities, but if it has any aspirations of growth or profit, it will eventually be subverted.

You want a "pure" Twitter? You're on it. Sites like this can do what they do because they fly under the radar and are largely populated by people who value critical thinking. Blow this place up to the size of Reddit, and you'd just have another Reddit. Could someone like Trump do it? Maybe, but if so, why doesn't it exist yet? Where's Muskbook or Thielchat?

100% - People put a lot of faith in Fox News because of what Tucker chooses to cover, which is on the mark (most of the time) for the Right. But people need to also remember what they did on the night of November 3rd with calling Red States in favor of Biden to sell the steal. As you say, just another tool for those in control of it.

BoozeCube · Nov 14, 2021

You know people write what Tucker reads. He is a dancing monkey, I am amazed by how many people swear by him. Tucker makes media jews cash money, I am willing to bet at least 1/2 the shit he reads out he had no idea of 5 minutes before the segment. He is just John Oliver with a jew boss who wants easy access to conservative cash.

I don't know I guess I just don't trust journalist or talking mouth pieces as much as I don't trust career politicians.

Rajaah · Nov 14, 2021

Masakari said:
The biggest test for the Redpilled Right is going to be when the establishment shifts course to ostracize the Left instead of the Right. Will the Right forget about how corrupt the Media, Corporate America, & Government are because they are on "their side"? That's the dilemma former counter-culturists on the Left are dealing with right now. Forgetting all about the evils and corruption of Corporate America & the Government because the system makes them feel validated.

Yeah, pretty much. The corporate media went from being fully in the tank for The Right 15-20 years ago to being fully in the tank for The Left. I thought it was a recent development but now I'm thinking it actually happened back before the 2008 election because the media sure was pro-Obama. It just didn't become blatantly obvious on every level until 2016 that the media is fully corrupt and can't be trusted an inch. Sure they backed up Obama way more than was normal, but the minute Trump showed up they went into a record-setting partisan overdrive.

It's weird for me to see lefty friends who for years didn't trust the media and thought our elections needed work, now saying that the media is trustworthy and our elections are fine. The counter-culture Vermont latte-sipping commie leftists who wanted Diebold out of voting and mainstream media accountability for YEARS are now the first ones lining up to mock those things. The same counter-culture that said in the 2000's that the establishment was trying to scare us into submission... are now the people running around terrified with double masks on, bleating about "Trump supporters" getting them sick.

The complete reversal is actually stunning and I imagine it's a lot moreso for someone who got caught off-guard by it just this year. Lot of people don't have time or the brainpower to figure shit out as quick as people on this board tend to. All over the place people are waking up to how scummy the media is over the Rittenhouse trial. And yeah, there's a sense of "welcome to the party pal" or "it took them this long to figure it out?" but give 'em some slack. Most people are busy taking their damn kids to school every day (and trusting the school system to not be an indoctrination camp). 2020 and 2021 have been an absolute shock to the system for normies.

Anyway, not sure what my point is here, except that I was tight with a lot of lefties in 2004 and their attitudes/positions were so close to people on this board in 2021. Those same people are now a bunch of zombies. The Establishment uses up whichever party is more useful at the time, drains it like a vampire, and switches to the other one when it's prudent. They turned the GOP into a dried husk by using George W to kill its credibility, now they're using Biden to enrich themselves the same way and it'll again have the end result of killing one party's credibility.

One more thing though. I'm not sure the Establishment and their corporate media is gonna be so quick to jump back over to the red team, unless they get a bought and paid for R president in there in 2024. The thing is, the Left has proven WAY more open to having their rights trampled on, the constitution shredded, and forming mobs of violent foot soldiers to carry out the Establishment's will. Conservatives in the 2000 never really went for those things, even at the height of the "be afraid and spy on your neighbors" shit.

Also I fully believe conservatives believed the media in the early 2000's because they were hoodwinked, and once they came to their senses there was a lot of condemnation of Bush/Cheney from that side for lying about the WMDs and all that. The Left in the modern era, meanwhile, isn't hoodwinked or bamboozled. They legitimately believe that their bullshit is real, and you can show them video proof that it isn't and all they'll do is find excuses to make up. They don't want to know the truth, they like wallowing in cognitive dissonance. Another reason why they make way better foot soldiers than the red team ever did.

I think the Establishment and the media are going to stay right where they are for now, but if they dump Biden and start propping up some GOP candidate really hard, we'll know who to avoid like a plague.

