Gun control

The problem is not guns. The problem is a fucked up property-worshipping culture that teaches people that it's OK to use lethal force to avenge small slights. A majority of Americans will say that it's perfectly acceptable to shoot a shoplifter, someone who tries to drive off without paying for gas or paying their restaurant bill, graffiti vandal, etc., and this is where the problem is. Now, most of them are probably not willing to pull the trigger themselves on a petty criminal, but they absolutely believe that someone who does is in the right and should not be punished.

This is why we have so many problems with shootings and other countries with tons of guns don't. The mentally unstable individuals havealreadybeen taught that shooting the people that wrong them is acceptable, the only mental leap they have to make to turn into a killer now is misplacing the blame.

If we want to stop shootings, we need to educate people that using a gun is NEVER acceptable unless someone's life is in danger or at least potential danger. That's what they do in Europe, if you went to Switzerland and started talking about how you had the right to shoot a petty thief they'd probably have you committed.

30 years ago, you get in a fist fight with someone and it is over and done with. Now the loser comes back with a posse and bats/knives/guns. We do not have a gun problem, we have a idiot problem.

Yea, vengeance killings are new. It's kinda surprising how long society existed without them. We live in a violent and capricious age.

aychamo_aycono_sl said:

Wife watches nbc every morning (sigh), just suffered through listening to a fucking retarded liberal refer to magazines as clips twice in one blurb. It's amazing how these morons don't have a clue what they are even talking about with an "assault weapon ban."

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I gave my dad some shit the other day when he said clips instead of magazines, but honestly, who cares? Everyone knows exactly what you mean if you say clip instead of magazines, hell I still slip up and say clip sometimes.

Gavinrad_sl said:

I gave my dad some shit the other day when he said clips instead of magazines, but honestly, who cares? Everyone knows exactly what you mean if you say clip instead of magazines, hell I still slip up and say clip sometimes.

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It's just a way of deflecting the argument.

I could care less if normal ppl off the streets say clip vs mag, its not that big of a deal as i get the point... HOWEVER!!! Is it too much to ask that the people writing gun control laws use the right freaking terminology.

Heylel says its a way of deflecting an argument, If you are going to argue against something at least educate yourself.

Illinois gun ban dead for now
Illinois House committee puts off voting on gun ban

Burlington Council Takes Up Gun Ban Resolution

Vermont state statute blocks such bans, but that isn't stopping some Burlington City Council members. They'll consider a strongly-worded resolution that essentially asks for an exception to the state law. They've proposed a charter change that would ban semi-automatic assault weapons and multiple ammunition clips in the city

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Senator Vows To Pass Toughest Assault Weapon Ban In Nation

Cuomo has yet to publicly reveal his gun-control bill, but he has said one is expected as part of his State of the State address Wednesday.
"I think we're on the same page," Klein said, "that we have to do everything possible to ban assault weapons in New York, (as well as) high-capacity magazines, make sure that people with serious mental health issues don't possess guns. And I think that's what we have to do in the state of New York -- pass one of the toughest gun laws in the nation."

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I didn't realize just how retarded the lawmakers behind the attempted ban in Illinois are.

Article_sl said:

It also would ban any semiautomatic pistol that can accept a detachable magazine and has one of five other characteristics, such as aweight exceeding 50 ounces when unloaded.

In addition, it would ban semiautomatic rifles with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 bullets. Also on the list: semiautomatic rifles that accept detachable magazines and have one of three other characteristics,such as a pistol grip or thumbhole stock.

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This is beyond retarded. How many pistols weigh that much unloaded? Is that unloaded with the magazine out? Do accessories such as an underbarrel light count against the weight limit?

Attempting to ban pistol grips/thumbhole stocks is even more equally retarded. Do they not understand that gun furniture is interchangeable, and it would take me a matter of minutes to swap my uncles mini-14 from the wooden rifle furniture to a black plastic setup with a pistol grip and folding stock? Which is completely legal to own, even under the ban?

