GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,785
214,062
i really wasnt trolling and i have never claimed to done it all. to hate on a baby when you dont hate on the babydaddy makes no sense to me. i can understand her being resentful for a bit but eventually you come around, im not saying she should welcome jon as her own, but she continued to hate on that kid til day she died for the first time
 

Feanor

Karazhan Raider
7,766
35,304
yeah dude, but that was obviously the choice of the author for a reason. without it or any of the pieces, the story would be dull. that's how i take it anyway.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Most of life and base emotions don't make a lot of sense and are rarely fair. If human psychology always followed rational lines, mental health would be a pretty trivial concern.

To try to explain it again, she doesn't hate Jon for being a bastard. She knows that is irrational and shitty. However, every time she sees him, it just brings back all those emotions of her husband's betrayal. If Jon went away and she never had to see him, it probably wouldn't be much of a thing. Having to live and pretend to half-ass being his mom for 15 years just builds up the resentment over time. There probably is a point where you start blaming him to a degree as she probably hits the point where she is thinking "If it wasn't for you, I could go back to loving my husband and everything would be happy and fine again!" or somthing similar. Jon is just the symbol of all the bad things in her life, if he didn't exist, everything would be fine (in her mind at least).

Of course, as soon as he leaves, everything goes to shit. But Martin is a harsh and terrible god.
 

Fadaar

That guy
10,810
11,832
Why do you guys keep referring to Jon Snow as a result of Ned's betrayal? I thought it was pretty clear he was not Ned's (biological) son.
 

LadyVex_sl

shitlord
868
0
Well, when Cat married Ned, she was promised (And had feelings for?) his older brother, who then died. So Ned took his brother's place in all things, including the betrothal. If I remember right, it was even an old fashioned thing that he did. When he left, Cat barely fucking knew Ned. I mean, I can understand it I guess. He'sherhusband now and all, and she was pregnant when he left, but sheeshus. A dude who was practically a stranger went to war, and got an extra kid out of it. The fact that she transferred all of her hatred and anger onto Jon for that betrayal was fairly fucked up. The only one who doesn't give two shits is Sansa because she is a bitch. The rest of the kids + Ned are like, bitch you are tripping. And yea, it was a betrayal. Jon was Lyanna's kid, and it was her dying wish that he protect that baby. The only way to do so was to pass it off as his kid. Robert might have been vindictive enough to kill a child because he regarded it as the rape of his intended. So it wasn't like Cat ever knew the real story.

Also, she DOES do things out of love for family, but it's fucking stupid shit she does. I've said this before, but it's not like what Ned does - Ned made bad decisions and often underestimated people in various ways, but Cat was the opposite. I am fairly sure once she went down that road of "I am going to get justice for Bran" there was an actual comment about her saying how ruthless the Lannisters were and yada yada, and yet STILL she went ahead with her crap.

I pitied her a lot, because I understood it was for love, and to protect her family, but she went into those situations with the full knowledge of Lannister wrath. Maybe she thought if Robert was still alive Ned could talk to him, or something, but I was quite angry at Cat for a long time because so many paths led from her initial decision and they all ended poorly.

Those things aren't technically her fault, and let's be honest. How many of us would have been like, hey, I should probably not do this because I might get my ass kicked? (I would be a total pussy and just fucking hide though for real.) The *only* small piece of argument you could make is that she wanted to make sure no one was sent to try to kill Bran again, which it SEEMED to start out as, but then on her way back she just takes Tyrion. SheknewTywin would never stand for such an insult to his house. She takes him to the Eyrie, where she gets pissed at her sister for failing to keep Tyrion, but it didn't matter. Just taking him did the damage, and she had to know that.

