Gun control

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Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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You can't be serious. People have been targeting places such as schools long.before the 80. Hell schools and churches have been blown up, so sandy hook is the farthest thing from a omg new thing we have to deal with.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Stres. et_Baptist_Church_bombing

You people seriously are sheep.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_primary_schools
 
Excidium

Excidium

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Blakkheim_sl said:
One more issue that I think needs to be discussed that, as far as I can tell, has been completely ignored up until this point in this whole debate is the liability of the school itself. Everyone one of the parents of those murdered school children should get together and sue the ever loving hell out of that school and their administration. If you put your child and his or her safety into to the complete control of this organization then they should be liable for it when shit like this happens. One thing that we all know that motivates people to take action is money. When these schools start getting sued into fucking oblivion for not protecting the children they are responsible for, they might start thinking about beefing up their security. From what we've heard so far, this asshole broke into the school without too much trouble. Obviously, not one damn person in the school had any damn idea about how to defend against anyone with any type of weapon at all, much less an "assault rifle". I guarantee you, after a few of these school districts got held monetarily liable for their shit security, they would damn sure find enough money in their budgets to find a security guard or at least get some trained volunteers in their to help. Everyone of these schools has a PTO filled with volunteers there to help out with everything under the sun that these schools need. Yet some people act like it would be impossible to get volunteers for security (who are armed and trained to use their weapon).
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Looking for punitive damages is the reason the states are always looking to capitalize on some bullshit. All I see on US TV is ads for class action lawsuits, personal claims lawyers, and prescription drugs. Don't you see the problem with those ads? Do we need more self diagnosing idiots who believe these ads because they want the quick fix instead of addressing the real issues? Do you need more people trying to gain millions of dollars in settlements because they're fucking retards who put hot coffee between their fat legs.

No the parents should not receive money from the public because their kids were part of a random act of violence. What happened was not preventable from the schools liability. Its a school, there should be reason to break into it. Do you want your kids to be learn about life in the confines of a locked down, on edge public building? I had a police officer not on duty as an RCMP in my high school. He came to the high school to help students with bullying, drug and alcohol use, and general advice of not being a fuck up. He was a pretty chill, cool guy. He did not carry a weapon.
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

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Things that will actually reduce gun violence:

  • Reduce the number of guns (especially handguns).
  • End drug prohibition.

Completely fucking idiotic ideas that will accomplish nothing of value:

  • Banning "assault" weapons.
  • More gun free zones.
  • Armed guards in schools.
  • Armed teachers.
  • Regulating violent media.

Less guns equals less gun violence. This is a fact that is correlated by many dozens of countries around the world. It doesn't matter if guns are banned injustChicago (for example) because we still have 300 million guns in the country, and it's not like you get frisked if you want to enter the city. There's hardly any border control at all between states, let alone cities. This is why selectively banning guns in individual parts of the US doesn't seem to work. You have to reduce the amount of guns in the country overall.
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

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Banning "assault" weapons.
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I'm on board with the idea that the whole focus on 'assault weapons' is kind of silly, but how are they going to reduce the overall number of guns if not banning or restricting access to certain types of weapons and ammunition?
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

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To me it seems likely that many people would just replace their banned assault weapons with another weapon. I don't think selectively banning certain types of guns will dramatically reduce the number of gunsunlessyou ban most types of guns and heavily regulate ownership for the rest (like the UK does). But just banning one type of gun seems pointless to me, especially when it's not even the type of gun that is responsible for the huge majority of the violence.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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goatface_sl said:
locks are for honest people
almost anything under $500 can be defeated in a matter mins
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Yup. We don't even lock our back door. The entire backside of our house is big glass doors and windows. If someone wants in, they can grab any of a number of flowerpots on the back patio and toss it through the window. My dinky little lock isn't going to protect anything. We lock the front door for the illusion of safety so my wife can sleep.