Gavinmad · Nov 14, 2021

Rajaah said:
Yeah, pretty much. The corporate media went from being fully in the tank for The Right 15-20 years ago to being fully in the tank for The Left. I thought it was a recent development but now I'm thinking it actually happened back before the 2008 election because the media sure was pro-Obama. It just didn't become blatantly obvious on every level until 2016 that the media is fully corrupt and can't be trusted an inch. Sure they backed up Obama way more than was normal, but the minute Trump showed up they went into a record-setting partisan overdrive.

Ask yourself if GW could possibly be as stupid as the media portrayed him. The media has been in the bag for the Democrats since well before 2008.

Intrinsic · Nov 14, 2021

Rajaah said:
Yeah, pretty much. The corporate media went from being fully in the tank for The Right 15-20 years ago to being fully in the tank for The Left. I thought it was a recent development but now I'm thinking it actually happened back before the 2008 election because the media sure was pro-Obama. It just didn't become blatantly obvious on every level until 2016 that the media is fully corrupt and can't be trusted an inch. Sure they backed up Obama way more than was normal, but the minute Trump showed up they went into a record-setting partisan overdrive.

It's weird for me to see lefty friends who for years didn't trust the media and thought our elections needed work, now saying that the media is trustworthy and our elections are fine. The counter-culture Vermont latte-sipping commie leftists who wanted Diebold out of voting and mainstream media accountability for YEARS are now the first ones lining up to mock those things. The same counter-culture that said in the 2000's that the establishment was trying to scare us into submission... are now the people running around terrified with double masks on, bleating about "Trump supporters" getting them sick.

The complete reversal is actually stunning and I imagine it's a lot moreso for someone who got caught off-guard by it just this year. Lot of people don't have time or the brainpower to figure shit out as quick as people on this board tend to. All over the place people are waking up to how scummy the media is over the Rittenhouse trial. And yeah, there's a sense of "welcome to the party pal" or "it took them this long to figure it out?" but give 'em some slack. Most people are busy taking their damn kids to school every day (and trusting the school system to not be an indoctrination camp). 2020 and 2021 have been an absolute shock to the system for normies.

Anyway, not sure what my point is here, except that I was tight with a lot of lefties in 2004 and their attitudes/positions were so close to people on this board in 2021. Those same people are now a bunch of zombies. The Establishment uses up whichever party is more useful at the time, drains it like a vampire, and switches to the other one when it's prudent. They turned the GOP into a dried husk by using George W to kill its credibility, now they're using Biden to enrich themselves the same way and it'll again have the end result of killing one party's credibility.

One more thing though. I'm not sure the Establishment and their corporate media is gonna be so quick to jump back over to the red team, unless they get a bought and paid for R president in there in 2024. The thing is, the Left has proven WAY more open to having their rights trampled on, the constitution shredded, and forming mobs of violent foot soldiers to carry out the Establishment's will. Conservatives in the 2000 never really went for those things, even at the height of the "be afraid and spy on your neighbors" shit.

Also I fully believe conservatives believed the media in the early 2000's because they were hoodwinked, and once they came to their senses there was a lot of condemnation of Bush/Cheney from that side for lying about the WMDs and all that. The Left in the modern era, meanwhile, isn't hoodwinked or bamboozled. They legitimately believe that their bullshit is real, and you can show them video proof that it isn't and all they'll do is find excuses to make up. They don't want to know the truth, they like wallowing in cognitive dissonance. Another reason why they make way better foot soldiers than the red team ever did.

I think the Establishment and the media are going to stay right where they are for now, but if they dump Biden and start propping up some GOP candidate really hard, we'll know who to avoid like a plague.

You know that 20 years ago was 9-11 right? And the endless "religion of peace," all the Dan Rather fake memos, and so forth and so on?

Fucker · Nov 14, 2021

Gavinmad said:
Ask yourself if GW could possibly be as stupid as the media portrayed him. The media has been in the bag for the Democrats since well before 2008.

Media has been far left for decades.

GW isn't dumb, but he's been called mentally inert by a lot of people. He kept his brain in neutral and left it there.

Shmoopy · Nov 14, 2021

Can we get a fact check on this?

Big Phoenix · Nov 14, 2021

Fucker said:
GW isn't dumb, but he's been called mentally inert by a lot of people. He kept his brain in neutral and left it there.

