Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

WillzZz_foh · Oct 29, 2006

Man.... 27 Pages and the last 10 or so I was weeping openly at the news that it wouldn"t be Demonwars.

Also, what Tyen said. wru Fallout?

And lastly: *long sigh at more fantasy*

Atleast take this opportunity to innovate. Wasting all that talent and potential on another sandwich combat game is going to make me puke up way more than I do already. For the love of god, no more Healers -> Main Tank -> Mob <- DPS. Please. Think of the children.

Utnayan · Oct 30, 2006

I cannot convey more than anyone else here has that middle age D&D has been played out to the extreme. Enough of it. There are plenty of settings that people are looking for that would bring something fresh to the genre. Don"t think that other titles, which have outright sucked publisher funding to the bone, did so because of the theme. Anarchy Online had one of the most horrible launches known to man. And while I hear it is a lot better now, you never recover from a shitty launch. Same with Star Wars Galaxies, which just became shittier every month. No one really has yet to put out a great sci fi game with a good launch, and fun gameplay concepts.

Time to think of something else, especially if you want to put your company on the map. Sci Fi, Post Nuclear, Pre-Nuclear, or hell, a completely different Sci fi storyline. Modern, Prohibition era Mafia, western, Roman era, greek mythology, etc. Anything else but Fantasy D&D.

I personally think RA Salvatore is washed up. But if you really think this guy can create something good, then have him do it out of his comfort zone of rehashed D&D and bring something fresh to the genre.

This is a problem with how the industry thinks as a whole though more than you or your company. Think outside of the box and look at common sense. Sci fi themed MMORPG"s didn"t suck because of the theme, which is the scapegoat everyone uses to save their jobs after they release a pile of shit into the industry. They suck because all we have had so far are poorly thought out pieces of trash made for a dollar not by a dollar. And when these titles fail, big name publishers brand that area of the market as a washout. Instead of pointing the finger at the people who fucked it up.

Bring something better to this industry with your new company than another generic fantasy game. This theme is all played out and quite frankly, just flat out boring after 15 minutes when you realize it"s the same thing under the hood with a new coat of paint.

Surreal_foh · Oct 30, 2006

I agree I would like to see a new genre show up, I love fantasy but its time for something fresh. A Shadowrun type game is just waiting to be made and would extremely successful.

Anarchy Online had a great idea but as mentioned above a horrible launch killed that game.

A few things that kill a game for me are:

1) Piss poor launch. Yeah there might be a bug or two here and there that needs to be worked but Anarchy Online and Shadowbane were the two worst launches Ive ever seen. You have 100K new subscribers in the game on day one, account for the lag in the newbie areas prior to launch!

2) Lack of content. The gamers on this board especially chew thru content extremely fast. For myself I really liked WoW but when Molten Core became a farming zone and new content wasnt close to being released that was the end of WoW for me. I cancelled my account and havent played since. I just cant get back into a game after that happens. Same with DDO, thought it was a fun game that didnt require significant amounts of time to be invested to have fun, finished the content, game over.

3) Have your gameplay/character development finished before release. I loved EQ, played it hardcore for 3ish years, online everyday for hours playing it. I had my levels (I hate leveling) and was enjoying the community and all the raiding. Then they decide to add AAs and that killed the fun for me. Sure it gave you new things to accomplish on your toon but in a hardcore raiding guild there is the pressure to have all your AAs. Had they been in the game at the beginning I wouldnt have minded but damn, dont make me re-level my character 2-3 years into it. Maybe Im in the minority on this one but figure out what you want for character development and have it in the game from day 1.

Scaffa_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Yep, Shadowrun style mmorpg would be the first thing since Zelda 64 to take cash out of my wallet on pre-order.

Sharmai_foh · Oct 30, 2006

*In response to buying gold in games...

While I am not an advocate of allowing people to buy gold for cash in online games either we all agree that any form of "currency" that a mmo uses will be exploited buy the likes of buywowgold.com and ige etc.

