Here's the link to the statistics video from one page back that will baby you through the whole "England has three times the violent crime as the US even with the bad cities". He even shows the crime statistic websites so you can check the numbers yourselves. It's only been posted a few times in this thread already.
Gun control
- Thread starter Saladus
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opiate82
Bronze Squire
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Good thing someone posted this just a couple of pages back:
Here is another study that does a great break down on the correlation between gun control laws and crime rates. (I like this one because it uses mainly U.S. statistics).
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55534169,d.cGE
So we have a study showing that criminals fear being shot, we have crime statistics showing that gun control laws have a strong correlation with increased crime rates, draw your own conclusions I guess...
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
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No it's not. A magazine is also a feed mechanism, otherwise they're quite similar. "The thing that holds the bullets" is fine for a layman's definition. Politicians aren't gun experts, and I don't care if they conflate the two in conversation.
In legislation? Yes, get it right. Totally agree. What I find asinine is the gun snobbery evident in this thread that's used as a shorthand for ignoring the opposition.
Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
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2nd biggest city in Illinois had 0 murders for the entirety of 2012.
Whats the point of a gun ban again?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...olice-and-city
Whats the point of a gun ban again?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...olice-and-city
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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It's not just snobbery when the legislation is so ignorant and full of bad assumptions of firearm components and their uses.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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truth;
If that doesnt show you the lawmakers in DC are nothing more than idiotic gun grabbers I dont know what will
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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We saw the same shit with Sopa.
And what is really disturbing, is these aren't special cases. Pretty much anything that goes through is full of dumb shit like this. And we just don't pay attention to it.
Politicians are not scientists, etc. They do not know shit about anything, other then talking in public, and getting elected.
This is the second time you have defended this statement. It is absolutely 100% not true. A clip is not a component or part of a firearm, it has nothing to do with a firearm at all. I could care less if someone has clip or mag, it doesnt matter as i get what they are talking about. But dont try to defend your statement to make yourself feel better.
And the only people i have ever seen that truly get bothered by the mag/clip thing are insufferable douches that know very little about firearms in general.
I may be a blithering fool when it comes to economics/politics/maths but i know firearms very well and i expect that anyone who tries to argue at this level to at least get basic terminology correct.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
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I'm not. I'm trying to make the same point that you are: it doesn't fucking matter what you call it. You know what people mean when they say clip, and the only people who get all bothered by it are being douches. Just so.
edit: You must be taking an extremely narrow, technical definition to say a clip isn't part of a firearm. I'm not a gun guy, but I'm pretty sure when googling "firearm clip" and the first thing that pops up is Clip (ammunition) on Wikipedia with a concise description of how it relates to a gun and the confusion between it and a magazine, I can see how people would assume it's fine to use that word.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Fuse
Silver Knight of the Realm
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The clip vs. magazine thing grates because it shows a lack of intellectual rigor. If you are going to be speaking in a professional setting (on tv or otherwise) and have serious ideas about a serious topic and cant even bother to get the basic terminology correct it gives the impression that you dont know what the fuck you are talking about and undermines your arguement even if it is otherwise sound.
Kind of like your and you're or to and too on the googletubes.
Kind of like your and you're or to and too on the googletubes.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
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And lo and behold, they both make the engine go!
I love how this thread is a microcosm of the whole fucking problem. It's not about gun control, it's about gun jargon. Change the parameters of the discussion and you can control the entire argument.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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And lo and behold if it was a subject that you gave a shit about you would be the very first person jumping down someones throat for using the wrong terminology.
Gas=diesel=kerosene=makesenginego!
Gas=diesel=kerosene=makesenginego!
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
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You're the one being technical for no reason dude. There's a level of technical precision beyond what is necessary to have a conversation about a topic. This is one of those instances. I'm all for accurate legislation, but 99% of the time this whole clip/magazine thing is just gun geekery.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
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I absolutely give a shit about gun control (not for it, btw). I absolutely don't give a flying fuck about jargon. You've got me dead to rights.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Except this isnt a argument about a god damn video game and shit not being named properly. Its about people paid extremely well and in charge of making legislation getting the most basic terminology and information about firearms wrong and using that as the basis of their legislation.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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You haven't addressed that the incredible errors made in gun control legislation give foundational reasons to disregard the competency of a pro gun control politician when they mistake a clip and a magazine.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
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Have I not been clear? I'm pretty sure I said I agreed with you and Thorne that legislators should get that shit right in legislation. What I've been talking about the entire time is how gun nerds use clip/magazine as a sorting mechanism for who's allowed to make any argument *at all* relating to guns. If you can't pass the quiz, you don't get an opinion, and that's bullshit. This isn't a matter of basic competency. I can promise you there are plenty of gun owners who use the wrong word all the time. It's just a way of discrediting opinions.
I agree with you on that point. Why is that nerds in general are such insufferable douches!?!? Gun ners, Car ners, gamer nerds... They all make you hate them!
<3 Heylel, as long as you understand why i get upset about the terminology i am happy.
<3 Heylel, as long as you understand why i get upset about the terminology i am happy.