GMO, Monsanto, organic dreadlocked nonsense?

Lleauaric · Jan 11, 2014

You guys are confusing macro with micro. Im not concerned about feeding 7.5 billion people. I'm concerned about making the best choices for my family. And the best choice is local and organic. Its in everyone's best interest who is able to remove themselves from the industrial food paradigm. And no, you don't even have to remove anyone from their cubical worlds. Co-ops, farmers markets, Organic stores and a host of other things make all this extremely available to whoever wants it.

A better personal choice is to eat local and organic. Even if every single american decided to eat better and we as a nation stopped eating mass produced industrial food, it wouldnt make much difference to the 3rd world Monsanto farmer. Shit, if people in 3rd world countries stopped growing cash crops to be exported, and started growing for local consumption, I think the world would be just fine.

Vaclav · Jan 11, 2014

Mist_sl said:
In the very near future, pretty much every farmer on earth is going to have to pay Monsanto a licensing fee to grow any kind of food at all. This is a really big fucking problem.

And what's only gotten a little airplay is at least one or two cases where Monsanto modifications that they patented became SPONTANEOUS mutations by all evidence and when they found out they still tried to sue. I don't mind too much of their stuff, but that one really irks me since apparently the "signature" that they left on the one breed was literally 1 modified RNA "string" or whatever - One GTCA was a specific letter than in most of the plant species was always A and it was G in that case so they sued since G to them on that "line" of the DNA meant it was trademarked.

Tolerance range on what can be patented should be much wider - if allowed at all - mutation is a pretty amazing thing for how different it can make DNA with just one odd tweak. Or on the reverse how much one odd tweak can make a ton of stuff go wrong. [Case in point my own mutation - oculodigitaldental dysplasia is a pretty small change on a DNA level, but effects most systems in the body to some degree - but it's just a simple 1 DNA marker thats off IIRC what my doc says]

[Note: Don't ask me to quote the article, bro-in-law is a professor in the field somewhat being somewhat hippy (although not blindly stupid) in some sort of engineering involving irrigation and hydro, etc - not sure where he got the info from, but was passed on from him - and not found him lying about sourced stuff before...]

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 11, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
You guys are confusing macro with micro. Im not concerned about feeding 7.5 billion people. I'm concerned about making the best choices for my family. And the best choice is local and organic. Its in everyone's best interest who is able to remove themselves from the industrial food paradigm. And no, you don't even have to remove anyone from their cubical worlds. Co-ops, farmers markets, Organic stores and a host of other things make all this extremely available to whoever wants it.

A better personal choice is to eat local and organic. Even if every single american decided to eat better and we as a nation stopped eating mass produced industrial food, it wouldnt make much difference to the 3rd world Monsanto farmer. Shit, if people in 3rd world countries stopped growing cash crops to be exported, and started growing for local consumption, I think the world would be just fine.

Yes subsistence farming worked so well for centuries especially when used to lift people out of poverty and advance societies.

The United States could probably be self sustaining on organic local farming in SOME areas, but we are pretty unique when it comes to population density, wealth, and capabilities compared to almost everywhere else in the world.

Lleauaric · Jan 11, 2014

Ichu_sl said:
Organic foods tend to taste better because the farmer is growing a better product for a high end market. You can't compare the watery $.99 tomatoes grown for the frozen dinner plebeians with ingredients that go into a $55 plate at the Wynn and say "See, organic tastes better!"

I actually have no idea what organic has to do with what you are saying, now that I think about it. You are just saying high quality products taste better than low quality products.

Some big businesses have manipulated laws with lobbying and watered down what organic was intended to mean, that doesnt mean that being an educated consumer and taking 2 minutes to find out where your food is coming from is either impossible or a bad idea.

Is Organic Food Really The Same As Conventional? | Summer Tomato

The huge variance among farming practices that fit under the organic umbrella is not trivial. By far the largest segment of organic products on the market could be considered industrial organic, and the farms are closer to traditional industrial farms than most of us realize. Large organic farms are typically monoculture fields just like large conventional farms, though more crop rotation is required. Industrial organic poultry and beef farms also look oddly similar to conventional industrial feedlots, even if the animals are eating organic feed. In fact, both organic and conventional industrial farms are often owned by the same mega-corporations, and share the same bottom line of profit. There's no reason to suspect that these industrial organic foods would be markedly more nutritious than conventionally grown foods.