It seems as if blizzard"s approach has only hurt their more diehard fans like us here in that instead of purchasing herbs and potions on the AH for cheap those mass bans cause all prices to skyrocket.

Why we haven"t yet tried to use a different system to combat this problem is beyond me but I"m espically suprised no one has mentioned the EVE system.

In EVE farmers can"t generate enough isk farming to have a noticable impact on the enviroment so the only way the farmers can get the millions of ISK neccessary to sell for money is to buy 30/90/120 day time cards and then sell those cards to players in exchange for ISK (which EVE fully allows and supports)

When this does is allow a kind of "reward" to the high end and dedicated players by almost giving them free time for all the hard work, time, and effort they put in to get there. It also at the same time allows those who wish to spend insane globs of cash on my a way to do so without significatly hurting the Market.

The players who do buy this gold will go out and buy up all the fun expensive toys and believe they are going to pw3n only to find out that in EVE skill will quickly get the destroyed...

There would have to be some underlying features to get this to work such a exponentialy scaling currency drop (Read: 10 gold an hour by lvl 10 and 1 million an hour by lvl 60) and also Skillsets are goals the required people to reach before they could use that new uber weapon/armor/etc they just bought.

Rangoth · Oct 30, 2006

Sharmai said:
*In response to buying gold in games...

While I am not an advocate of allowing people to buy gold for cash in online games either we all agree that any form of "currency" that a mmo uses will be exploited buy the likes of buywowgold.com and ige etc.

It seems as if blizzard"s approach has only hurt their more diehard fans like us here in that instead of purchasing herbs and potions on the AH for cheap those mass bans cause all prices to skyrocket.

Why we haven"t yet tried to use a different system to combat this problem is beyond me but I"m espically suprised no one has mentioned the EVE system.

In EVE farmers can"t generate enough isk farming to have a noticable impact on the enviroment so the only way the farmers can get the millions of ISK neccessary to sell for money is to buy 30/90/120 day time cards and then sell those cards to players in exchange for ISK (which EVE fully allows and supports)

When this does is allow a kind of "reward" to the high end and dedicated players by almost giving them free time for all the hard work, time, and effort they put in to get there. It also at the same time allows those who wish to spend insane globs of cash on my a way to do so without significatly hurting the Market.

The players who do buy this gold will go out and buy up all the fun expensive toys and believe they are going to pw3n only to find out that in EVE skill will quickly get the destroyed...

There would have to be some underlying features to get this to work such a exponentialy scaling currency drop (Read: 10 gold an hour by lvl 10 and 1 million an hour by lvl 60) and also Skillsets are goals the required people to reach before they could use that new uber weapon/armor/etc they just bought.

I could be wrong but that seems like the worst business approach ever. You are rewarding those who use/buy/play your product most often.

I am scared shitless of the day these games move to anything other than a monthly payscheme. For awhile I thought it was a guarantee(after AOL ruined my GemstoneIII experience by charing by the hour when I was 12 and AOL was a family paid thing). I could not longer play.

If you can spend in game money for actualy game time the people who play most will never have to play. Doesn"t make sense to me

Witoubo_foh · Oct 30, 2006

I think Sharmai missed a couple things I think are important in EVEs scheme.

Your character advances at a set rate in Eve. You pick a skill to train and points accumulate at the same rate, online or off. More time spent in game lets you hone your skills and accumulate wealth but doesn"t affect the rate your character improves. To go from newbie character (thousands of ISK an hour) to super miner, able to pilot the largest mining ship and pull in the big ISK (millions an hour) will literally take months.

That is a pretty big barrier to entry for farmers right there. Bans don"t just eliminate ISK but characters with months of irreplaceable time invested.

On top of this the only resources worth anything to high level players are in PvP zones and there is a large chunk of the population that survives as pirates. The key here being that to survive at all in these zones your ship (and you will probably have escorts at this point) will cost millions of ISK, worth hours of mining. To really thrive, your ship (and escorts) might be worth a week of mining or more.

A successfull pirate attack will either destroy your ship and escort and make off with your cargo or hold you ransom for about what your ship costs. If you catch someone in a bad mood, they might pod kill you as well and destroy any implants you had.

