Gun control

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922
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For some reason I doubt there would be many teachers who opt to carry guns to the classroom.

I don't see a problem with there being an option provided the teacher passes some sort of background check / training course. If they let cops carry guns in schools I don't see the issue with qualified and willing teachers doing so.



I thought I mentioned it before, but those statistics include "justified homicide". Ie self defense and police shootings. I'd find it interesting to see how many of those homicides are police shootings.
 

opiate82

Bronze Squire
3,078
5
Statistically speaking number 5 is just fucking stupid. Do you honestly think that bringing guns into a school is a good idea? Giving guns to teachers is a good idea? Understanding that shootings are ANOMALIES- It's not like combating the flu which we know will happen ever year.
The only statistic I have seen regarding this is that the average number of deaths in a mass shooting situation in which the shooter was engaged with by law enforcement is 14. The average number of deaths in a mass shooting situation in which the shooter was engaged with by a civilian with a gun, 2.5.

Also, some states (Utah I believe) already allow teachers to concealed carry at school and I haven't heard of an incident as of yet. Which statistics are speaking of that show allowing teachers to conceal carry is "fucking stupid?"
 

Zodiac

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,200
14
I agree with everything except 5. Teachers do not need to be carrying guns.
What is your suggestion then? Obviously the "gun free zones" are the targets of these attacks.
 
2,199
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So this kind of gets to why my jimmies were so rustled before. It isn't even necessary to be self-conscious about these stats in the first place. There's a very basic ethical argument to be made: it's ridiculous to tell each and every responsible gun owner that they're not allowed to have their hobby because someone else might commit a crime with the same type of weapon. The fact of the matter is, the death rate for guns (yes, even in America) is low enough that a death-rate justification for banning them also legitimizes government prohibition of all kinds of things (including things that are much more obviously "useless" like alcohol and cigarettes). There is a significant burden of justification that must be met in the use of government force (implied or actual) for the purpose of interdiction. Simply pointing at the difference in those numbers and declaring victory doesn't cut it.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,803
Yup, awesome idea. Now student psychos don't even have to steal mom/dad's gun and worry about transporting it both to and into school. Now he can just jump 5'0" 100 pound 55 year old Ms. Appletree and take her gun and blow away half the class. Or grab it from her purse if she's dumb enough not to wear it.

Though I don't have much confidence in the training/ability of the cop that gets assigned to school protection duty, I would assume he has received FAR more training and practical experience than Ms. Appletree's gun course. Ms. Appletree when she spots a student with a gun will most likely panic, shit her pants, and then end up accidentally tagging a few innocent students while she empties her clip.

Armed cops at school.. okay, it's a necessary evil. Arming teachers is so fucking dumb it's mind boggling.



For some reason I doubt there would be many teachers who opt to carry guns to the classroom.

I don't see a problem with there being an option provided the teacher passes some sort of background check / training course. If they let cops carry guns in schools I don't see the issue with qualified and willing teachers doing so.






I thought I mentioned it before, but those statistics include "justified homicide". Ie self defense and police shootings. I'd find it interesting to see how many of those homicides are police shootings.
 

Kinner

Clear eyes. Full Hearts. Can't lose.
276
114
Yup, awesome idea. Now student psychos don't even have to steal mom/dad's gun and worry about transporting it both to and into school. Now he can just jump 5'0" 100 pound 55 year old Ms. Appletree and take her gun and blow away half the class. Or grab it from her purse if she's dumb enough not to wear it.

Though I don't have much confidence in the training/ability of the cop that gets assigned to school protection duty, I would assume he has received FAR more training and practical experience than Ms. Appletree's gun course. Ms. Appletree when she spots a student with a gun will most likely panic, shit her pants, and then end up accidentally tagging a few innocent students while she empties her clip.

Armed cops at school.. okay, it's a necessary evil. Arming teachers is so fucking dumb it's mind boggling.
One possibility someone mentioned was to utilize people in the military. These folks already have some training and we already trust them to protect our nation, why not our children as well?
 