And hey, lets do absolutely nothing to attempt to control the tens of thousands of illegal handguns in Chicago that are actually being used to commit murder, lets instead focus on weapons that are owned almost exclusively by law abiding citizens.

Xequecal_sl said:

we want to stop shootings, we need to educate people that using a gun is NEVER acceptable unless someone's life is in danger or at least potential danger. That's what they do in Europe, if you went to Switzerland and started talking about how you had the right to shoot a petty thief they'd probably have you committed.

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I grew in a Gun Free City (Athens Greece) and live in an almost Gun Free City (Paris France) so my approach to guns is quite different from the average American.
The main problem is the "US Culture" which made "Guns Cool" and also made "Gun Violence Normal"...
Instead of a "Last Resort Dangerous Tool" guns have become a "normal household item".. oh and by the way, mine is bigger than yours !
I'm willing to bet a 15 year old Swiss and a 15 year old American will have very different reactions if they are given a Firearm...

You live in a society were gun use is "normal" and where "shooting a trespasser is acceptable".
I live in a society were any use of excessive (not to mention lethal force) is instant Jail time. I'm supposed to "respond with at most the same threat level".
Tomorrow if a junkie breaks in my home with knife & needle, and kill him, I'll be doing time, because i used "Excessive Violence/Force".

Banning guns wont prevent Lunatics from killing people (i do admit it will make it a bit harder), Making lunatics into zeroes instead of Media Heroes will help....

America lives in FEAR and PARANOIA of the "EVIL wife raping, children killing, money stealing, home invading criminal" versus whom the only protection is a gun. (Don't ask me why)
I'm willing to bet there's not 1 gun in a 500m ratio around my house, yet, i don't feel "insecure" because of it.

Small questions : If criminals knew victims posed no risk, would they feel threatened into violence ? would they feel the need to use a gun ?
Japan is a counter example...

As for "Guns protecting from rapes" i do not see in a million cases, how can a gun protect you from a rape (unless it's home invasion, and then i still doubt it).

EmiliaEQ_sl said:

I grew in a Gun Free City (Athens Greece) and live in an almost Gun Free City (Paris France) so my approach to guns is quite different from the average American.
The main problem is the "US Culture" which made "Guns Cool" and also made "Gun Violence Normal"...
Instead of a "Last Resort Dangerous Tool" guns have become a "normal household item".. oh and by the way, mine is bigger than yours !
I'm willing to be a 15 year old Swiss and a 15 year old American will have very different reactions if they are given a Firearm...

You live in a society were gun use is "normal" and where "shooting a trespasser is acceptable".
I live in a society were any use of excessive (not to mention lethal force) is instant Jail time. I'm supposed to "respond with at most the same threat level".
Tomorrow if a junkie breaks in my home with knife & needle, and kill him, I'll be doing time, because i used "Excessive Violence/Force".

Banning guns wont prevent Lunatics from killing people (i do admit it will make it a bit harder), Making lunatics into zeroes instead of Media Heroes will help....

America lives in FEAR and PARANOIA of the "EVIL wife raping, children killing, money stealing criminal" versus whom the only protection is a gun. (Don't ask me why)
I'm willing to bet there's not 1 gun in a 500m ratio around my house, yet, i don't feel "insecure" because of it.

Small questions : If criminals knew victims posed no risk, would they feel threatened into violence ? would they feel the need to use a gun ?
Japan is a counter example...

As for "Guns protecting from rapes" i do not see in a million cases, how can a gun protect you from a rape (unless it's home invasion, and then i still doubt it).

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Ignorance is a wonderful thing.

What is it, something like 90% of America's gun crimes happen in the shitty neighborhoods of LA, Chicago, D.C., and New York? And yeah if someone breaks into my house with a knife, I'm going to do my best to kill him, because a knife is a lethal weapon. It sure as hell isn't my fault he chose a cheap and inefficient one.

Stupid Person_sl said:

America lives in FEAR and PARANOIA of the "EVIL wife raping, children killing, money stealing criminal" versus whom the only protection is a gun. (Don't ask me why)

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Yeah the reason you don't want anyone to ask you why is because it's a stupid, made-up, and indefensible claim that you'd have to abandon if anyone asked you to expound on it.