For all the reasons above (and others), to be a big player in the economy you need to have working relationships with a bunch of player groups. Consumers, manufacturers, security forces, bounty hunters, haulers the list goes on.

Edit - Sorry for the small derail, I"ve always been impressed by EVE"s in game economy.

redjunkopera_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Waiting endlessly for skills to train is what really bored me away from EVE... I don"t want to incubate my account for 2-3 months before I can start playing with everyone else.

With a system like that farmers don"t even need to farm... they can just incubate accounts and sell them as is.

gnomad_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Soygen said:
Gnomad = struck out looking.

I look forward to seeing whatever you guys do. I"m not one to get overexcited for something that isn"t nearly about to release, but I"ll definitely be following your project.

Not at all Soygen, got the exact response I figured I would get. Just a slight variation on the response I would expect from Brad McQualude.

Looks like in a year or so UT will have a new crusade to take up with GMG since at this point in time I see no fundamental difference between them, Sigil, or SoE. In fact isn"t GMG involved with SOE somehow? Seem to remember that the original press release also mentioned SOE in it.

Oh well not worth the time to look it up. I am sure that all you people that want to (fill in the blank) to try to get into beta will do it for me to show how "much better and more supportive" you are then I am.

As to your comment Curt about being able to tell what my feedback is you are so wrong, but then again I expected that kind of a response from you.

Plorkyeran_foh · Oct 30, 2006

gnomad said:
Not at all Soygen, got the exact response I figured I would get. Just a slight variation on the response I would expect from Brad McQualude.

I"d certainly hope Brad McQuiad would respond in the same way, as it"s the only remotly sane response.

Dynalisia_foh · Oct 30, 2006

gnomad said:
Not at all Soygen, got the exact response I figured I would get. Just a slight variation on the response I would expect from Brad McQualude.

Looks like in a year or so UT will have a new crusade to take up with GMG since at this point in time I see no fundamental difference between them, Sigil, or SoE. In fact isn"t GMG involved with SOE somehow? Seem to remember that the original press release also mentioned SOE in it.

Oh well not worth the time to look it up. I am sure that all you people that want to (fill in the blank) to try to get into beta will do it for me to show how "much better and more supportive" you are then I am.

As to your comment Curt about being able to tell what my feedback is you are so wrong, but then again I expected that kind of a response from you.

You gave the exact response I figured you would give. I bet we"re going to see a few more so you can show how "much more experienced and perceptive" you are than all of us. Anyway, you are so wrong, but then again I expected this kind of response from you.

Veng_foh · Oct 30, 2006

gnomad said:
Not at all Soygen, got the exact response I figured I would get. Just a slight variation on the response I would expect from Brad McQualude.

Looks like in a year or so UT will have a new crusade to take up with GMG since at this point in time I see no fundamental difference between them, Sigil, or SoE. In fact isn"t GMG involved with SOE somehow? Seem to remember that the original press release also mentioned SOE in it.

Oh well not worth the time to look it up. I am sure that all you people that want to (fill in the blank) to try to get into beta will do it for me to show how "much better and more supportive" you are then I am.

As to your comment Curt about being able to tell what my feedback is you are so wrong, but then again I expected that kind of a response from you.

If these forums really want get back on track, start by banning retards like this guy.

Atleast Ut rants on real problems in specific games and the industry, this guy is bitching about theoretical concepts of a game in its drawing board stages to hopefully elicit a scathing response from a big name baseball player.

Angry Amadeus_sl · Oct 30, 2006

I cannot convey more than anyone else here has that middle age D&D has been played out to the extreme. Enough of it. There are plenty of settings that people are looking for that would bring something fresh to the genre. Don"t think that other titles, which have outright sucked publisher funding to the bone, did so because of the theme. Anarchy Online had one of the most horrible launches known to man. And while I hear it is a lot better now, you never recover from a shitty launch. Same with Star Wars Galaxies, which just became shittier every month. No one really has yet to put out a great sci fi game with a good launch, and fun gameplay concepts.