Even with safes, a lot of people buy the little hand gun safes or little home safes and put them on a shelf. The criminal can simply pick it up and walk off with it. Some can be bolted down, which I think would add a layer of security. I tried Google-ing but couldn't find a picture. Someone had one of those big beautiful gun safes, and someone broke into their house, tied a big chain around it, fed chain through the window, and just floored their vehicle. Busted the safe through the wall of the house and drug it down the street. Although I don't think they made it very far, and there was an obvious gaping destruction of the street where the safe was being drug.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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Excidium_sl said:
Looking for punitive damages is the reason the states are always looking to capitalize on some bullshit. All I see on US TV is ads for class action lawsuits, personal claims lawyers, and prescription drugs. Don't you see the problem with those ads? Do we need more self diagnosing idiots who believe these ads because they want the quick fix instead of addressing the real issues? Do you need more people trying to gain millions of dollars in settlements because they're fucking retards who put hot coffee between their fat legs.

No the parents should not receive money from the public because their kids were part of a random act of violence. What happened was not preventable from the schools liability. Its a school, there should be reason to break into it. Do you want your kids to be learn about life in the confines of a locked down, on edge public building? I had a police officer not on duty as an RCMP in my high school. He came to the high school to help students with bullying, drug and alcohol use, and general advice of not being a fuck up. He was a pretty chill, cool guy. He did not carry a weapon.
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Oh my brother, it gets so much worse than you can imagine. Most mornings in the emergency room are pieces of shit that come in because they "got in a wreck" or "fell in a parking lot" several days ago, and now they claim they are in so much pain and want you to x-ray them. They are simply starting the paperwork for one of their bogus lawsuits. There are people I've seen who *literally* make a career out of suing people for bogus wrecks. One in particular must either be the most unlucky driver ever, or simply the biggest piece of shit on earth. By the way, they never have insurance, so either their bills are being footed by Medicaid (you and I are paying for their behavior), or they simply are seen for free under the EMTALA act, in which case you and I are still paying for it. How? Increased health insurance premiums, because hospitals have to charge such retarded prices to their insured patients to make up for the free care they are required to provide to "self-payers" and people who obviously aren't going to pay their bill.

Oh, and with their retarded lawsuits against other drivers, and the idea that most of them end up settling for some sum of money, what do we think will happen to car insurance premiums? Go up! And there's a scummy thing that scumbag lawyers do. Whether its in the ER or in a doctor's office, when a lawyer is sending a patient to be evaluated for a lawsuit, the lawyer is supposed to cover the cost of the visit for that patient. So what the lawyers do is send the patient to be evaluated, and let either the hospital or Medicaid pay for it, and then get the results and use those results to sue someone. If Medicaid finds out that a visit was done for the purpose of a lawsuit, they refuse reimbursement. So the doctor and hospital are out the money for doing work, and the scumbag lawyer saved money from not having to pay for the patient's workup, which is the very data he's using to file a lawsuit against someone else, that will ultimately affect the rates that all of us pay. ... And, the way the lawyers tell their clients to get around this, is if the doctor asks "Who's your lawyer?" to just say "No one." And we're required by law to evaluate them in an emergency setting. Fucked up!

Don't even get me started on frivolous lawsuits against doctors, and the mindset of idiots who think we are just moneybags that they can sue for anything.
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