I don't super hate Catelyn, but I have a very hard time feeling a whole lot of sympathy for her when she went into the situations with a lot of knowledge. In the book she tells Ned to be Hand to Robert because she is worried the Lannisters might have something to do with Jon Arryn's death. Someone who legitimately thinks a high ranking family murdered the second most powerful man in the kingdom is not the sort of person who should turn around tomorrow and decide she is going to be a one man crew for justice for her family.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Why do you guys keep referring to Jon Snow as a result of Ned's betrayal? I thought it was pretty clear he was not Ned's (biological) son.
1. We really don't know that for sure still. Though it is very likely. Theoretically, only Eddard Stark who is dead and Howland Reed who hasn't left his house in 17 years were there to know the truth. If old Ned wasn't willing to even tell Catelyn what happened, it is likely Howland is the only living person alive who knows the truth of Jon Snow.
2. We are talking from Catelyn's perspective. Catelyn's view of Jon Snow is based entirely based on what Catelyn knows.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,785
214,062
we are having the same discussions about the same things for the last 6 months and likely to do so til a new book is published years from now and yet im getting blamed for ruining the thread? give me a break, at least i never claimed anyone was a frickin merman, though id like to see one in a later book as GRRM paying fanservice to the whackos.
 

Falstaff

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,354
3,247
let yall in on a secret. im jesting half the time, now which half is the real mystery.
tongue.png
It's actually no mystery. The real half is the one that gets monumentally butthurt over their message board name.
 

Sceleris_sl

shitlord
248
1
I loved Rob, and I think people are way too harsh on Cat. People tend to view things from their omniscient position and judge people based on that rather than the position they are in with all the stress and real world shit that would be going on. But anyway, even if they weren't popular they were integral.
This right here....people hating on Cat i can almost guarantee they don't have kids. A mother will make what look like irrational decisions to save her children. If there was a 0.00000001% chance that Tywin would release your children to you if you would free Jamie you'd hand him over to the lannisters in 2 seconds flat, heck you'd bring him there yourself. Cat knew Robb was going to die, she knew Frey wouldn't give a rats ass about wife #24, but she still tried holding hope to that miniscule chance he'd let Robb live.

This show is an excellent portrayal of human behavior. Tywin cares about his family, a lot in the same way Cat does, it's just the way how he does it and fixes shit that makes him look like a tough motherfucker. Ned was severely flawed because he was so damn loyal and honorable, it made him blind to what is called "choosing the lesser evil." Yes Jamie killed the mad king, and he got judged by that, not by the fact that breaking that sacred oath saved the entirety of kings landing.

GRRM gives us something we have barely seen before, not a Black and white world but a huge fucking gray area...we all grew up with shows that give us a definite good guy and a definite bad guy...this show doesn't, it also gives you the factor that noone is safe, and nice guys finish last. Only to survive the game you need to sometimes do something terrible to survive.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Cat is the fucking idiot that was dense enough to believe that Tyrion would send an assassin after her son with a knife that had "Property of Tyrion Lannister, Imp" stenciled on it. Taking it upon herself to arrest the Imp was the point of no return that kicked off the war.

(speaking of the dagger - did Joff do that to get back at Tyrion for slapping him, or was it just a coincidence that Petyr pinned it on Tyrion and Joff is just a fucking idiot?)
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,785
214,062
Astro IRL confirmed:

rrr_img_28441.jpg
i have a few pipes that look like that, but their grain and birds eye patterns are either non existent or not as nice looking as that dude's pipe.

yeah you cant talk about pipes without sounding gay.
redface.png


Cat is the fucking idiot that was dense enough to believe that Tyrion would send an assassin after her son with a knife that had "Property of Tyrion Lannister, Imp" stenciled on it. Taking it upon herself to arrest the Imp was the point of no return that kicked off the war.

(speaking of the dagger - did Joff do that to get back at Tyrion for slapping him, or was it just a coincidence that Petyr pinned it on Tyrion and Joff is just a fucking idiot?)
i thought Joff wanted bran dead because he fucking hates starks and didnt like being laughed at earlier during the mock swordplay session.
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
(speaking of the dagger - did Joff do that to get back at Tyrion for slapping him, or was it just a coincidence that Petyr pinned it on Tyrion and Joff is just a fucking idiot?)
It's implied that Littlefinger goaded Joffrey into it iirc.
 

Jait

Molten Core Raider
5,035
5,317
What's implied actually imo is that Joffrey always knew exactly who his parents were. That's why more than any other reason he was so fucked up and his brother and sister are fairly normal. Before we find out that he was the one who sent the assassin he drops about 50 lines between book 1-4 that he knows or saw Jaime nailing his mom.

At least that was my take on it.