Time to think of something else, especially if you want to put your company on the map. Sci Fi, Post Nuclear, Pre-Nuclear, or hell, a completely different Sci fi storyline. Modern, Prohibition era Mafia, western, Roman era, greek mythology, etc. Anything else but Fantasy D&D.

I personally think RA Salvatore is washed up. But if you really think this guy can create something good, then have him do it out of his comfort zone of rehashed D&D and bring something fresh to the genre.

This is a problem with how the industry thinks as a whole though more than you or your company. Think outside of the box and look at common sense. Sci fi themed MMORPG"s didn"t suck because of the theme, which is the scapegoat everyone uses to save their jobs after they release a pile of shit into the industry. They suck because all we have had so far are poorly thought out pieces of trash made for a dollar not by a dollar. And when these titles fail, big name publishers brand that area of the market as a washout. Instead of pointing the finger at the people who fucked it up.

Bring something better to this industry with your new company than another generic fantasy game. This theme is all played out and quite frankly, just flat out boring after 15 minutes when you realize it"s the same thing under the hood with a new coat of paint.

Ngruk_foh · Oct 30, 2006

gnomad said:
Not at all Soygen, got the exact response I figured I would get. Just a slight variation on the response I would expect from Brad McQualude.

Looks like in a year or so UT will have a new crusade to take up with GMG since at this point in time I see no fundamental difference between them, Sigil, or SoE. In fact isn"t GMG involved with SOE somehow? Seem to remember that the original press release also mentioned SOE in it.

Oh well not worth the time to look it up. I am sure that all you people that want to (fill in the blank) to try to get into beta will do it for me to show how "much better and more supportive" you are then I am.

As to your comment Curt about being able to tell what my feedback is you are so wrong, but then again I expected that kind of a response from you.

Actually kind of cool that I was right. Posts like yours and debates like these get neither side anywhere.

Probably safe to say that you and I can agree that we"ll disagree on pretty much everything for the next decade or so.

That"s cool though because every company and every forum has this dynamic, regardless of the companies stance on any topic.

The deadlier path here is one where I try and appease you, because that entails, in a lot of cases, saying something I don"t mean or can"t back up, to stop a rant. It"s not worth either of our time to do that.

FWIW GMG is "involved" with no one, from a company standpoint, as of yet. We are in rather deep discussions with a host of companies, the most prominent being Comcast. We have had some outstanding dialogue with SOE to this point as well. I have had a fantastic relationship with SOE and my hope is that after our situation resolves itself with our major partner, SOE and GMG will find a way to work together in many different capacities as we move forward.

As a side note, GMG opened it"s office today in Maynard, Mass. 30k square feet of, well, of, um, mess really. We have a small portion of the buildout completed and our "war room" is up and running so things are happening.

Was a pretty cool day as we popped the bubbly to commemorate what we feel will be a rather historic day, day 1 really, in this companies life...

Ngruk_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Utnayan said:
Bring something better to this industry with your new company than another generic fantasy game. This theme is all played out and quite frankly, just flat out boring after 15 minutes when you realize it"s the same thing under the hood with a new coat of paint.

Dammit! I had so hoped to place my trust and future in the company on a generic, boring, tedious, played out, fantasy MMORPG..

That"s years of work down the tubes...

Big_w_powah · Oct 30, 2006

Ngruk said:
Dammit! I had so hoped to place my trust and future in the company on a generic, boring, tedious, played out, fantasy MMORPG..

That"s years of work down the tubes...

While theres a market for non-fantasy MMORPG"s, there"s also a huge market for the next EQ. a game with FREEDOM, thats no zero-sum. A game where a few mechanics are placed in, and let to run rampant. What is over powering is nerfed to where it should be.

I"m sick of knowing the outcome of a fight before I ever touch the mob.

On a side note, if you do go fantasy. Hook it up with a good playing development job and I"ve got plenty of classes for ya. Wink wink.