There was that whole Iraq thing then staying in Afghanistan once OBL was nowhere to be found.

Monumentally stupid choices for America.

Rajaah · Nov 14, 2021

Gavinmad said:
Ask yourself if GW could possibly be as stupid as the media portrayed him. The media has been in the bag for the Democrats since well before 2008.

It was mainly late night talk hosts that portrayed him as stupid. In the tank for him, at least from 2001 to 2005, were CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and EVEN MSNBC. It wasn't until Katrina when all of a sudden they unanimously dumped him and dropped that entire thing at his feet.

It's like the powers that be used him to get a bunch of oil money in the Middle-East and dramatically improve the surveillance state, while simultaneously elevating the opposing party for when they shifted over to that one.

Yeah, George W got screwed-over by the media in the grand scheme of things, but not in day-to-day coverage from 2001-2005. They were absolutely in the tank for him during those times. Coverage of Gore, Dean, and Kerry were like 80% negative from most of those networks. I mean Howard Dean yelled loudly at one point and the national media apparatus treated it like it was the most embarassing thing a candidate had done in decades. See also 1988, the media was fully in the tank for Bush Sr when they kneecapped Dukakis.

Intrinsic said:
You know that 20 years ago was 9-11 right? And the endless "religion of peace," all the Dan Rather fake memos, and so forth and so on?

The media put a massive emphasis on people "supporting the troops" and being patriotic or unpatriotic. It was a bit of a test run for the modern era I assume, and had little to do with left vs right but rather getting people to "other" each other.

The Dan Rather fake memo's end result made Bush actually look good. The media's story wasn't that Bush avoided service, it was that Rather made a mistake and the media should "do better" and be fairer to George.

Like I said, they didn't drop W until late 2005. Soon as Katrina happened the media completely lost their shit. It's vaguely similar to what happened with Afghanistan a couple months ago. Very briefly the media went full Rodney King Beating on Joe Biden and I thought some sea change was occurring, but now they're back to defending him.

TBH half of this doesn't make much sense to me but I see a lot of parallels between now and the early 2000's, with the general roles reversed between the two parties, and outsiders still on the outs. Back then it was Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean, now it's Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump.

Masakari · Nov 14, 2021

Rajaah said:
Yeah, pretty much. The corporate media went from being fully in the tank for The Right 15-20 years ago to being fully in the tank for The Left. I thought it was a recent development but now I'm thinking it actually happened back before the 2008 election because the media sure was pro-Obama. It just didn't become blatantly obvious on every level until 2016 that the media is fully corrupt and can't be trusted an inch. Sure they backed up Obama way more than was normal, but the minute Trump showed up they went into a record-setting partisan overdrive.

It's weird for me to see lefty friends who for years didn't trust the media and thought our elections needed work, now saying that the media is trustworthy and our elections are fine. The counter-culture Vermont latte-sipping commie leftists who wanted Diebold out of voting and mainstream media accountability for YEARS are now the first ones lining up to mock those things. The same counter-culture that said in the 2000's that the establishment was trying to scare us into submission... are now the people running around terrified with double masks on, bleating about "Trump supporters" getting them sick.

The complete reversal is actually stunning and I imagine it's a lot moreso for someone who got caught off-guard by it just this year. Lot of people don't have time or the brainpower to figure shit out as quick as people on this board tend to. All over the place people are waking up to how scummy the media is over the Rittenhouse trial. And yeah, there's a sense of "welcome to the party pal" or "it took them this long to figure it out?" but give 'em some slack. Most people are busy taking their damn kids to school every day (and trusting the school system to not be an indoctrination camp). 2020 and 2021 have been an absolute shock to the system for normies.

Anyway, not sure what my point is here, except that I was tight with a lot of lefties in 2004 and their attitudes/positions were so close to people on this board in 2021. Those same people are now a bunch of zombies. The Establishment uses up whichever party is more useful at the time, drains it like a vampire, and switches to the other one when it's prudent. They turned the GOP into a dried husk by using George W to kill its credibility, now they're using Biden to enrich themselves the same way and it'll again have the end result of killing one party's credibility.

One more thing though. I'm not sure the Establishment and their corporate media is gonna be so quick to jump back over to the red team, unless they get a bought and paid for R president in there in 2024. The thing is, the Left has proven WAY more open to having their rights trampled on, the constitution shredded, and forming mobs of violent foot soldiers to carry out the Establishment's will. Conservatives in the 2000 never really went for those things, even at the height of the "be afraid and spy on your neighbors" shit.