922
3
Yup, awesome idea. Now student psychos don't even have to steal mom/dad's gun and worry about transporting it both to and into school. Now he can just jump 5'0" 100 pound 55 year old Ms. Appletree and take her gun and blow away half the class. Or grab it from her purse if she's dumb enough not to wear it.

Though I don't have much confidence in the training/ability of the cop that gets assigned to school protection duty, I would assume he has received FAR more training and practical experience than Ms. Appletree's gun course. Ms. Appletree when she spots a student with a gun will most likely panic, shit her pants, and then end up accidentally tagging a few innocent students while she empties her clip.

Armed cops at school.. okay, it's a necessary evil. Arming teachers is so fucking dumb it's mind boggling.
You really think an octogenarian teacher would be all gungho about going through a gun qualification course?

This isn't about outright forbidding stuff because somebody might not be qualified, capable, or trustworthy enough to handle a firearm. It's about managing and restricting those who should not own the firearms.

Outright banning a gun will not stop crime.
 

opiate82

Bronze Squire
3,078
5
Arming teachers is so fucking dumb it's mind boggling.
Again, this is already happening in schools and to my knowledge, none of your fears have come to fruition as of yet. Do you have anything other than your hypothetical what if to show it is an idea that is "so fucking dumb it's mind boggling?"
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
Yup, awesome idea. Now student psychos don't even have to steal mom/dad's gun and worry about transporting it both to and into school. Now he can just jump 5'0" 100 pound 55 year old Ms. Appletree and take her gun and blow away half the class. Or grab it from her purse if she's dumb enough not to wear it.

Though I don't have much confidence in the training/ability of the cop that gets assigned to school protection duty, I would assume he has received FAR more training and practical experience than Ms. Appletree's gun course. Ms. Appletree when she spots a student with a gun will most likely panic, shit her pants, and then end up accidentally tagging a few innocent students while she empties her clip.

Armed cops at school.. okay, it's a necessary evil. Arming teachers is so fucking dumb it's mind boggling.
A person forced to conceal carry is worthless in my opinion, but teachers should have the choice. The school can set there own policy on how adequate the training needs to be. There are schools that allow teachers to conceal carry already and to my knowledge this hasn't been an issue. I went to schools that had their own police force in the building which I had no problem with. You could also have a district rotation of armed security in civilian clothing to be unassuming to the students.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
43,739
52,293
Yup, awesome idea. Now student psychos don't even have to steal mom/dad's gun and worry about transporting it both to and into school. Now he can just jump 5'0" 100 pound 55 year old Ms. Appletree and take her gun and blow away half the class. Or grab it from her purse if she's dumb enough not to wear it.

Though I don't have much confidence in the training/ability of the cop that gets assigned to school protection duty, I would assume he has received FAR more training and practical experience than Ms. Appletree's gun course. Ms. Appletree when she spots a student with a gun will most likely panic, shit her pants, and then end up accidentally tagging a few innocent students while she empties her clip.

Armed cops at school.. okay, it's a necessary evil. Arming teachers is so fucking dumb it's mind boggling.
Christ you're fucking stupid. Nobody is talking about forcing teachers to carry, they're talking about giving them the option. Why do you post in this thread anyway?
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,803
Who fucking said anything about banning guns? Also, good job on literally interpreting that scenario as the de facto standard. Ok, let's use my ex GF the English teacher. Scrawny 30 year old chick that has 16 year old football players in her class capable of snapping her in two with one hand. Better? Also, I don't know that old people liked guns less that young people..

There is no evidence to this "hypothetical" because there is no precedence of any significant duration of something so stupid being done before. It's a goddamn foregone conclusion. You allow teachers who take some lame gun course and load up with guns it's only a matter of time before they get stolen and either used against the teacher or students. Hell, I remember some vicious arguments between student/teachers back in high school and I shudder to think what the outcome may have been if the teacher was armed.

Jesus, do you people record Fox News on your DVR?