EDIT: On, and whatever you do, please allow a healthy ammount of MELEE in your game. Scifi can have all sorts of sweet melee weapons as well. AO really turned me off do to the lack of melee weapons...Almost everyone had to use a gun..=\

Cadrid_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Ngruk said:
FWIW GMG is "involved" with no one, from a company standpoint, as of yet. We are in rather deep discussions with a host of companies, the most prominent being Comcast. We have had some outstanding dialogue with SOE to this point as well. I have had a fantastic relationship with SOE and my hope is that after our situation resolves itself with our major partner, SOE and GMG will find a way to work together in many different capacities as we move forward.

Are you referring to purely financial areas of development, or are you seeking to have key parts of your game (be it servers, game mechanics, the engine, something else entirely) developed/maintained by a secondary company? I just hope that whatever the case may be you don"t allow another company to push you around in an attempt to glean as much money from your project as possible.

Ngruk said:
As a side note, GMG opened it"s office today in Maynard, Mass. 30k square feet of, well, of, um, mess really. We have a small portion of the buildout completed and our "war room" is up and running so things are happening.

Was a pretty cool day as we popped the bubbly to commemorate what we feel will be a rather historic day, day 1 really, in this companies life...

Wow, Maynard? That"s like a 15 minute drive for me. I"ll have to come over some time and take a peek at the place. Maybe the game, too.

Ngruk_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Cadrid said:
I just hope that whatever the case may be you don"t allow another company to push you around in an attempt to glean as much money from your project as possible.

Won"t happen. I could go on and on and make manly statement about manly things here, bravado here, manly stuff there, but another road better off not traveled.

Let"s just stick with the understanding that as President of this company I have a responsibility to the members of this company, and their families, to do what is in their best interest, and GMGs, at all times.

That"s not to say I don"t also realize business is a give and take, but when it comes to creative control and possession, and retention of the IP we"ve created, and continue to create, we will not be now, nor ever, in a partnership that sees us lose creative control of a product, or an IP that we create.

I don"t like to make definitive statements, they come back to haunt you, but I am very very confident and comfortable making this one since I think it is now, and always will be a reflection on who I am, and who we are as a company.

WillzZz_foh · Oct 30, 2006

Ngruk said:
Won"t happen. I could go on and on and make manly statement about manly things here, bravado here, manly stuff there, but another road better off not traveled.

Let"s just stick with the understanding that as President of this company I have a responsibility to the members of this company, and their families, to do what is in their best interest, and GMGs, at all times.

That"s not to say I don"t also realize business is a give and take, but when it comes to creative control and possession, and retention of the IP we"ve created, and continue to create, we will not be now, nor ever, in a partnership that sees us lose creative control of a product, or an IP that we create.

I don"t like to make definitive statements, they come back to haunt you, but I am very very confident and comfortable making this one since I think it is now, and always will be a reflection on who I am, and who we are as a company.

Which is why I believe you have a much better chance than existing games to make a mark in the genre, and move it forward. Say whatever you want about business deals and the realistic world of business, but I"m quite certain overpowering publishers are holding back this industry more than any "I wanna make X game but better!" developers ever will.

Oh and..

Ngruk said:
Dammit! I had so hoped to place my trust and future in the company on a generic, boring, tedious, played out, fantasy MMORPG..
That"s years of work down the tubes...

made me chuckle. Not because it"s particularly funny, but in realisation that you"re just as cynical and jaded as most of us, and that makes me smile; given your massive popularity in the "real world". Oh what a strange place, these forums be. Oh well, atleast you"ve gotten more airtime here than the Cardinals did in the World Series.

Now get to work. We"ve been hyped as much as I(we?) can take it, I don"t want to see this turn into Vanguard pt 2 with 800 posts per day of the same old shit. Talk is cheap, announce some hires, atleast.

Spontaneous Cumbustion_foh · Oct 31, 2006

How the hell do I miss the fact that Curt Schilling is posting on the boards here? Should"ve read more then the first few pages of this thread.

Interesting stuff so far, and I definitely agree that non-fantasy would rock.

And just for the general fanboiness, if ya ever need a gopher with a Sports Management business degree, i"m willing to take a paycut.

Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

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