Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling
- Thread starter Lord Thanos_foh
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Come on Req, I"ll give you your opinion if whether you think name recognition is important or not, but those guys have made ZERO MMOs as a team so far. And there is simply no other MMO out there that has even come close to WOW"s. To suggest that WOW boomed as it did without name recognition is naive imo. I know Curt as a ballplayer, I know Salvatore as an author and I know Mcfarlane as an artist (lol I think that is right). But as a team? Nada so far.Requiem said:
To be honest I just don"t think they will produce a product that will draw the numbers Curt was even implying. I wish them luck, and am certainly not rooting against them. And that isn"t to say they don"t have the talent to create a decent MMO. But a knockout? Based on what? Hope? Belief? Hype? It is way too early to even have this conversation especially since all we know is that they are working on a fantasy MMO presumeably targeting for a wide appeal.
Based upon the expertise of the employees, the creativity of McFarlane/Salvatore, and the many years of leadership and team-building that both Curt and Brett have.Maxxius said:
You"re welcome to your skepticism, but why try and rain on the parade of others that reallydohave faith in their ability?
Cad that isn"t an answer. No one is suggesting that they don"t have individual talents. It isn"t a question of raining on anyone"s parade, especially since no parade is passing yet. But to slam discussion simply because it isn"t pom pom? One thing I am not is a hypocrit. If they produce a knockout I will cheer. If they pull the same crap Brad pulled, i am going to critisize.
Max...people have been saying it for years....WOW boomed because it was a good game not because of its name. A lot of people can"t stand that, but its more truth than fallacy.
It has always been about the game rather than the name.
<shrug> I never played a Blizz game before WOW, they never appealed to me. Much of my WOW guild is the same. I would say that when we started thinking we were gonna move the guild from EQ to WOW we had to explain to about 95% of the people who Blizzard was because there were leery of moving to a new game.
I don"t think thats a rare occurance. You"re making the mistake of living in your shoebox and assuming everyone else lives there with you. Its an assumption that doesn"t bear fruit.
It has always been about the game rather than the name.
<shrug> I never played a Blizz game before WOW, they never appealed to me. Much of my WOW guild is the same. I would say that when we started thinking we were gonna move the guild from EQ to WOW we had to explain to about 95% of the people who Blizzard was because there were leery of moving to a new game.
I don"t think thats a rare occurance. You"re making the mistake of living in your shoebox and assuming everyone else lives there with you. Its an assumption that doesn"t bear fruit.
The name may have gotten quite a few people to try it out. What it didn"t do is keep them there, the game itself did that. It also didn"t make them tell their friends how fun it was, the game did that. The name may get people in the door, it"s the game that keeps them in the house.
I wasn"t slamming discussion, it seemed like you were giving a negative forecast without real reason. VG and SWG are failures, but the individuals involved at the top weren"t nearly as talented as those in 38 Studios (for example, Brad couldn"t lead his company out of an empty parking lot). Like I said in my last post, you"re welcome to your skepticism (jaded gamers unite!), but it seems unwarranted to push it so hard (at least, that"s how it feels) when you consider the driving forces involved.Maxxius said:
What is the biggest description you always hear about the WOW playerbase? The BNET crowd. And what were they playing? Starcraft and Warcraft. Think that helped box sales? Of course it did. Is WOW in and of itself a well made game. Yup, but it could not have been made if WOW never had a PAST to build off of in its creation. It had the story already there. WOW boomed because it targeted the right market, and that market was the Bnet crowd who already knew the product.Gaereth said:
You think most of the players really give a rat"s ass about end game raiding, logging in 5 days a week killing the same monsters over and over for little loot like us old schoolers did? Hell no. They only care to the extent it impacts their pvp, which is what they want to do. Log on and blast each other.
Look at Lotro. It is your standard pve MMO. Not ever going to go near WOW subscriptions. Which are the 2 most looked forward to MMOs now. AOC, WAR. Both pvp oriented games. Personally I think the days of PVE MMOs are over, destined to entertain an aging and dwindling market.
So if 38studios wants to roll the dice so be it, nothing I can say will have any impact. But that doesn"t dissuade me from saying I think it is a mistake on their part.
Kind of rambling now, scotch has that effect on me sometimes.
That kind of goes without saying Twobit. Certainly if the game sucked, it is going to fail no matter who made it.Twobit Whore said:
I have to disagree with you. EVE is not the perfect example, not in the least. If anything it proves his point. A good game but so technical it hasn"t had near the numbers WoW or EQ has. While EVE is successful enough to stay afloat it is hardly a blockbuster or even a threat to other MMO"s.Genjiro said:
Help? Sure. Was it a 7 million subscription help? Not even close. You can"t get bigger name recognition then Star Wars and we all know how that turned out. I think that game alone proved that a great game will sell more boxes then a name any day of the week.Maxxius said:
It really is that simple, really. The arguments start to heat up when you try to use a board like this to discern what "a great game" meansRythonn said:
Sometimes your great game is my drink coaster, and vice versa. That being said, again like the movie industry, a good movie is a good movie, even if you aren"t interested in the topic. I can"t tell you how many times I"ve been forced to watch a movie that, 10 minutes in, I am somehow interested in, and 2 hours later I"m saying "Man that was a great movie." The topic was of minimal interest to me, but in the end the directors put something together that, regardless of your interest in the "topic/genre", was done in a way to appeal to the movie goers as a whole, and not just a "target" audience.
Genjiro
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 5,218
- 5,066
Numbers don"t mean everything, which was part of the point that a company makes their own game to be great, even if its niche like EvE. Nor does being a blockbuster or threat to other MMOs mean much either. Many games have proven they can be successful without needing WoW numbers, and without attempting to be aWoW killer. Your argument is fallacious, because you are basing merits on a game by its $$ figures, and even called EvE agood gameyourself, which should be the goal. I also highly doubt CCP is just barely staying afloat, and not making a good return on their investment.Rythonn said:
That being said, EvEs problems in numbers more stem from (in my estimation) how unfriendly it is towards new players in terms of catching up to speed. Other mmos, you can always catch up, if you"re a good player your character can have a chance to gear up with the rest, have the same skills if you play a lot etc. I think people see that they will never catch up no matter what they do to the big dogs of the Eve universe, so its a big turnoff to those who are competitive by nature. Whether that argument is valid or not is subjective of course, but as long as the idea persists in peoples minds, I think it hurts their subs. To the original point on being technical from a difficulty standpoint, like I said, a good tutorial, clean and organized interface, and a game that fosters community interaction goes a long long way to alleviating those problems (whice EvE most certainly has).
Then again, as Faille pointed out, perhaps he was just referring to computer specs, which could be my mistake interpreting, and in that case I would agree with his statement.
Getting to understand the true numbers and how they work within the industry has shown me that there is a major misconception in many peoples minds as to what successful means.
"Low" sub numbers to some people, like 150k subs, is not unsuccessful. Far from it in many cases.
"Low" sub numbers to some people, like 150k subs, is not unsuccessful. Far from it in many cases.
You are missing the second point of what I said. The game could NOT have been made in the first place without it having ALREADY EXISTED as it did. It would have been some totally different game. Or to put it another way, it isn"t a question of hey let"s make this MMO and call it WOW, it is a question of hey let"s turn this already popular and existing game called WOW into a MMO. The Bnet got them in the door, the great design of the game kept them there. Would it be as successful if it were a totally different game but same game design? Who the hell knows. But stop discounting the game"s history as impacting its success.Rythonn said:
It is if you spend 30-40 million dollars to produce the game in the first place heheh.Ngruk said: