Greece - A New Hope
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A minor detail which the Troika is trying to keep quiet: If you wave the interest payments on the emergency loans, Greece is actually running a surplus and has been for the last few years.
General Antony
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Kriptini
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We can do it, guys! You and me, we can bail out Greece RIGHT NOW! :^)
Greek Bailout Fund | Indiegogo
Greek Bailout Fund | Indiegogo
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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This whole situation is BEYOND hysterical. Its seriously like something from a Joseph Heller novel.
Whole country has well known culture of not paying taxes. Creates unsustainable benefit state by politicians promising increase in benefits for votes. Along with a comically lazy state apparatus and great amounts of corruption. Runs up the EU credit card for 10 years. Too much debt.
THEN gets bailed out by the EU to protect greater interests. A far left party wins in an electoral landslide while running on the campaign platform of, "fuck you we wont pay." While simultaneously playing the victim of the evil EU for punishing their innocent people. And still considering taxes as "theft."
THENrealizes that the argument of "we owe you $200 billion, therefore we have leverage over you" isn't as accurate as anecdotal evidence would have you believe. Even with 40% of their debt haircut. Still unable to do the one single thing they need to function (collect taxes).
Defaults.
You can't make this shit up.
Whole country has well known culture of not paying taxes. Creates unsustainable benefit state by politicians promising increase in benefits for votes. Along with a comically lazy state apparatus and great amounts of corruption. Runs up the EU credit card for 10 years. Too much debt.
THEN gets bailed out by the EU to protect greater interests. A far left party wins in an electoral landslide while running on the campaign platform of, "fuck you we wont pay." While simultaneously playing the victim of the evil EU for punishing their innocent people. And still considering taxes as "theft."
THENrealizes that the argument of "we owe you $200 billion, therefore we have leverage over you" isn't as accurate as anecdotal evidence would have you believe. Even with 40% of their debt haircut. Still unable to do the one single thing they need to function (collect taxes).
Defaults.
You can't make this shit up.
Two things this morning:
... in other words, the Troika know Greece cannot repay its debts even if they do everything being demanded of them and their economy somehow grows for the next 15 years. They just aren't saying so because ordinary tax payers are going to have to pick up the bill for this (or maybe the rich... but you know which one it will be).
...so the Greek government might be about to fold it's hand and accept it's fate, more or less.
IMF: austerity measures would still leave Greece with unsustainable debt | World news | The Guardian
... in other words, the Troika know Greece cannot repay its debts even if they do everything being demanded of them and their economy somehow grows for the next 15 years. They just aren't saying so because ordinary tax payers are going to have to pick up the bill for this (or maybe the rich... but you know which one it will be).
http://www.ft.com/fastft/353421
...so the Greek government might be about to fold it's hand and accept it's fate, more or less.
Agraza
Registered Hutt
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Greece is facing the Kobayashi Maru. The only path forward is default or debt forgiveness. The troika is just as much at fault for the current situation as Greece. If Germany had let Greece fail earlier it would only be Greece's fault, but they've spun lies about their lending practice to keep Greece afloat, in reality only giving them more rope to hang themselves with.
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It's not as 2d as you make it out to be.
For someone to be in debt then someone has to have lent that money in the first place. After the introduction of the Euro then borrowing costs for all Eurozone members converged significantly - in effect, the poorer, less industrialised nations like Greece suddenly shared a credit rating with Germany.
Banks from across Europe were happily lending money across Europe until the bubble burst and they realised that the prospects for repayment weren't nearly as secure as they thought they were. The majority of the Greek bailout funds went straight to European banks, not to the Greek public purse - the Greek population has seen little in the way of bailout, all they have seen is cut after cut after cut.
Yes there are inherent problems in Greek economy/society but it is not nearly as black and white as you think it is. The successive bailouts have only succeeded in kicking the can further down the road, this whole situation should have been resolved in 2010.
Aaron
Goonsquad Officer
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Now maybe I'm just a filthy leftist but I say let Greece default. Seriously! When you give someone (be it a person or a country) a loan you are always taking a risk of them not paying it back. Greece, if it were personified, would be that dodgy friend you have who you know does not have an ounce of financial sense, blows his money on things he can't afford and they comes to you and asks him to tie him over til next month "I'll pay ya back, honest". And ok, maybe you fall for it once or twice, and maybe he pays you a little back, but if you keep lending him money and he ends up not paying you, well, tough shit dude! Should have seen the writing on the wall!
If governments negged on paying back debt more often then loans would be harder to come by and there'd be more fiscal responsibility.
If governments negged on paying back debt more often then loans would be harder to come by and there'd be more fiscal responsibility.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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There is actually a good bit of benefit to drawing things like this out over a long period of time. People and therefore markets get desensitized to the issue. So what might of been a sharp correction or even a little more now is just a small bump in the world markets despite the news being the same.
As for Greece, their best option is to not be stupid. Not a good track record on that.
As for Greece, their best option is to not be stupid. Not a good track record on that.
khorum
Murder Apologist
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That's why they're insisting on staying in the EU (and why the north europeans want them out). Those open borders guarantee an explosion of Greek immigration in Berlin and Brussels in the very near future!
Fuck getting your money out of Greek banks,even Bulgarians aren't having trouble withdrawing cash from those exact same Greek banks, just make like depression-era Okies leaving the dustbowl and get out of dodge.
The Greek government even threatened tosue the EUif they expel the Greeks and close the borders. All the while simultaneously campaigning to have its people vote AGAINST the bailout package and pretty much FOR default.
Fuck getting your money out of Greek banks,even Bulgarians aren't having trouble withdrawing cash from those exact same Greek banks, just make like depression-era Okies leaving the dustbowl and get out of dodge.
The Greek government even threatened tosue the EUif they expel the Greeks and close the borders. All the while simultaneously campaigning to have its people vote AGAINST the bailout package and pretty much FOR default.
Furry
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Abefroman
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khorum
Murder Apologist
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Yeah, fucking republicans. They should totally have like, latino candidates by now. Or two. Or women politicians. If they were serious they'd elect republican women governors. Maybe even republicanLATINA women governors.