EmiliaEQ_sl said:

Tomorrow if a junkie breaks in my home with knife & needle, and kill him, I'll be doing time, because i used "Excessive Violence/Force".

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so what is the rule, if bad guy has a knife, you can fight him with a knife? lol

EmiliaEQ_sl said:

Small questions : If criminals knew victims posed no risk, would they feel threatened into violence ?

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Considering France has a higher rate of violent crimes, I can say that the state of your victim has nothing at all to do with the violence of the criminal.

Also, as a video linked here shows--there is a correlation between both poverty and urban density in terms of total homicide rates. In France, the most dense urban areas, are also the wealthiest--because your city scape developed in the opposite way of the U.S....You pushed all of your poor outside the city, which had the effect of greatly reducing urban density. This was the same way most of the cities in Europe developed.

However, thanks to our land and a few other different factors, our poor wound up in far denser population centers (Right in the center of the city). Since poverty predispositions people to crime, and we know that population densities beyond a certain point tend to lead to more violent crime, the U.S. produces a pretty potent mix of murder soup. The fact is we just have far more of these very dense, very poor neighborhoods.

You blaming this on guns is fairly myopic, and represents an entirely reactionary response that is not at all grounded in facts. The fact it the French are more violent than the Americans, the difference is that your poor are contained under different conditions than ours, which is why the homicide rate, even among a more violent French populace, is different. As Gavinard said, remove the ghettos of Chicago, Baltimore, LA, Miami and a few other cities, and the U.S. would have a far lower homicide rate than any European country.

EmiliaEQ_sl said:

As for "Guns protecting from rapes" i do not see in a million cases, how can a gun protect you from a rape (unless it's home invasion, and then i still doubt it).

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Well if you "don't see it" I guess they must not prevent rape. I mean you must be a more accredited source than the criminologist and professors who have done peer reviewed studies on the matter and you must have more experience with the situation than all those women who have been victims or potential victims.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-says-yes.html

Paxton Quigley remembers the moment she decided to get a gun. It was more than two decades ago, when a female friend in Los Angeles called her late one night with some terrible news. A stranger had broken into her home through a bathroom window. She had called 911, but the police had arrived too late-a half hour after a brutal rape.

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http://www.freecolorado.com/2000/06/gunsstoprape.html

Using the most detailed statistical regression studies ever compiled on the subject of crime, Yale Professor John Lott found that liberalized concealed carry laws reduced rape by 5.2%.

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http://www.gunblast.com/Gun_Facts.htm

Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes per day are prevented just by showing a handgun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually ever fired.* Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ.

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http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/286900.php

College Student Uses Gun to Prevent Potential Mass Homicide, Rape

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http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Am...inst_rape1.htm

However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information. [see article for further info]

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EmiliaEQ_sl said:

As for "Guns protecting from rapes" i do not see in a million cases, how can a gun protect you from a rape (unless it's home invasion, and then i still doubt it).

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Yeah, your post has changed my views, I'm converted. lol

EmiliaEQ_sl said:

I grew in a Gun Free City (Athens Greece) and live in an almost Gun Free City (Paris France).......

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Enough said....

Now go live in inner city Chicago and see if you feel the same way.....

Tuco_sl said:

How did EU push poor people out of the cities?

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For France, the mechanism was simply very high property value rates combined with property taxes. Which would have happened here as well if it wasn't for a chain of events that lead to a far higher automobile saturation and use (Oil ect), which allowed for our "white flight"--Which lead to a massive drop in property value within the cities, which lead to the government buying property and building housing within the cities (Low cost housing/Ghettos). This social movement happened the opposite way in France, the poor were unable to hold onto the more expensive real estate inside the cities, and the government built housing in rings outside of their cities (Their suburbs) where the property values were far lower, because the wealthy chose not to move there.

So, in France and as far as I know most other EU countries (Dunno about Germany) you have a reverse of the U.S.--Ghettos surround cities, while the cities themselves are full of the affluent.