GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

It was petty and personal in the way that every action of the lords and royals is petty and personal. The series is pretty clear about how little of a fuck any of them are really giving about how their actions effect the common people. It's not like Ned and the Gang were worse about it, they just weren't different from the other nobles in that respect.

Yeah. The Sparrows are actually my favorite plot development, I love seeing how all this stupid bullshit from the nobles finally coalesces into organization and rage among the "smallfolk".

But the deaths of the Starks kind of went beyond that, I think. If Ned had died, it would have been bad times for commoners in the North. For the lesser lords, too.

I think at the time of Robert's Rebellion they thought they were really doing something meaningful, but after it happened and they had to deal with the consequences they were a bit disappointed with the outcome in the end. Being king always seems awesome until you are king and find out it sucks, Robert learned that the hard way. Eddard never wanted to be anything more than what he was I think, and Jon Arryn just helped Robert pick up the pieces the best he could I think.

So whats up with the terrible artwork on the ASOIAF wiki? Pretty sure it's all from one of the admins or something, there's no way someone would just find it and think 'this is the best possible portrayal of these characters, better upload it!' Is there better stuff out there?

You can find some decent artwork out there. Probably easiest to find stuff on DA. Just search for game of thrones or whatever character. Lots of garbage, but in 5 seconds I found this for instance:

http://browse.deviantart.com/art/Gam...over-286847970

Azrayne_sl said:

So whats up with the terrible artwork on the ASOIAF wiki? Pretty sure it's all from one of the admins or something, there's no way someone would just find it and think 'this is the best possible portrayal of these characters, better upload it!' Is there better stuff out there?

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The majority is fan art of course, though I believe some is from the Card Game when there are larger prints available. I think they decided just to use the first thing they found to have something rather than no art at all, and have been putting in pics from the show for everyone when able I think.

Then again, its a wiki, yeah? If you don't like it, find and add pics yourself?

Zhaun_sl said:

I think at the time of Robert's Rebellion they thought they were really doing something meaningful, but after it happened and they had to deal with the consequences they were a bit disappointed with the outcome in the end. Being king always seems awesome until you are king and find out it sucks, Robert learned that the hard way. Eddard never wanted to be anything more than what he was I think, and Jon Arryn just helped Robert pick up the pieces the best he could I think.

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Well, Robert thought he'd be king with Lyanna as his queen. He couldn't have known she'd run off with Rhaegar, or what his war would ultimately cost him.

There are no heroes in this story. There are momentary heroics, vengeance and justice in equal measure. Brandon Stark was apparently kind of a bully and a dick, based on description. He sounds like the prototypical alpha male, and his brash behavior set a lot of unintended consequences in motion for everyone, not least his own family. Can you really say it's all his "fault" though? Not really. It's like blaming World War I on the assassination of Frans Ferdinand. Was it the inciting incident? Yeah, sorta, but there was a hell of a lot more going on politically at the time, and things had to be *just right* for war to break out on such a massive scale.

It's the same in Westeros. The feudal system is constructed in such a way that periodic corrections, sometimes massive ones, will inevitably occur. Robert's Rebellion is no less serious than the Dance of Dragons was. It just had a different winner.

Lyanna was already with Rhaegar when they mounted up to regulate. That is what kicked off the whole thing, Rhaegar won some tourney and crowned Lyanna his Queen of Love and Beauty then absconded with her to beat that pussy up. Brandon and Rickard Stark were killed by Aerys as a result of said absconding, and also Brandon being dumb. After killing Brandon and Rickard, Aerys was hunting for both Ned and Robert to kill them and finish off their houses. Ned and Robert said "Aw hell nah" and rolled out. I don't imagine, especialyl after Brandon and Rickard, that they thought they were getting Lyanna back alive.

I love the descriptions of the anti-climactic fight between Rhaegar and Robert. Two epic men, legends in their own time, oh what a battle! And then Robert fucking one shotted him.

Watching season 2 now!

Tuco_sl said:

It's going to be interesting if the faction that was made out to be villians in the first books ends up being the heroes in the last books.

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Are you referring to the Lannisters? I think it's already too late for their entire house to be considered heroes, but I could see Jaimie or Tyrion becoming the prototypical "hero".

Tyrion will save everyone from everything!

How many lannister men are still alive? 3?

1.5? Or are you counting cousins? Or undead bannerman?

i was counting all the lannisters in the books. there is that missing lannister who i assume could be dead (tyek?) then tyrion and jamie and there is the cousin that fucked cersei.

Just thinking about it now, but doesn't the idea that Rhaegar just decided to up and run with Lyanna because he wanted to hit that seems a little out of character? I mean this is the same dude who decided to live his whole life around being a knight because he read in some prophecy that he was supposed to be a warrior (remember, he was originally devoted to reading and music, he had no inherent love for fighting), the idea that he'd cast off his responsibility and throw the kingdom to hell just for some pussy seems a bit incongruent. And if he just wanted to bone Lyanna, he could have held a secret affair, instead of kidnapping her, which he would have had to know would result in their being chased down. But if he needed to make sure she conceived a son by him, and to be there to try have some control over the son's fate...

If we operate off the theory that Jon is his son via. Lyanna and that Jon is Prince that was Promised and/or Azor Ahai, then it seems more likely that Rhaegar found out that he/his first son Aegon weren't the one spoken of in the prophecy (as he originally believed), and since the Maesters had already told him that Elia couldn't bear more children, he decided that he had a duty to have another son, a duty which preceded his other duties to prophecy or to the kingdom.

Which raises the question of whether Lyanna specifically was required to bear the child (perhaps he came across another prophecy? Or had one of the 'dragon dreams') or whether he just chose whoever he'd rather do it with, although the latter also seems out of character, given how much trouble he caused from choosing Lyanna specifically. Perhaps the child for some reason needed to be of Stark descent? Born of Stark ice and Targaryen fire?

I dunno, I'm probably just repeating what others have pondered, but it just occured to me while reading the last page or so of the discussion here.

It also makes you wonder if the Maesters had any role to play in it. It's a bit of a stretch, but is it possible they manipulated him somehow, either with the content of the prophecy, or with Elia's health issues and inability to bear more children?

Short and cute little mash-up. I had a chuckle or two.