Also I fully believe conservatives believed the media in the early 2000's because they were hoodwinked, and once they came to their senses there was a lot of condemnation of Bush/Cheney from that side for lying about the WMDs and all that. The Left in the modern era, meanwhile, isn't hoodwinked or bamboozled. They legitimately believe that their bullshit is real, and you can show them video proof that it isn't and all they'll do is find excuses to make up. They don't want to know the truth, they like wallowing in cognitive dissonance. Another reason why they make way better foot soldiers than the red team ever did.

I think the Establishment and the media are going to stay right where they are for now, but if they dump Biden and start propping up some GOP candidate really hard, we'll know who to avoid like a plague.

So much truth and forgotten history in this post. Love it.

I don't think there will be a systematic hard flip anytime soon either but anyone that's been paying attention over the past 20 years has seen the hypocrisy and the transition. We've got some dark years ahead.

Arbitrary · Nov 14, 2021

Gavinmad said:
Ask yourself if GW could possibly be as stupid as the media portrayed him. The media has been in the bag for the Democrats since well before 2008.

The smug style in American liberalism

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

Yeah yeah Vox but it's pre-Trump

If there is a single person who exemplifies the dumbass hick in the smug imagination, it is former President George W. Bush. He's got the accent. He can't talk right. He seems stupefied by simple concepts, and his politics are all gee-whiz Texas ignorance. He is the ur-hick. He is the enemy.

He got all the way to White House, and he's still being taken for a ride by the scheming rightwing oligarchs around him — just like those poor rubes in Kansas. If only George knew Dick Cheney wasn't acting in his own best interests!

It is worth considering that Bush is the son of a president, a patrician born in Connecticut and educated at Andover and Harvard and Yale.

It is worth considering that he does not come from a family known for producing poor minds.

George W. Bush is not a dumbass hick. In eight years, all the sick Daily Show burns in the world did not appreciably undermine his agenda.

Intrinsic · Nov 14, 2021

Rajaah said:
It was mainly late night talk hosts that portrayed him as stupid. In the tank for him, at least from 2001 to 2005, were CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and EVEN MSNBC. It wasn't until Katrina when all of a sudden they unanimously dumped him and dropped that entire thing at his feet.

It's like the powers that be used him to get a bunch of oil money in the Middle-East and dramatically improve the surveillance state, while simultaneously elevating the opposing party for when they shifted over to that one.

Yeah, George W got screwed-over by the media in the grand scheme of things, but not in day-to-day coverage from 2001-2005. They were absolutely in the tank for him during those times. Coverage of Gore, Dean, and Kerry were like 80% negative from most of those networks. I mean Howard Dean yelled loudly at one point and the national media apparatus treated it like it was the most embarassing thing a candidate had done in decades. See also 1988, the media was fully in the tank for Bush Sr when they kneecapped Dukakis.

The media put a massive emphasis on people "supporting the troops" and being patriotic or unpatriotic. It was a bit of a test run for the modern era I assume, and had little to do with left vs right but rather getting people to "other" each other.

The Dan Rather fake memo's end result made Bush actually look good. The media's story wasn't that Bush avoided service, it was that Rather made a mistake and the media should "do better" and be fairer to George.

Like I said, they didn't drop W until late 2005. Soon as Katrina happened the media completely lost their shit. It's vaguely similar to what happened with Afghanistan a couple months ago. Very briefly the media went full Rodney King Beating on Joe Biden and I thought some sea change was occurring, but now they're back to defending him.

TBH half of this doesn't make much sense to me but I see a lot of parallels between now and the early 2000's, with the general roles reversed between the two parties, and outsiders still on the outs. Back then it was Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean, now it's Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump.

Yeah, I think we're discussing perception and scale. Depending on what frame you're entering from those examples were either "indicators" or what was happening or "evidence" of what you already knew. Everything around that time period reinforced, to me, what had already been apparent and sliding towards the more extreme place it is now. I'm almost positive the threads exist on this board with everyone's commentary about the media from then.

*edit; I hate to stealth edit but those Dan Rather memos I don't think played in the way you think. They are some of the first examples I can think of where they were completely wrong but more concerned with the "spirit" of the memo that made them right. Not going to Google so feel free to prove me wrong, but I don't remember a single piece of shit actually apologizing for any of that and people still quote Rather like he's some authority.

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