In contrast, smaller biodynamic farms have extensive practices designed to build soil, improve robustness of crops and ensure bio and nutrient diversity. Instead of monocultures, these farms grow huge arrays of different vegetables and fruits. If a biodynamic farm raises animals they are given their natural, preferred diet of grass (for cows) or bugs and seeds (for birds). The animals are treated well and fed well, and are healthier as a result. If you want to learn more about the differences between conventional agriculture, big organic agriculture and biodynamic farming I highly recommend Michael Pollan's excellent book, The Omnivore's Dilemma, and Joel Salatin's latest book, Folks, This Ain't Normal.

All "organic" isnt the same, standards have been manipulated, but that doesnt mean you cant be an educated consumer. The key is to do your homework, to buy local and from trusted sources.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 11, 2014

I like my organic food farmed by someone with hair no shorter than 8 inches, feces used as the only fertilizer and the truck used the ship it must run on bio-diesel. I want to still smell the shit on my food.

Lleauaric · Jan 11, 2014

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
Yes subsistence farming worked so well for centuries especially when used to lift people out of poverty and advance societies.

The United States could probably be self sustaining on organic local farming in SOME areas, but we are pretty unique when it comes to population density, wealth, and capabilities compared to almost everywhere else in the world.

And? What does that have to do with a persons personal choices? Should you buy local and organic food when you can. Yes, you should. I'm not sure where or why you link buying better quality food with re-engineering society.

BTW, if you think that the current industrial food system is sustainable, you are wrong.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 11, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
And? What does that have to do with a persons personal choices? Should you buy local and organic food when you can. Yes, you should. I'm not sure where or why you link buying better quality food with re-engineering society.

Well when a certain threshold of uneducated persons is reached who refuse to eat any food that is engineered (it has been done since the advent of horticulture by the way) for literally no reason other than shit spewed by people who have no idea what they are talking about, it becomes a problem.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 11, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
And? What does that have to do with a persons personal choices? Should you buy local and organic food when you can. Yes, you should. I'm not sure where or why you link buying better quality food with re-engineering society.

BTW, if you think that the current industrial food system is sustainable, you are wrong.

It isn't. Which is why we need genetic engineering.

Are you opposed to engineering animals? If so, you should forfeit any rights you have to modern medicine especially in the field of genetic diseases, because without it there would be very limited treatments.

Ichu · Jan 11, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
And? What does that have to do with a persons personal choices? Should you buy local and organic food when you can. Yes, you should. I'm not sure where or why you link buying better quality food with re-engineering society.

BTW, if you think that the current industrial food system is sustainable, you are wrong.

I regularly buy organic food from local producers. I do this because I love food and I want the highest quality ingredients. In the case of animals, I do this because I think it's important to curb our treatment of food animals. My decision has nothing to do with the fact that these foods are local or organic.

I spend the extra money because good tasting food is important to me in the same way that people still listen to vinyl records on their $1000 1950's headphones. It doesn't mean that this is practical for the vast majority of people. If someone thinks the $.99 tomatoes taste great, they have absolutely no reason to not buy them.

Big Phoenix · Jan 11, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
You guys are confusing macro with micro. Im not concerned about feeding 7.5 billion people. I'm concerned about making the best choices for my family. And the best choice is local and organic. Its in everyone's best interest who is able to remove themselves from the industrial food paradigm. And no, you don't even have to remove anyone from their cubical worlds. Co-ops, farmers markets, Organic stores and a host of other things make all this extremely available to whoever wants it.

A better personal choice is to eat local and organic. Even if every single american decided to eat better and we as a nation stopped eating mass produced industrial food, it wouldnt make much difference to the 3rd world Monsanto farmer. Shit, if people in 3rd world countries stopped growing cash crops to be exported, and started growing for local consumption, I think the world would be just fine.

The hypocrisy of you people really rustle my jimmies. Big talk about "industrial food" and how bad GMOs are but use the fucking internet and every other modern god damn technology. Then you top it off by saying you dont care if other people cant enjoy this better and healthier lifestyle you say is so needed. As long as its feasible for just me I thats all that matters! Fuck everyone else!

Lleauaric · Jan 11, 2014

Big Phoenix_sl said:
The hypocrisy of you people really rustle my jimmies. Big talk about "industrial food" and how bad GMOs are but use the fucking internet and every other modern god damn technology. Then you top it off by saying you dont care if other people cant enjoy this better and healthier lifestyle you say is so needed. As long as its feasible for just me I thats all that matters! Fuck everyone else!