You really think an octogenarian teacher would be all gungho about going through a gun qualification course?

This isn't about outright forbidding stuff because somebody might not be qualified, capable, or trustworthy enough to handle a firearm. It's about managing and restricting those who should not own the firearms.

Outright banning a gun will not stop crime.
 

General Antony

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
1,147
4,802
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/col...ricans_guns-0/

A+ reason why no legislators should listen to the faggots around here.

These days, there are few things to admire about the socialist, bankrupt and culturally degenerating USA, but at least so far, one thing remains: the right to bear arms and use deadly force to defend one's self and possessions.

This will probably come as a total shock to most of my Western readers, but at one point, Russia was one of the most heavily armed societies on earth. This was, of course, when we were free under the Tsar. Weapons, from swords and spears to pistols, rifles and shotguns were everywhere, common items. People carried them concealed, they carried them holstered. Fighting knives were a prominent part of many traditional attires and those little tubes criss crossing on the costumes of Cossacks and various Caucasian peoples? Well those are bullet holders for rifles.

Various armies, such as the Poles, during the ????? (Times of Troubles), or Napoleon, or the Germans even as the Tsarist state collapsed under the weight of WW1 and Wall Street monies, found that holding Russian lands was much much harder than taking them and taking was no easy walk in the park but a blood bath all its own. In holding, one faced an extremely well armed and aggressive population Hell bent on exterminating or driving out the aggressor.

This well armed population was what allowed the various White factions to rise up, no matter how disorganized politically and militarily they were in 1918 and wage a savage civil war against the Reds. It should be noted that many of these armies were armed peasants, villagers, farmers and merchants, protecting their own. If it had not been for Washington's clandestine support of and for the Reds, history would have gone quite differently.

Moscow fell, for example, not from a lack of weapons to defend it, but from the lying guile of the Reds. Ten thousand Reds took Moscow and were opposed only by some few hundreds of officer cadets and their instructors. Even then the battle was fierce and losses high. However, in the city alone, at that time, lived over 30,000 military officers (both active and retired), all with their own issued weapons and ammunition, plus tens of thousands of other citizens who were armed. The Soviets promised to leave them all alone if they did not intervene. They did not and for that were asked afterwards to come register themselves and their weapons: where they were promptly shot.

Of course being savages, murderers and liars does not mean being stupid and the Reds learned from their Civil War experience. One of the first things they did was to disarm the population. From that point, mass repression, mass arrests, mass deportations, mass murder, mass starvation were all a safe game for the powers that were. The worst they had to fear was a pitchfork in the guts or a knife in the back or the occasional hunting rifle. Not much for soldiers.

To this day, with the Soviet Union now dead 21 years, with a whole generation born and raised to adulthood without the SU, we are still denied our basic and traditional rights to self defense. Why? We are told that everyone would just start shooting each other and crime would be everywhere....but criminals are still armed and still murdering and too often, especially in the far regions, those criminals wear the uniforms of the police. The fact that everyone would start shooting is also laughable when statistics are examined.

While President Putin pushes through reforms, the local authorities, especially in our vast hinterland, do not feel they need to act like they work for the people. They do as they please, a tyrannical class who knows they have absolutely nothing to fear from a relatively unarmed population. This in turn breeds not respect but absolute contempt and often enough, criminal abuse.

For those of us fighting for our traditional rights, the US 2nd Amendment is a rare light in an ever darkening room. Governments will use the excuse of trying to protect the people from maniacs and crime, but are in reality, it is the bureaucrats protecting their power and position. In all cases where guns are banned, gun crime continues and often increases. As for maniacs, be it nuts with cars (NYC, Chapel Hill NC), swords (Japan), knives (China) or home made bombs (everywhere), insane people strike. They throw acid (Pakistan, UK), they throw fire bombs (France), they attack. What is worse, is, that the best way to stop a maniac is not psychology or jail or "talking to them", it is a bullet in the head, that is why they are a maniac, because they are incapable of living in reality or stopping themselves.