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Other than the 60 countries on Earth who've implemented gun control, reduced the number of guns in their countries, and have a fraction of our gun violence as a result?
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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Sebudai_sl said:
Other than the 60 countries on Earth who've implemented gun control, reduced the number of guns in their countries, and have a fraction of our gun violence as a result?
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I think you better check your data there. Both the UK and Australia's gun bans are fairly recent (in the last 20 years or so) and neither of them have seen any decrease in violent crime since banning guns. You can't look at 2 completely different cultures and then make declarations based on a single factor. The UK has one of the highest murder rates in Europe despite having close to the fewest guns, while countries in northern Europe have far more guns and far fewer murders.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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BrutulTM_sl said:
I think you better check your data there. Both the UK and Australia's gun bans are fairly recent (in the last 20 years or so) and neither of them have seen any decrease in violent crime since banning guns. You can't look at 2 completely different cultures and then make declarations based on a single factor.
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Yes, but what % of those violent crimes involve guns?
wink.png
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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A fair percentage. But who cares really? Murder is murder.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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BrutulTM_sl said:
A fair percentage. But who cares really? Murder is murder.
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True. But we're all supposed to be outraged by rifles painted black right now! We don't care about the vast number of other things that kill kids more often than tragic random school shootings. We only care about banning assault weapons this week! (Next week we'll go back to banning 32 oz sodas and demanding that some white celebrity apologize for saying something that offended 1 person.)
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

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BrutulTM_sl said:
A fair percentage. But who cares really? Murder is murder.
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Violent crime, sure, but you're missing the point. The point is that when people do flip out, they do it with a knife or a baseball bat or their fists instead of a weapon which can kill a roomful of people in seconds. The point of gun control isn't to reduce to incidents, it's to reduce fatalities.

You still have bikies and gangsters shooting eachother, but fuck them.

The thought of getting shot when they go to school or send their kids to school never even crosses anybody's mind here, as far as gun control is concerned that's success enough for me.
 
N

Numbers_sl

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I just saw a stat from the main American psychology group that said those with mental issues are 11 times more likely to be the victims of violent crime and only cause about 4-5% of all violent crimes.
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

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Just threw this together so there's some actual context and numbers for us to argue about.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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Magic Numbers_sl said:
I just saw a stat from the main American psychology group that said those with mental issues are 11 times more likely to be the victims of violent crime and only cause about 4-5% of all violent crimes.
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To be fair how many times have you wanted to reach through your monitor and punch some posters here who have mental issues?
 
Blakkheim

Blakkheim

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Excidium_sl said:
Looking for punitive damages is the reason the states are always looking to capitalize on some bullshit. All I see on US TV is ads for class action lawsuits, personal claims lawyers, and prescription drugs. Don't you see the problem with those ads? Do we need more self diagnosing idiots who believe these ads because they want the quick fix instead of addressing the real issues? Do you need more people trying to gain millions of dollars in settlements because they're fucking retards who put hot coffee between their fat legs.

No the parents should not receive money from the public because their kids were part of a random act of violence. What happened was not preventable from the schools liability. Its a school, there should be reason to break into it. Do you want your kids to be learn about life in the confines of a locked down, on edge public building? I had a police officer not on duty as an RCMP in my high school. He came to the high school to help students with bullying, drug and alcohol use, and general advice of not being a fuck up. He was a pretty chill, cool guy. He did not carry a weapon.
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The purpose of sueing the hell out of these schools is not to "get me some money". It's to get these schools to change how secure their schools and protect the children that they are responsible for. If you would wake the fuck up and notice, that's the entire problem we are trying to deal with. This is the real issue.
This was absolutely a situation that could have been prevented, or at the very least significantly mitigated, with proper security and protection from the school. This means having someone on the premise that is trained and armed with the capability to stop some fucker like this. If you are going to try and argue that it is not the school's responsibility to secure the school itself, then who's fucking responsibility is it? Are the students just responsible for their own safety?
Everyone wants to act like this is some impossible task to achieve. The town I live in has had a quite a few bank robberies in the last several years. Up until recently I had hardly ever seen any guards at my local bank but I sure do now. These banks with about 10 to 12 employees somehow managed to hire a damn armed guard yet a school with 300-400 students and 50-60 staff members can't I guess.
 
N

Numbers_sl

shitlord
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Tuco_sl said:
To be fair how many times have you wanted to reach through your monitor and punch some posters here who have mental issues?
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Honestly? Only once, way back. I try to assume that everyone is trying to troll all the time so I don't take things very seriously here. I need you guys to let me know when someone is actually crazy.
 
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