Local food is far more "feasible" in so far as sustainability than industrial food. I buy everything I possibly can from local farmers. And where did I say I don't care about other people? I'm just not responsible for them, and I still fail to see how me buying tomatoes from a greenhouse down the road from me in anyway impacts if anyone else in the world gets food? You know what Phoenix, Im tired of you driving around in a car when other people around the world have to walk, as long as it benefits you, fuck everyone else. What hypocrisy!!! And maybe we should all give up our gym memberships and stop working out because other people in other parts of the world dont have access to them! How dare we make healthy decisions when others cant.

Phoenix you are a filthy fucking communist.

BTW, Zyyz, I wouldnt worry too much about uneducated people not buying GMO industrial food. People without much education tend to buy the cheapest, brightest colored box anyway. Your beloved multi trillion dollar mega conglomerate is safe! And btw, Im in favor of genetically modifying animals. I could care less. But local, naturally raised meat simply tastes better. So Ill buy that.

BrutulTM · Jan 11, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
You cant tell me a tomato grown in your garden doesnt taste better than the one in the plastic wrapped 3 pack for .99.

No, I can't, but that has absolutely nothing to do with organic. After all, I do use pesticides in the garden so my garden tomatoes are not organic. It doesn't have a god damn thing to do with organic. The tomato in the garden tastes better because it was vine ripened and hand picked while fully ripe and also it was a variety that was bred for flavor and not to withstand trucking. If you tried to sell those tomatoes in the supermarket you would lose most of them to bruising and rotting.

That has jack and shit to do with organic. Organic does not effect the flavor of the fruit or vegetable. There is no plausible way that it could. Period.

BrutulTM · Jan 11, 2014

llwhateverthefuckyournameis,

What you are talking about is not organic. You want hand farmed vegetables and you are willing to pay a high price for them. No problem, but you have to realize that you are a niche market and if everyone tried to eat like that there would be massive food shortages. I would be willing to bet you eat plenty of "industrially" produced food when you don't go to the farmer's market because you have already patted yourself on the back enough for the week.

EDIT: Oh god I just clicked your link and saw that your appeal to authority was a bunch of celebrity chefs. You win the critical thinking medal for today.

Mist · Jan 11, 2014

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
Let's not get dramatic and ridiculous.

I just want to know how many people opposed to GMO's actually know about genetic engineering, genomics, molecular biology, and biochemistry.

edit - are people opposed to genetic engineering of animals too?

I'm not being dramatic. It IS ridiculous. You know the kind of nonsense going on right now in mobile devices, where every company is suing everyone and getting products to market is a fucking legal nightmare? Now realize that this is going to start happening more and more just to grow food. A world where iif you're not armed to the teeth with lawyers, you can't grow any food at all.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 11, 2014

So you care only about the current legal system and how laws are applied. Do you think genetically modified plants taste worse or pose health risks, like the raging faggot above?

Lleauaric · Jan 12, 2014

Nice, ad hom and a strawman in same sentence. Well done.

When have I ever said GMOs were a health risk? Also I can assure you I enjoy heterosexual sex very much, and you seem to be the only one raging here, unable to maintain an adult conversation because your jimmies were rustled. Lighten up Francis.

Mist · Jan 12, 2014

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
So you care only about the current legal system and how laws are applied. Do you think genetically modified plants taste worse or pose health risks, like the raging faggot above?

I don't care about GMOs. Humans have been modifying plants since the beginning of civilization.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 12, 2014

Lleauaric_sl said:
Nice, ad hom and a strawman in same sentence. Well done.

When have I ever said GMOs were a health risk? Also I can assure you I enjoy heterosexual sex very much, and you seem to be the only one raging here, unable to maintain an adult conversation because your jimmies were rustled. Lighten up Francis.

Appealing to shit authority and complaining about attacks and made up facts on the internet. Truly are a giant faggot.

iannis · Jan 12, 2014

This is why I miss Hodj.

If he were here he would spend like 20 hours doing internet research just for the opportunity to call someone stupid.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 12, 2014

Iannis_sl said:
This is why I miss Hodj.

If he were here he would spend like 20 hours doing internet research just for the opportunity to call someone stupid.

Lleauaric links video of Martha Stewart to prove organic tastes better. No need to even do research to call him a faggot.

GMO, Monsanto, organic dreadlocked nonsense?

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