The excuse that people will start shooting each other is also plain and silly. So it is our politicians saying that our society is full of incapable adolescents who can never be trusted? Then, please explain how we can trust them or the police, who themselves grew up and came from the same culture?

No it is about power and a total power over the people. There is a lot of desire to bad mouth the Tsar, particularly by the Communists, who claim he was a tyrant, and yet under him we were armed and under the progressives disarmed. Do not be fooled by a belief that progressives, leftists hate guns. Oh, no, they do not. What they hate is guns in the hands of those who are not marching in lock step of their ideology. They hate guns in the hands of those who think for themselves and do not obey without question. They hate guns in those whom they have slated for a barrel to the back of the ear.

So, do not fall for the false promises and do not extinguish the light that is left to allow humanity a measure of self respect.
 
922
3
Who fucking said anything about banning guns? Also, good job on literally interpreting that scenario as the de facto standard. Ok, let's use my ex GF the English teacher. Scrawny 30 year old chick that has 16 year old football players in her class capable of snapping her in two with one hand. Better? Also, I don't know that old people liked guns less that young people..

There is no evidence to this "hypothetical" because there is no precedence of any significant duration of something so stupid being done before. It's a goddamn foregone conclusion. You allow teachers who take some lame gun course and load up with guns it's only a matter of time before they get stolen and either used against the teacher or students. Hell, I remember some vicious arguments between student/teachers back in high school and I shudder to think what the outcome may have been if the teacher was armed.

Jesus, do you people record Fox News on your DVR?
You do realize people here are talking about qualification a course right? Not just "hey you're a teacher here's a gun".

You are showing how uninformed you are right now. People have mentioned before that some schools have had armed teachers for years without a problem. These hypothetical unqualified teachers who do not know how to use guns that you fear aren't itching to lock and load in a classroom.

I don't see what this has to do with fox news or being republican (which I'm not). This is people discussing ways to manage risk in schools. All you've done so far is parrot something you heard on the media about how "guns are dangerous". You haven't mentioned one idea in this thread so far.
 
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Actually if you ignore the dumbass claim that the US is socialist, it's a decent piece about what happens when you disarm a society.
I actually did read it; I just like harassing GA. You're right, though. If you peel back the crazy, there is a decent lesson there. However, you could learn the same lesson by looking at the lessons of the black army (making the argument genuinely populist instead of this reactionary white-army supporting feux-populist nonsense ).
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
Who fucking said anything about banning guns? Also, good job on literally interpreting that scenario as the de facto standard. Ok, let's use my ex GF the English teacher. Scrawny 30 year old chick that has 16 year old football players in her class capable of snapping her in two with one hand. Better? Also, I don't know that old people liked guns less that young people..

There is no evidence to this "hypothetical" because there is no precedence of any significant duration of something so stupid being done before. It's a goddamn foregone conclusion. You allow teachers who take some lame gun course and load up with guns it's only a matter of time before they get stolen and either used against the teacher or students. Hell, I remember some vicious arguments between student/teachers back in high school and I shudder to think what the outcome may have been if the teacher was armed.

Jesus, do you people record Fox News on your DVR?
Did you just build a case as to why your GF should conceal carry? My guess is that you probably didn't mean to. If one of those students did have a vendetta against her, how would she protect herself otherwise? Secondly, there's a reason why it's called conceal carry. You're not supposed to broadcast you have the firearm. Chances are the students would find her completely unassuming.
 

Haast

Lord Nagafen Raider
3,281
1,636
I'm on the fence on this one. Armed staff should be a huge deterrent to potential shooters since any given adult in the school could have a gun. You'd think it would also make the kids a little more hesitant to start shit with teachers, an added bonus.

On the downside, there's the "kid gets the gun from teacher" scenario, as well as a teacher possibly losing their shit and brandishing/firing a gun at the class.

However unlikely those may be, if either happened the media would go apeshit covering it, turning it into a total PR nightmare for any district allowing teachers to carry.